The Rodding Roundtable
Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: Flipper on March 25, 2009, 08:54:28 PM
What is the best thing you can do with a rotted out 1954 four door Cadillac and a wrecked 1960 Jaguar MK2?
Build a boat tail speedster!!!
First you gotta cut the roof off the Cadillac!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/caddy-parts-web.jpg)
Then cut the skin free. ....and slice that down the middle
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0546.jpg)
Then cut apart some old porch posts to recycle the free 1x1 tubing. Bend that into a shape that follows the curve of the roof. What the heck bend it so it makes the shape of a 30's Indy car.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0549.jpg)
Prop up half a roof and see what it looks like
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0547.jpg)
I can see it. ....keep going.
Throw the first subrail away and make 2 that have smoother curves. Prop up both sides, plop a cushion wher the seat will be and make race car noises.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0581.jpg)
Study the shape and draw where the cut out needs to be.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0585.jpg)
Grow some balls and quarter the roof
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0589.jpg)
Its starting to look like a race car now!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0594.jpg)
Part out the jag. Take the engine, trans, radiator, driveshaft, rear axle, front spindles, knock-off wire wheels, steering parts, gauges, switches, and title.
Plop the major parts down and see how they are gonna work with the new racecar body.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0568.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0570.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0576.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0577.jpg)
Keep the pics coming, I'm interested. I'm building something similar; taking a different route, but going to the same place.
Realize the fancy overdrive trans is big in the wrong places. Shifter wrong. Driveshaft too short. Swap trans out for a non-OD model. Scrub off 40 years of grime first.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0580.jpg)
Wait for the next chance to work on the car.
FYI....This is the kind of stuff that inspired me to look at a Cadillac like that.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/2621285919_f1f8cb39d5_b.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/2622155454_30e51faec4_b.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Granatelli20Indy20car20Cincy201-8-0.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0403-1.jpg)
I would have never thought to use a big car roof to make a body like that . What a neat idea!
Lovin this thread. Keep the updates coming.
I've got a left over 3.5L Jag DOHC 6 that needs a wrapper. I was thinking even like model A RPU.
Very interesting idea and a different way of getting there. I agree with others....keep the updates coming. :D
i keep looking at this project... and i keep thinking about the exposed rear tires... and if the rear quarter panels and tail lights sections still exist..
might be able to make up some neat wheel pants for the rears...
again... this is just a thought...
I didn't get nearly as much done as I had hoped.
The plywood sheet worked OK for mock-up, but it wasn't working well enough to build a real car.
I have a work bench that is almost big enough to build on, but it is buried under 4 years of grinder dust and misc accumulations. Half a day was spent cleaning off the table.
Finally got the table cleared an my subrails on the table. Table is about two feet too short for the body to fit. No problem. I built an outrigger to support the point of the boat tail.
Time to start building body structure out of 1x1. Square tubing may be great for building boxes, but it sucks for the complex shapes in this car. Got one hoop done in the rear body and tried to make a hoop for the cowl. Succeded in making lots of scrap out of 1x1 . On to plan B.
Make the cowl from 16 gauge flat sheet. This was my first real project with the horrible freight shrinker/stretcher. I think it went well. I think it would have been easier if I made my angle 1x1 instead of 1.5x1.5 (oh well).
Here are the pics.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0638.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0635.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0642.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0640.jpg)
Did some to the cowl today. Dash is gonna be high (33" from floor in center). I should be able to get away with a 4 inch tall windshield.
or however tall these little things are. (I'll make something similar)
(http://www.xks.com/includes/getImage.asp?filename=images%5Clarge%5C17-1950.jpg)
Dealing with dial-up at parent's house. Only three pics for now. Kinda hard to tell what is going on, but the body flares out at the dash. Dash is 49" at widest point. Firewall is 43" wide.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0655.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0670.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0653.jpg)
A few more
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0654.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0662.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0656.jpg)
Saturday morning, I played with a roll of masking tape.....trying to convince myself that the shape was right.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0673.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0674.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0681.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0679.jpg)
The door cut out didn't seem quite right. We played with that some more. I was actually moving my door piece and dad stopped me mid-move. He said "you found it". This is what we ended up with. Dad thinks it looks like a WW1 airplane. Drivers side seat has been cut back 6 more inches or so.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0689.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0686.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0687.jpg)
Looks better. Had to see how it felt. Feels nice.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0685.jpg)
So now that it starts to look like a car....what are you supposed to do?
Tear it all apart and work on the frame.
Did I mention that I was thinking about building this car as a unibody?
All of the 1x1 will be boxed in with sheetmetal.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0690.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0691.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0693.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0692.jpg)
My high tech tubing bender.
A big gear used as a radius and a stop welded to the side of the table. Put the end of the tubing under the stop and push down on the tubing.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0695.jpg)
Adding diagonals is a pain. They have to be curved so that match the horizontal pieces. Chassis should be plenty stout though.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0697.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0701.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0702.jpg)
Door swoop goes down to the frame / truss thingy.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0706.jpg)
Has anybody here ever built a car from scratch with no real plans? ....given yourself true artistic liberty?
I have a "list" of ideas and a huge library of influences of what makes a cool vintage racer, but nothing is down on paper. I have also given myself permission to change it if it needs to be changed.
It went from this
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0678.jpg)
to this in a matter of moments
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0689.jpg)
I think it works.
Right now the rear suspension/frame layout is a blank canvas from the seats back.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0709.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0703.jpg)
The rear of the car will be built around the suspension.
I have thought about a triangulated 4 link with the bottom bars on the outside of the body (attaching at the node just ahead of the quarter panel skin). The uppers would be inside the body.
I have also considered hairpins attaching at the same general location.
What would you build if you were not constrained by a traditional frame/floor layout?
Quote from: "Flipper"
The rear of the car will be built around the suspension.
I have thought about a triangulated 4 link with the bottom bars on the outside of the body (attaching at the node just ahead of the quarter panel skin). The uppers would be inside the body.
I have also considered hairpins attaching at the same general location.
What would you build if you were not constrained by a traditional frame/floor layout?
You could try this arrangement from a D type Jag
(http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~tech/dtype3.jpg)
That would make it a Satchell Link, correct?
The car looks great, what an amazingly creative project. I love the antique racer vibe. If I get you right you're going to cover inside and outside of the framework with sheet to make your unibody? That should make it pretty strong.
Quote from: "PeterR"Quote from: "Flipper"
The rear of the car will be built around the suspension.
I have thought about a triangulated 4 link with the bottom bars on the outside of the body (attaching at the node just ahead of the quarter panel skin). The uppers would be inside the body.
I have also considered hairpins attaching at the same general location.
What would you build if you were not constrained by a traditional frame/floor layout?
You could try this arrangement from a D type Jag
(http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~tech/dtype3.jpg)
Went looking for another picture and found this. It looks like it is a "parallel 4 link" with 2 extra triangulated lower bars for locating side to side.
Also, I didn't see springs. Did the Jag have torsion bars?
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/rearsusp.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/23.jpg)
Quote from: "jaybee"That would make it a Satchell Link, correct?
The car looks great, what an amazingly creative project. I love the antique racer vibe. If I get you right you're going to cover inside and outside of the framework with sheet to make your unibody? That should make it pretty strong.
Yep, that is what the current plan is. It should be pretty stout once everything is braced and boxed in..
The sides are 14 inches tall and growing.
Will the skins be welded, or riveted, to the framework ?
Quote from: "unklian"Will the skins be welded, or riveted, to the framework ?
I had planned on welding them. ....but rivets would look cool.
I have never riveted anything before and I am not sure my fabrication is to the point where I wont have to bondo.
Interesting and very unique--makes a person sit back and think
Quote from: "reborn55"Interesting and very unique--makes a person sit back and think
It has definetly been fun. It is fun to think outside the box. .....and amazingly inexpensive to build so far.
rear suspension... i just saw somewhere a triangle upper control arm that the single point mounts to the top of the rear end... this arrangement might keep a lot of the rear suspension inside the rear body...
if the upper arm is properly triangulated... you might be able to run a single coil over to support the rear end of the car... all tucked inside the body...
with only lower control arms sticking out in the air...
maybe i will work on a picture...
On that Jag rear suspension, the plate type "control" arm next to the wheel is actually a torsion arm connected to a torsion bar that sets crosswise in the frame. This is exactly the same setup ( hint coming) VW used.
i am totally out of practice in digital drawing...
i don't know how this will work... might just work... maybe not... just an idea...
of course.. using the torsion bars to support the rear of the car.. the upper control arm.. if needed would only need 3 points to keep the rear end centered.. not 4... which would be the supporting link...
second thought... this might make for a weird rear handling .. as the roll center would be really high...
i can see it in my mind... but i cannot figure out if it would be a good thing or bad thing...
again.. this is just a thought... just something to keep the rear suspension tucked inside the body... with only minimum suspension sticking out.. like a magician ...
Flipper: did you save any of the original Jag rear suspension arms ?
Wayne, if I understand the arrangement you've drawn I think what you actually end up with is a zero roll stiffness suspension. People have experimented with them for years in sports car club-level racing and the like but as far as I know it has never seen much application. All the roll stiffness either comes at the other end of the chassis or through the antiroll bar.
Quote from: "jaybee"Wayne, if I understand the arrangement you've drawn I think what you actually end up with is a zero roll stiffness suspension. People have experimented with them for years in sports car club-level racing and the like but as far as I know it has never seen much application. All the roll stiffness either comes at the other end of the chassis or through the antiroll bar.
my idea was to be able to fit all the suspension inside the rear of the body... out of sight... with only the lower rods sticking out of the side of the car..
as for the roll center... i know it will need some kind of anti sway bar.. something narrow like off the front of a ranger 4x4 pick up.. it is already flattened and drilled.. so rods to the rear end would do...
the roll center i was thinking of is the point where the body swings from in a corner... if the center point is above the center of gravity.. the car will body will try to lean into the turn... if it is below the center of gravity.. the car will lean out in a turn...
the point is moot anyway...
Super cool build!
Quote from: "unklian"Flipper: did you save any of the original Jag rear suspension arms ?
Yes. I have them. The uppers are tube links with rubber bushings on each end. The lowers are leaf springs.
It was used kinda like a quarter eliptic, but the whole spring was there.
So, what are the opinions on building a car without a traditional style frame under it?
Too early in the build to pass judgement?
Is this thing just too far out there?
There will be lots more angles installed before the plating begins. Some of the plating will probably be bead rolled for even more strength (and style).
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0703.jpg)
I think if it was me, I would skin the inside of your truss with 16 ga. steel. Then it would be strong enough to fasten suspension points to. I would plug weld it about every two inches.
Quote from: "enjenjo"I think if it was me, I would skin the inside of your truss with 16 ga. steel. Then it would be strong enough to fasten suspension points to. I would plug weld it about every two inches.
Yep, I have a sheet of 16 gauge for skinning the trusses. And some 1/8 sheet for gusseting the higher stressed points.
Still following this thread with great interest; especially now with talk turning to space frames.
I'm cultivating a scheme to build a vintage looking, 3 wheel "cyclecar" using the engine and rear drive from a big displacement, water cooled, shaft drive donorcycle.
Flipper, I gotta say your my kinda guy. Doing a scratch build -and a car like this- with stuff on hand and minimal cost.
And your shop has that crap-everywhere-mark-of-genius-at-work thing goin on too! :mrgreen:
QuoteAnd your shop has that crap-everywhere-mark-of-genius-at-work thing goin on too!
I guess that makes me an Einstein.
Quote from: "enjenjo"QuoteAnd your shop has that crap-everywhere-mark-of-genius-at-work thing goin on too!
I guess that makes me an Einstein.
I must confess, you came to mind also when I typed that comment.
My shop is a little "cluttered", too. And, like Albert, I failed algebra. Gee, do you suppose........ naw forget it.
Quote from: "enjenjo"QuoteAnd your shop has that crap-everywhere-mark-of-genius-at-work thing goin on too!
I guess that makes me an Einstein.
I'm thinking more like a beer stein.
You'll be amazed at how much strength the welded on skin will add to your structure. I'm collecting parts for a similar project. Boxes? boxes? we don't need no stinkin boxes. I like it. Jbird
Quote from: "enjenjo"
I guess that makes me an Einstein.
Was there ever any doubt ?
Quote from: "unklian"Quote from: "enjenjo"
I guess that makes me an Einstein.
Was there ever any doubt ?
So since I am in the midst of a major cleanup, will that make me dumber?
Quote from: "enjenjo"
I guess that makes me an Einstein.
Yeah, but you're Frank Einstein --- Albert was the genius! ...He was also shorter and better looking, without the pins through his neck!
Quote from: "Bruce Dorsi"Quote from: "enjenjo"
I guess that makes me an Einstein.
Yeah, but you're Frank Einstein --- Albert was the genius! ...He was also shorter and better looking, without the pins through his neck!
just for grins i did a search for frank einstein and found this
Madman (aka Frank Einstein) is not your average hero
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman
later jim
Quote from: "enjenjo"Quote from: "unklian"Quote from: "enjenjo"
I guess that makes me an Einstein.
Was there ever any doubt ?
So since I am in the midst of a major cleanup, will that make me dumber?
Is Fatcat helping you?
:D
QuoteIs Fatcat helping you?
No, he throws away too much.
We definetly don't waste much time straightening up the shop.
Quote from: "Flipper"We definetly don't waste much time straightening up the shop.
what kind of car belongs to the grill shell behind the special?
later jim
Quote from: "river1"Quote from: "Flipper"We definetly don't waste much time straightening up the shop.
what kind of car belongs to the grill shell behind the special?
later jim
A 1938 Seagrave firetruck.
I also have 3 others 1940, 1947, 1950. I was on a Seagrave kick a couple of years ago.
Quote from: "Flipper"Quote from: "river1"Quote from: "Flipper"We definetly don't waste much time straightening up the shop.
what kind of car belongs to the grill shell behind the special?
later jim
A 1938 Seagrave firetruck.
I also have 3 others 1940, 1947, 1950. I was on a Seagrave kick a couple of years ago.
COOL
Quote from: "Flipper"It looks like it is a "parallel 4 link" with 2 extra triangulated lower bars for locating side to side.
Also, I didn't see springs. Did the Jag have torsion bars?
Yes it has parallel four bars made from flat bar. Sideways location is by an A shaped link with the base of the A hinged off the body and the apex connected to a pivot at the bottom of the diff pumpkin. This places the roll centre at an ideal height for a performance vehicle.
As enjenjo has said, the suspesion has a transverse torsion bar operating on the lower set of trailing arms.
At first sight this set up it looks like it would easy to build up from VW components. A few years ago I looked at it more closely and found all sorts of pesky hurdles.
The VW engine and transaxle overhangs behind the rear axle and this means the load or the rear wheels is much more than you would expect for a vehicle of that size. The torsion bars are much too heavy for the rear a small front engine vehicle with live axle.
Also, on the Jag the torsion arm plate tapers towards the rear, but on the VW is quite deep at the rear end to allow enough room for the bolt PCD where the flange of the wheel bearing assembly bolts on. This does not really matter but it does look clumsy, and the steel is so tough it would be a real chore to trim it down.
The front suspension looked promising because the two transverse tubes could provide the pivots for the upper and lower sets of radius arms. Also, the tubes have sleeve bearings at the ends for the arms, and these provide very accurate location. The load on the front wheels of a VW is quite low because the engine and transaxle cantilever behind the rear axle, so it would seem the torsion bars might be about right for the rear of a lightweight front engine vehicle. Now the hitch. The front trailing arms are very short, and for this application would have to be made about four times the standard length. The longer arms have the effect of making the torsion bars far too soft.
The vans have stiffer torsions to carry the higher payload, but the transverse tube assembly has a V shape so is not suitable for the application under discussion.
Fitting heavier bars to the sedan front is not real easy as the standard torsion "bars" are not solid bars, but are laminated from flat strips of spring steel to make up a square cross section that fits into a square anchor hole in the middle of the cross tube. The tubes would need new splined anchor blocks welded in, custom bars, and specially fabricated trailing arms.
It appeared to me to be just as easy to start from scratch.
*, I've exceeded my monthly bandwidth allowance for my free photobucket account.
That is the first time it has happened.
I guess I have to wait 12 more days to do an update.
Quote from: "Flipper"
I guess I have to wait 12 more days to do an update.
OR get an account with another pic hosting site.
Pictures are back. I upgraded my photobucket account.
I've been thinking about what I am going to do to it this weekend....
I think I made it too big. I may narrow and shorten the cowl. It looks really big in some of those pics.
I think I am also going to play with the size of the passenger compartment opening. I think the dash may need to come back...or move the seat up just a little.
Oh, and I think I am going three link on the rear suspension.
Can you drag it outside, to get a better look at it from a distance ?
Quote from: "unklian"Can you drag it outside, to get a better look at it from a distance ?
Yeah, what Unk said.
Photos can be very unreliable for proportions.
It will look smaller when it's down on the ground, instead of up on a table.
Quote from: "unklian"It will look smaller when it's down on the ground, instead of up on a table.
You are probably right.
When I first mocked it up, it seemed the right size.
I decided to try and see how the stock jag rear suspension fit. It fits better than I thought it would. I don't think the springs would have cleared the last set of verticle pieces.
Not really sure how the springs are supposed to be mounted. Dad pulled the rear suspension out of the jag. At the time, I had no plans to use anything except the axle. Anybody got any good ideas?
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0719.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0720.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0727.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0728.jpg)
Finally figured out how the stock jag suspension worked....I think.
It pivoted on the lower half of the spring pin. The upper half was mounted in rubber such that the pin couldn't catch anything. as the spring cycled, the top portion of the spring pack could move front to back.
Here is my attempt to immitate the function.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0731.jpg)
more almost free material was used for my spring boxes. ....cop car roll bars that dad bought at an auction. I used the 1/8" panel at the bottom.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0730.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0733.jpg)
I overlapped the tops so I'd have double thickness on top.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0734.jpg)
The insert captures the spring pin. It is secured by four 3/8" bolts and really beefs up the spring box when it is all bolted tight.
Here's how the box fits into the overall car. The box I just made made will be behind the seat. The front bucket (upside down box) will be under the seat.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0738.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0740.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0741.jpg)
Here is a view that shows the eurothane bushing inside the box. It sits over the spring pin.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0739.jpg)
Still have a lot of figuring out to do. the nuts will be welded to the side of the box to make it easier to re-assemble in a finished car. Need to remeber to keep the bolts accesible when I build more of the rear bulkhead.
If you haven't guessed, these boxes are going to be tied into the frame/sides/floor and heavily supported.
These boxes to way longer to figure out than I would have ever guessed.
Quote from: "Flipper"If you haven't guessed, these boxes are going to be tied into the frame/sides/floor and heavily supported.
These boxes to way longer to figure out than I would have ever guessed.
I had figured that out. Should be fairly easy to tie that all into the space frame.
I got my other spring box put together and started looking at how to anchor the top links and came to the conclusion that I needed more beef in my framework. I am adding some 1.5 x 1.5 front to back in a more conventional frame like position. I am also installed a 1.5 x 1.5 crossmember ahead of the forward spring support to provide additional support for the front of the spring. There will still be an angle added from the link mount to the front back tube.
This about where I thought I was going to get to last weekend.
I feel a lot more comfortable with the extra beef.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0762.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0761.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0768.jpg)
Since I am not sure exactly what spring rate I have, I built some adjustability in for the top links.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0759.jpg)
Are you thinking you'll have to remove spring leaves because your car will be less weight than the Jag's?
Quote from: "Mac"Are you thinking you'll have to remove spring leaves because your car will be less weight than the Jag's?
Yes. The spring feels stiff to be in free state, but dad said that he thought the spring was almost flat in the MK2 at ride height. I am probably going to have to tweak it when the wheels hit the ground. I'm just not sure which way(raise or lower).
Next weekend, I will add a diagonal for the link mounts and mount the spring boxes (verticle wall at back, angled wall at front and tied to the frame sideways down low).
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0770.jpg)
Hopefully after that, the pace will pick back up.
Might be overkill but to me it looks like you could put some diagonals in top view from the ends of your longitudinal 1.5x1.5 pieces to a point further forward on the frame. The purpose of that would be to spread the area where drive force is applied into your space frame to prevent concentrating load at one point.
Quote from: "jaybee"Might be overkill but to me it looks like you could put some diagonals in top view from the ends of your longitudinal 1.5x1.5 pieces to a point further forward on the frame. The purpose of that would be to spread the area where drive force is applied into your space frame to prevent concentrating load at one point.
I'm not finished with those yet. They are actually going to run forward all the way to the front suspension crossmember.
It was not going to be a straight shot shot, it was going to require some zig zags so I went ahead and ran the sections where I was working at the time.
Here are the pics of the boxes getting welded in.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0775.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0776.jpg)
The link mount needs support. I will also tie the boxes in to these.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0778.jpg)
Stuff is too crowded to get to all seams. I cut the tube apart. Some of the welds are on the inside. After these welds are done, the tube gets put back together. Fun!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0779.jpg)
Tubes put back together
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0786.jpg)
Boxes tied to the diagonal
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0787.jpg)
Pics of loading the suspension
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0792.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0793.jpg)
1952 Mercedes gas tank looks like it will work for this car. Yes, it was just laying around.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0782.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0784.jpg)
It should clear the links OK and has a little bit of clearance for the diff. Fuel inlet will work with a racecar style cap on the top of the boattail.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0783.jpg)
This is where I ended the day. I plated in the opening above the boxes. I feels really solid.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0797.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0796.jpg)
With any luck, I will re-hang the rear quarters and decide on what the next build step.
Not sure exactly what to do next.
I think I need to start the rearmost frame section/trunk floor. I think I need to start the upwards taper of the boattail at the rear axle...similar to this car.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/boattails/normal_4748-2.jpg)
Today was a fun day. I finished up a little welding on the passenger side spring box and then started trying to mount the body side.
It was more difficult than last time. There is an axle there.
I started by mocking the body up on top of the axle and blocks of wood to see where stuff lined up.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0798.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0801.jpg)
I am glad that I thought to draw a reference line last time it was mocked up.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0800.jpg)
First set of dimensions....end cut out was WAY different.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0802.jpg)
The first cuts were barely a good starting point. I am glad I started slow and snuck up on the shape. The axle moves rearward as it compresses.....really moves rearward! That parking brake cable was kind of a pain too.
Lots of jacking and drawing, then triming and re-instalation.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0803.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0805.jpg)
Final shape. I think.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0808.jpg)
I know the tail sticks way out there and will drag everything, but I can not make myself cut the heck out of it for clearance. I think I am just going to beef up the tail so it can handle being dragged. I may even add a caster back there.
Here is the current idea. Slight sweep with a radius at the bottom.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0823.jpg)
Right now the whole back end is an almost clean sheet to work with
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0815.jpg)
Playing with cop car roll bars and a harbor freight pipe bender
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0818.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0820.jpg)
I trimmed the tube. kinda hard to do just by eyeballing it. Still needs a little fine tuning....but I think it will work.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0824.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0825.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0828.jpg)
Close enough that I made another one for the other side.
The new rear frame rails will be on the same level as the current 1x1. I just haven't cut out the old stuff yet.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0831.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0832.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0837.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0838.jpg)
I am using more cop car roll bar parts to complete the rear frame rails. Using a couple of bends, I will be able to clear the shock mounts and tie into the 1.5 x 1.5 that runs below the upper link mounts. The joint will be mitered.
This will also gime me a "crumple zone" for the rear frame rails. Heaven forbid I take a hit or spin out in it, the 90 degree bends should fold.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0835.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0834.jpg)
Well, it looks plenty strong enough.
Quote from: "enjenjo"Well, it looks plenty strong enough.
It is kinda hard to quit adding material and welds. ....more steel is better, right?
boy, you have gotten a lot done since all the parts came off that trailer. i look forward to all your posts . kinda gets your blood flowing watching this thing unfold. cant wait for more :D
Quote from: "tompeters"boy, you have gotten a lot done since all the parts came off that trailer. i look forward to all your posts . kinda gets your blood flowing watching this thing unfold. cant wait for more :D
It feels like it should be a lot farther along by now. I guess a lot of time was "wasted" thinking out the rear suspension. I could have done a parrallel 4 link or hairpins in a day. Heck, there has been a lot of sitting and staring at stuff (looking for inspiration) since day one of this project.
I don't think I am going to bump into one just like it at the grocery store.
here i thought i was the only one sitting and staring :lol: my daughter and granddaughter try not to let me see them when they watch me watching my falcon, but they laugh too loud to be sneaky
What do you guys think about adding a single-seat rumble seat in the boat-tail? Gas tank would be mounted behind the rear end. Feet would straddle the driveshaft (yes it will have protection).
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/rumbleseat.jpg)
looks like theres plenty of room ,but it might feel kinda creepy riding over the rear end and next to the fuel. do you think it would feel like the last seat on a roller coaster? only kidding :wink: so far im enjoying the view. rear seat would work easily .
Quote from: "Flipper"What do you guys think about adding a single-seat rumble seat in the boat-tail? Gas tank would be mounted behind the rear end. Feet would straddle the driveshaft (yes it will have protection).
I vote for sticking with the early racer theme; 2 seater.
I did more work on the rear of the body. It took a lot of fitting, but I finally got the tubes ready to weld.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0860.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0859.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0868.jpg)
And trimmed the other quarter so that it will fit over the axle.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0870.jpg)
I also played around with the rumble seat idea some more. There is room to do it.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0855.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0872.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0873.jpg)
More work on the rear framework today. I added some diagonals. They hug the body really nice.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0875.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0876.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0879.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0881.jpg)
Played around with sticking a 8 gallon fuel cell in the back (so I could do a 3rd seat). It fits pretty good. If I don't add the seat, I will still have one heck of a trunk back there. Not 100% sure 8 gallons will be enough though.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0882.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0894.jpg)
I also added some diagonals to the passenger compartment to help support the rear diagonals. This thing is slowly turning into a battleship.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0887.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0893.jpg)
I also got around to trimming the passenger side door opening.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0898.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0897.jpg)
....and played with adding a wheel under the tail.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0886.jpg)
...and trimed the tail a little more. Not 100% there, but closer. I'm sneaking up on it.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0890.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0891.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0892.jpg)
WOW. That is COOL! I love the look.
I have a little bit more to do to the rear frame. I want to add a second horizontal tube at the very end. It will be lighter weight material than the cop car stuff.
I would have done it this weekend, but I wanted to put more thought into the vertical piece at the very rear. It needs to have a neat way to mount the sheetmetal ...and maybe the ability to mount a "push bar" type bumper.
Anybody have suggestions for making the vertical?
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/rear.jpg)
I would fabricate a triangular tube fron 14 or 16 ga steel for that area.
I realized I forgot a pic. I didn't have room to get full spline engagement, it hits the table. It is just hanging on the threads.
This with a completely unloaded suspension. Actual ride height will be lower. ....probably right at the scrub line.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0901.jpg)
that picture sure adds a lot to the looks, makes it look like you are farther ahead than you think . cant wait to see some on the other end as well
Quote from: "tompeters"that picture sure adds a lot to the looks, makes it look like you are farther ahead than you think . cant wait to see some on the other end as well
On the topic of the other end, this thing is turning out lower and sleeker than I had first imagined. I think the front end sheetmetal needs to be swoopier than the first cars I pictured.
Would a nose kinda like this Alfa be too far of a stretch? a clash of eras/styles?
I think I can get close with the shapes in the Cadillac hood, if I cut it down the middle and rearrange the parts like I did the roof.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Alfa-Romeo-308C_1.jpg)
I don't think a nose like that would be at all out of line. Those are awesome cars and I've always had a soft spot for European sports/racing cars from the early and mid 20th Century.
i think you may be right about rearranging that hood to get the right shape. from what i have seen so far it shouldnt be much of a stretch for you. 8)
Quote from: "Flipper"
I think I can get close with the shapes in the Cadillac hood, if I cut it down the middle and rearrange the parts like I did the roof.
Got a pic of the Caddy hood ?
Edit: Found one.
(http://www.roddingroundtable.com/forums/files/1954percent20cadillacpercent20fleetwood_01_374.jpg)
quick and ugly cut lines
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/slice.jpg)
Looks doable.
Or trim off the Side Pod areas, and take a pie cut out of the middle,
wider at the back narrow at the front. Depends on how much grill area
you want.
Quote from: "unklian"Or trim off the Side Pod areas, and take a pie cut out of the middle,
wider at the back narrow at the front. Depends on how much grill area
you want.
Are you suggesting using the top of the caddy hood as the top of the hood on my car? ...as opposed to my idea of using the top of the caddy hood as hood sides?
I cut the caddy hood apart and mocked-up the front end (I'll post pics tomorrow night when I get back home). It really changes the look of the car. I think it is cool.
I also realized the low seat/high & wide dash thing sucks for visibility. I have trouble seeing sh*t from the present seating position. The cowl is going to be a little lower and a little slimmer. Seat may also go up an inch or two.
Overall, I think the car is moving from the late 20's to the late-40's - early 50's sports racer feel.
I also need to figure out how to take a little length out of the nose/cowl...right now it looks to be about a 115-120" wheelbase. The engine may get set-back a little more to tighten things up.
Death to the Caddy hood!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0903.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0906.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0907.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0908.jpg)
It doesn't fit as well as I hoped it would. The shapes would do better on a single seater. It's gonna take some pie cuts to make the nose act right and the the back line up with the shape of the main body. I think I can make it work.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0909.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0910.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0911.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0916.jpg)
The thought crossed my mind to build it like a 2 seater bonneville streamliner... move the nose forward so the end of the caddy hood ends at my original firewall. It would probably be a 140" wheelbase but it should be very fast looking.
What do y'all think?
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0909.jpg)
that looks pretty good. i think your grill opening will dictate your overall look. if you have an idea about the grill then make some cardboard cutouts and tape them in place to get an idea of where you want to go . with the shapes you have now it is not bad looking at all. have you thought about any kind of headlite pod yet? been looking at my falcon and progress for me is very slow, nothing as far along as you .looking good :)
Quote from: "tompeters"that looks pretty good. i think your grill opening will dictate your overall look. if you have an idea about the grill then make some cardboard cutouts and tape them in place to get an idea of where you want to go . with the shapes you have now it is not bad looking at all. have you thought about any kind of headlite pod yet? been looking at my falcon and progress for me is very slow, nothing as far along as you .looking good :)
I am going to let the sheetmetal find its best form and then figure out what grill works with shape. If I was more of a metal shaper, I'd do it the other way around. I use a lot of pictures for inspiration, but I am still limited by what shapes I can find.
As of right now, the upper part of the nose is really wrong. It actually caves in. It will take some creative pie cutting and welding back together. I need to study it some more before I hack it up....more.
Headlights will be mounted in the fairing for the suspension like this Mercedes except smaller grills and a little more outboard.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/753px-LangH-MB-W125-1977.jpg)
i see how the lites would work as you describe, just dont get to the point where you get writers block. things come at you in the wierdest ways when youre trying to figure something out. i have put things off sometimes because i thought they would be pretty difficult, but as you know you just have to get your feet wet. with the ideas i see so far i like what youre doing :) looking forward , tom
One thing you need to check with regard to your plan for the headlights is state laws about height off the ground and distance between lights.
We scored a couple of neat parts at the swap meet at the Bowling Green Hot Rod Reunion that may alter the build (not sure yet).
Dad bought a Whippet radiator and shell and I bought a Jaeger 5" speedometer and mechanical tach.
I have searched a little and think the gauges are 1953 MG TD. They look cool no mater what they are.
If the caddy track nose doesn't work out, I have a cool backup.
Pics
5" Jaeger speedo and tach
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/BGHRR%2009/IMG_0047.jpg)
Whippet radiator
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/BGHRR%2009/IMG_0050.jpg)
Thought about it a while.... I am going to continue to work on the track nose. The car needs to shrink a little though to pull it all off.
The cowl will need to be pinched a little to get the lines to work out right (who really needs THAT much foot room anyways?). The nose is gonna get a little smaller and a little lower at the front. Those pretty cam covers are actually going to poke through the hood a little at the front. The door openings are also gonna get smaller (shorter front to back and shallower).
I'm going to try and pack everything into a 100" wheelbase.
The Whippet radiator and MG gauges will go towards dad's T rebuild.
I spent a couple of frustrating days working on roofus. The heat and humidity in Memphis was aweful.
I had a heck of a time trying to make the transition from the boat tail to the track nose.
I started trying to mock up the original roof pieces.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0004-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0006-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0005-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0012.jpg)
Kinda OK, but I wasn't really feeling it.
On to plan B.
Another ROOF ! ...and a jaguar roof to boot! A 1979 Jaguar XJS to be specific.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0019.jpg)
Cut down the middle like I did the tail.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0021.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0022.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0023.jpg)
Time to cut. And bend up some new angles.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0024.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0025.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0026.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0027.jpg)
It looks like crap...too square. Does not flow with the rest of the car.
It fits the curve front to back pretty well though.
On to plan C
The cowl top need a bigger radius. Time to make more angle pieces.
I dropped the roof panel down. Instead of trying to make the XJS roof make the whole bend, I decided to only make it do part of the bend. I positioned it down lower on the car.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0032.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0033.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0034.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0035.jpg)
Not 100% sure on the peaks. The flat top dash was definetly wrong though.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0044.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0045.jpg)
The "hood" will butt up to the cowl. Curves actuallly match up pretty good.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0043.jpg)
(3 of the four firetruck are visible in this pic)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0040.jpg)
Cowl top will be filled in with cadillac door sheetmetal.
In the pics, the red panel looks really flat. In real life, it has a decent amount of shape and follows the curve of the framework fairly well.
On the subject of curves, do you guys think that the hood and cowl should be peaked, curved, or flat down the center?
I'm kinda up in the air over this one.
Most of the old race cars I have been around have a lot of curve in the hood and cowl top. And a bit of flare in the cowl where it reaches the cockpit.
Quote from: "enjenjo"Most of the old race cars I have been around have a lot of curve in the hood and cowl top. And a bit of flare in the cowl where it reaches the cockpit.
And I've seen that kind of shape as something on the inside of a bend. Maybe looking at those bends as coming from that Cadillac hood from the underside. Also if you were to find a formed elbow in a big piece of thin wall pipe (like something like an air duct off a large piece of equipment) that was say 6" diameter you could 1/4 the bend along it's length and a piece of it wwould give you that flared-out look up the sides and around the top of the cowl. GPster
Quote from: "enjenjo"Most of the old race cars I have been around have a lot of curve in the hood and cowl top. And a bit of flare in the cowl where it reaches the cockpit.
My original mock-up had a flared cockpit. The problem is that it made the dash too big and appeared that it was going to have horrible visibility. I think it is all related to having a wide cowl (for foot room)....when I flare out away from the cowl, it gets really big relative to seating position (narrower).
I may need to narrow the frame at the firewall. Right now, it is 43 inches wide (the body gets wider as it comes back to a max of 47 inches or so).
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0670.jpg)
looks like your getting pretty good with that shrinker/stretcher. i like the side panel so far, maybe have it open like an old hood . how wide and tall is the engine, how low in the frame will it sit? maybe mock up the engine and run some tape from cowl to a point up front to see what kind of room you need .looking forward.
Here are a couple more pics that show the overall shape of the body a little better.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0036.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0037.jpg)
I gotta spend a day cleaning up, the shop looks BAD in pics.
Quote from: "tompeters"looks like your getting pretty good with that shrinker/stretcher. i like the side panel so far, maybe have it open like an old hood . how wide and tall is the engine, how low in the frame will it sit? maybe mock up the engine and run some tape from cowl to a point up front to see what kind of room you need .looking forward.
Yep, I have gotten lots of shrinker/stretcher time in. I didn't take pics of the attempt at using door skins for the cowl sides.
The engine is tall and long. The car will be flat bottomed with the engine inside the envelope.
The engine will be moved rearward from the original mock up pics. About six inches of the motor will be recessed into the firewall. The footwells will stay the same length...feet will be next to the motor.
I do need to get it off of the table and look at it from a normal point of view.
i agree about cleaning up, you will find the rest of your c-clamps :D . i would think maybe a little peak would look good. any louvers anywhere?keep it up. im taking pictures of my falcon suspension but have them all scrambled in with my grandaughter and such. i will post some when i get farther along. looking forward
All of the sudden, I think rounded cowl and hood tops may be the way to go.
I don't know exactly what this car is, but I love it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/surfmonkey/P1050445.jpg)
thats a very good looking nose,most of that look should not be too hard to replicate. any kind of windshield for you? no idea what the car is but with the red color it looks similar to roofus :shock:
Think a Miller Indy Ford would be kind of hot rod related.
(http://carnut.com/show/indy89/indy004.jpg)
Quote from: "Carnut"Think a Miller Indy Ford would be kind of hot rod related.
One of those cars is what got the whole project started. There was one on display at a car show in Cincinnatti, OH. As cool as it was, it was a little too narrow for me to do a 1:1 replica/tribute car for the street. I'm making mine wider in general and making the footwells bigger.
Since I started, other cars have influenced the shape of the car.
I still plan on building my Independent front suspension along the lines of the 36 Miller-Ford Indy cars (out of steel instead of aluminum).
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0166-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0163.jpg)
Picked up a pair of 16x4 space saver spares at pull-a-part on Saturday.
The plan is to cut the centers out and convert the outers to be used for use with the wire wheels. I will be converting my 15x5.5 wheels to 16x4.
Going to play with forming the dimples for the spoke nipples using a press. Not sure if I will need to add heat or form it cold.
If it works, these will be the front wheels. I want skinny 18's for the rear wheels.
Not sure what this is but I like it. This car may just influence the front end shape of Roofus.
I also may add "frame rails" to my space frame.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=715223&d=1248405709
I came to the realization that I need to work out some of the function details before I get too much farther with the form. I need to figure out the mechanics of the front half of the car.
I slid the back end of the car back a couple of feet so that I would have room on the table for the motor. I ended up making a saw horse out of a suzuki samurai roll bar.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0466.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0465.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0469.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0467.jpg)
Turns out the XK transmission won't work with the bellhousing that I have, front bearing retainer and seal are way different. I * away a good bit of time trying to figure out if I could swap input shafts....I finally accepted defeat and decided to use the OD trans.
Good news is that I found a new clutch and pressure plate when I pulled the trans.
Bad news is that the engine needs to move rearward a couple of inches to make everything fit in a 100" wheelbase.
Break out the sawsall!
One step forward, two steps back.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0472.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0471.jpg)
I laid the stock jag front suspension on the table to see what 100" looked like. Don't worry, only spindles, hubs and brakes will be used.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0482.jpg)
Right now there is a tube that goes under the sump in the oil pan, I am going to re-arrange the framework so that I have a hole for the sump/belhousing to fit in and lower the motor a little more. That jag motor is a tall son of a * for a little car.
Irealized that I have been forgetting to keep this thread up to date. Here are the entries I posted on another forum.
Rather than completely trashing the car to try and get the motor to fit under a track nose, I am going to stick to the original idea for the car and copy the little blue/gray 1930 RALLY that was pictured earlier.
Here is a front view of a similar car.
(http://www.lecaav.com/faron-2009/images/faron-rally_jpg.jpg)
Found more Rally pics
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/1930rallyrear.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/1930rally.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/1930rallyint.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/2312403162_8298a9fcef_o.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/12h-01-rally.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/IMG_8540_edited.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/IMG_8537_edited.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/IMG_8538_edited.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/800px-Rally_NCP_2-Seater_Racing_193.jpg)
One with fenders!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/777px-Rally_1931.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/Rally_NC_sport_1930.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/IMG_8545_edited.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/IMG_8543_edited.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/IMG_8544_edited.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/IMG_8541_edited.jpg)
...cool little cars! Imagine one with a couple hundred horsepower.
I finally found one parked next to something that I can use as a size referrence... a Bugatti! It does appear to be really close in proportions.
I dig the low headlights. It looks like a hot rodder got ahold of this one.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/DSCN0482.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/DSCN0439.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/DSCN0440.jpg)
12-09-09 I 'm taking a couple of days off work to go play in the shop. Hopefully I will get the front suspension figured out. Right now I am thinking I-beam shaped a-arms. I bought a set of poly "4 link" bushings from speedway...should work decent as suspension bushings.
12-11-09 I worked on the front half of the frame today. Really happy with what I came up with. Wheelbase is longer than I originally planned, its gonna be 110" or so.
Here is where I started the day. A clean table from the firewall forward.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0954.jpg)
I had to come up with an idea for a frame that would accept an IFS and look good fenderless. Follow along as I work through this thing and see what I finally came up with. ....all of the blue tube is 1.5"
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0955.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0957.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0961.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0966.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0971.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0976.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0981.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0983.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0987.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0992.jpg)
Making a second top rail
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0998.jpg)
The lower control arm is going to be mounted on the straight piece that runs parrallel to the motor. The upper control arm is going to be mounted on top of the outer frame rail. The spring is going to be a 1933 ford transverse leaf spring.
My goal is something along the lines of the baby blue car except the front suspension will be 5-10 inches farther forward so that I can get the spring pack out in front of the grill shell. I will probably do the splash aprons too (but only in the front, the "framerails" will be exposed).
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/DSCN0482.jpg)
Anybody have toughts on exhaust pipes?
The stock manifolds are already split and are very header-ish, but they point down. Exhaust pipes would go underneath the steering shaft and then exit the body. If I use the stock manifolds, I think I have 3 basic options:
1) merge into one pipe under the hood and exit through a hole in the famerail and run a single pipe down low on the body.
2) don't merge, run one through the frame, one above the frame like harley drag pipes
3) don't merge, run one through the frame, one above the frame and merge into a single pipe outside of the body
The other option is to ditch the factory manifolds and build headers.
This thing only will have a 210 cubic inch or so inline six in it so it doesn't NEED really big pipes.
Stock manifolds. FYI the tubing scraps between the framerails at the firewall are just spacers for mock-up.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0988.jpg)
This car is close enough to use as an example for photoshops if anybody is so inclined.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/117065124_e0d829326f_o.jpg)
Got my frame rails mostly welded on and the center frame rails cut to length. There will be a round tube spreader bar installed at the very front. Still have to encase them in heavy sheetmetal.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1005.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1006.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1010.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1009.jpg)
And started on my front suspension.
I found a pretty cool raw material in the junk pile....Uni-strut. I like the factory punched, ebenly spaced oval lightening holes. I cut it down to 1 1/2 x 3/4 channel.
The round tubes that hold the bushings are tractor link bushings from TSC.
The tapered hole for the lower ball joint is from the jaguar parts car.
Way more work than I thought it would be. with all of the trial and error, it took two days for me to figure the first one out.
First I-beam
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1011.jpg)
donor tapered hole
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1016.jpg)
With tapered hole installed
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1014.jpg)
Turning it into an a-arm
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1021.jpg)
Making a unistrut gusset. No lightening holes for the gusset.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1023.jpg)
Gusset welded in
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1026.jpg)
Tractor bushings cut down to size
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1025.jpg)
The rear bushing end got reinforcement...the holes line up too!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1027.jpg)
One down. ....three more to go.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1028.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1029.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1031.jpg)
Passenger side "kit"
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1033.jpg)
My daughter driving Roofus.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1037.jpg)
My motor mounts showed up. I ordered 56 chevy V8 rubber biscuits from Rock Auto. The big ones were $.58 each and the small ones were $.54 each (I ordered 20 of each!....less than $33 to my door for all). I plan on using these everywhere I need a rubber mount.
edit: somebody on another forum asked for dimensions. I thought I'd post up here too.
small one p/n 2122 diameter: 1 1/2" height: 7/8"
big one p/n 2123 diameter: 2" height: 7/8"
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1040.jpg)
Nice work, thanks for catching us all up. IMO the tall grill will look just as good as a track nose, and perhaps make the end product look even a bit more unique. I like the idea of dual pipes running one above the other. Cool stuff and thanks for catching us up.
This is getting better all the time.
Tom
I'm back on the edge of my seat. Work faster, post more pics. I'm lovin it. Jbird 8)
Starting to take shape pretty darn well.
Charlie
I didn't get nearly as much done over Christmas shutdown as I had planned. Having a chest cold for about a week put a big dent in my plans. This made matters worse. ...the temp is 30 degrees in the shop.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1041.jpg)
I did manage to get the passenger side i-beam welded up. I quit before it made it to A-arm status.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1042.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1044.jpg)
Since I pushed the wheelbase out to 109", I'm thinking about moving the motor forward and gaining some gas pedal room. (engine was moved back when I was shooting for 100" wheelbase).
What's cooler...foot room or the idea of engine set-back?
Quote from: "Flipper"Since I pushed the wheelbase out to 109", I'm thinking about moving the motor forward and gaining some gas pedal room. (engine was moved back when I was shooting for 100" wheelbase).
What's cooler...foot room or the idea of engine set-back?
engine set-back is nothing if you can't fit your feet to drive it. if foot room is enough with the setback go for it.
later jim
I went looking through my early pics....when I did my original mock-up. My feet were completely behind the bell housing. Now they are beside the bell housing.
I lost a lot of foot room with the engine set back.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0571.jpg)
Looks like I need to try sliding the engine way the hell forward again and see how things look.
Those pipes should keep your feet warm.
Tom
Quote from: "Flipper"I went looking through my early pics....when I did my original mock-up. My feet were completely behind the bell housing. Now they are beside the bell housing.I lost a lot of foot room with the engine set back.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM0571.jpg)
Looks like I need to try sliding the engine way the hell forward again and see how things look.
Is it necessary to centerline the engine? Looking at the pictures it seems that the pinion of the rear end may be off-center to your passenger side so the universal joints won't be in-line anyway (which is good so that there is some movement of the joint for lubrication). With the motor set to the passenger side it might give you some room for a gas pedal and the passenger doesn't have to move their feet anyway. On the early Morgan Plus 3 and I think in some of the Indy cars while they were still running with an on-board mechanic/oiler the passenger's back rest was further back than the driver's. That way the cockpit's width could be narrower the width of the driver's butt and the width of the passengers legs. Plus the first thing in the driver's perrifferal vision to his right was the road not the passenger. GPster
Hmmmmm......... :idea: :!: :!: Smaller Shoes :!: :idea: );b( :-}
Bob........ :wink:
just a thought... then i will be quiet...
is the motor really going to sit above the frame rails ... most of the cars you have shown.. have the crank shaft center line close or just below the top of the frame rail... they use taller frame rails than you have one the work bench..
but i was looking at the pictures ... most have the bottom of the oil pans stick out below the frame rails..
i do realize that you are still mocking up... moving things around..
this is just a thought..
one thing.. take care of your self.. the latest on the colds and flu is to stay resting until you are completely well...
Just checking. I made a reply yesterday and it's vanished. I remember seeing my name as the last comment to this subject but today it's gone. Have I done something to make somebody mad? GPster
Quote from: "GPster"Just checking. I made a reply yesterday and it's vanished. I remember seeing my name as the last comment to this subject but today it's gone. Have I done something to make somebody mad? GPster
False alarm! I had posted a reply and it printed the shoes again so I thought it was the original. I'm getting so I ignor myself too. GPster
Quote from: "wayne petty"just a thought... then i will be quiet...
is the motor really going to sit above the frame rails ... most of the cars you have shown.. have the crank shaft center line close or just below the top of the frame rail... they use taller frame rails than you have one the work bench..
but i was looking at the pictures ... most have the bottom of the oil pans stick out below the frame rails..
i do realize that you are still mocking up... moving things around..
this is just a thought..
one thing.. take care of your self.. the latest on the colds and flu is to stay resting until you are completely well...
This car is gonna be low even with tall skinny bias plys. It will probably be right at the scrub line.
One of my goals on this car was for it to be a flat bottomed car....nothing hanging down below the belly pan. ....therefore the motor and trans are up tucked up in the car.
Hopefully it will all come together in the end.
Time to get on with beefing up the front so it can handle A-arms being attached. Started making boxing plates for my "front framerails". ......More cop car roll bar kick panels to the rescue.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0658.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0660.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0662.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0665.jpg)
Realized I forgot to go back and trim the front a little more. Did that.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0671.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0672.jpg)
With an a-arm.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0674.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0676.jpg)
And the Jag spindles. They look kinda like drop spindles from the factory.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0677.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0678.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0681.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0680.jpg)
Got another outer piece made for the passenger side. Not 100% sure about just having the flat sides between the arch and the firewall. The 6.5" framerail height looks very truck-like. I'm thinking about bead-rolling something in the side or something
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0684.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0688.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0689.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0691.jpg)
The tall flat frame is bothering me. What do you guys think about running one exhaust pipe out of each side of the car....through the frame rail. Rear manifold would go out the left hand side. Front one would go under the engine and out the right hand side.
Quote from: "Flipper"The tall flat frame is bothering me. What do you guys think about running one exhaust pipe out of each side of the car....through the frame rail. Rear manifold would go out the left hand side. Front one would go under the engine and out the right hand side.
I don't know if I read it here or in the feature article in Rod & Custom (?) but Charlie Chops had a unique idea he used when building his Track T . His frame rails have three square corners and the outside bottom corner is rounded. It gives the effect of a rolled belly pan but it's not an extra piece it's actually the frame. It would be a lot of work but there's also the work that you'll be doing to hide what bothers you. If you duplicated the bottom edge of your frame in tubing/pipe and then quartered it you'd have the two pieces you'd need and the diameter of the tubing/pipe (up to twice the frame rail's width) would determine how rolled the edge would appear. Just an idea (actually Charlie's) not a suggestion. GPster
This weekend, the width di not seen as bad. I started installing the boxing plates as is.
I really want these things tied to the inner tubes. I am making plug welds to secure the plates near the inner horizontal edges of the tubes.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1187.jpg)
Drilled holes two inches apart and ground away the paint
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1188.jpg)
Clamped in place to transfer weld spot to the 1.5" tube
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1190.jpg)
Welded
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1202.jpg)
The alxe I "remembered" being a model A....isn't. I think it is a 1940 unit
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1196.jpg)
I think the spring will be better for this application anyways. The wider spring will put the load out farther on the a-arms.
Now I need to figure out what the crossmember needs to look like. Anybody have any guesses as to how much this spring will compress in this car? ...jag engine with a bunch of set-back vs. stock 40 ford ....I don't have a clue.
I'm also having trouble deciding on what kind of a front crossmember to build. I'm not sure what would be best.
First idea was a ford style channel that encases the spring.
Second is a t-bucket style that runs a crossmember behind the spring with a perch over the top of the spring.
Spring will be on top of the lower arms ...I couldn't mock that up.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1204.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1200.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/HPIM1206.jpg)
Maybe a backwards idea on the spring. Put the main leaf back on the '40 front end with the shackles. Flatten the main leaf out so that the shackles are both at about a 45 degree angle and measure from the center of the spring eyes to the ground and measure from the center of the leaf to the ground. The difference between those measurements would tell you about how much arch that spring was designed to operate with. Then if you would add a thickness for the number of leafs you will use to build your spring to handle the weught. I wouldn't think your project will weigh as much as a fendered '40 Ford but if you over figure you can remove leafs and replace them with a stubby spacer leafs to fine tune your suspended height. Sometimes I look at things for a long time and I have to leave it so the answer comes to me. I'm in here typing because I got stumped figuring how to zig-zag a 100' soaker hose to water a 75' garden. GPster
Sitting and thinking can be a dangerous thing. I was surfing through some of my favorite sites looking for ideas for front crossmembers and may have changed the direction of my build just a little.
I was planning on setting it up right at the scrub line for that "stupid low" look. Nothing was going to hang below the frame rails. The car was going to be flat bottomed to be driveable down low. ...then last night I saw this car on Northwest Vintage Speedsters.
It has a really nice shape. I especially like the downward slope of the hood.
The car sits higher than I thought I wanted mine to sit. ...But it looks SO RIGHT! It looks like they dropped the motor down to have a lower hood line.
I think I may raise my car about 3-4 inches and lower the motor by the same amount.
(http://www.nwvs.org/Photolib/800Pixel/GlennBillqvist00006.JPG)
(http://www.nwvs.org/Photolib/800Pixel/GlennBillqvist00002.JPG)
(http://www.nwvs.org/Photolib/800Pixel/GlennBillqvist00003.JPG)
(http://www.nwvs.org/Photolib/800Pixel/GlennBillqvist00004.JPG)
It sure has the right look. I'm starting to think that you need your Jag wheel hubs laced to taller rims.
Tom
That's a great look. What you're contemplating might keep it from looking too "thick", too.
Quote from: "39deluxe"It sure has the right look. I'm starting to think that you need your Jag wheel hubs laced to taller rims.
Tom
Bigger wheels has been a desire all along.
....I'm just waiting to see if the car turns out to be worth spending that kind of money. I was told it would cost $600 a wheel (plus tires & tubes).
I'm hoping I can find a way to make it happen cheaper.
If you look close at that car, the engine sets much lower in the frame, with the crank about even with the bottom of the frame. Typical of cars in that era.
I played with the front end some more. I thought I wanted a t-bucket type spring perch to mount the front srping and a seperate crossmember down low to mount the rack and pinion. I was planning on making a splash apron below the the spring crossmember to hide the rack.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0851.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0852.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0853.jpg)
The piece pictured was 2x4. It seeme too bulky so I grabbed a piece of 2x4 and trimmed it to fit between the frame rails. I didn't bother taking pics. It just looked wrong. The straight line going across the front of the car did not play well fith the swoop shapes.
So I scrounged around the various junk piles and pulled out a 4x4 transfercase crossmember out of a WW2 era Dodge ambulance (everybody has one of those right?). It kinda looked like a model T rear spring perch, but was way bigger. I cut a piece out of the middle and tried it on for size.
It is going to span between the lower a-arms and the spring will be mounted above the crossmember.
Here it is mocked up, centered under the spring.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0866.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0860.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0867.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0869.jpg)
I also tried it slid forward and rearward to see what grabbed me. (The gray piece in the pic is the 2x3 crossmember I tried. I tried it mound on top of the upper frame rails and also from the bottom side of the upper frame rails...it just looked wrong)
Forward
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0874.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0873.jpg)
Rearward
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0859.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0862.jpg)
I liked it best slid to the rear.
So now that I had an idea of how the spring was going to be attached, I neede to sort out where everything else was going to be.
The radiator is a pretty important piece...so I threw it into the mock-up.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0876.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0877.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0879.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0886.jpg)
Just adding the radiator made it look more like a car.
...But the radiator that far back just didn't look right.
I scooted the motor forward so that the radiator was right behind the leaf spring ....where it would be if I do the upright grill shell like a Rally.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0888.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0887.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0891.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0895.jpg)
What do you know? The motor is back ahead of the "firewall" again. ....where it was last year!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0889.jpg)
Foot room is much nicer....again!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0890.jpg)
Just to make sure that moving the radiator closer to the spring didn't change which perch location looked best...I mocked stuff up the other ways again.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0897.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0920.jpg)
Rearward still looks best to me.
So now that I know where the radiator goes. Time to try and squeeze in the rack.
The good thing about the wide spring crossmember is that I think I can hide the rack and pinion under it.
The rack needs to go 3.5 inches forward of where it is pictured here. It will pretty much be under the radiator.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0925.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0924.jpg)
proposed cut outs
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0929.jpg)
from the side
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0930.jpg)
Now the REALLY fun part. Trying to figure out how to put it all together where I can pull the steering back out at a later date if I have to.
The original idea was to mount the rack on its own crossmember and the bolt the spring crossmember over the rack.
Then I thought about mounting the rack to the underside of the spring crossmember and bolting both down as a unit.
Now I'm trying tofigure out how to fish the rack into the crossmember if the crossmeber was welded in (I really want to weld it so that I can gusset up to the upper framerails next to the radiator).
That's where I am for now. I still have some more thinking to do.
Oops. I forgot to post the pics with the a-arms in the mock up.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0940.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0945.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0946.jpg)
and the passenger side arm turned upside down as a pretend upper a-arm
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0944.jpg)
And a few more "car" pics.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0912.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0913.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0914.jpg)
I've had a hard time figuring out the next step. I need to figure out how to tie the spring crossmember to the upper framerails (strengthen up the whole front end, especially the mounts for the upper a-arms).
I kinda wanted to put the reinforcement behind the spring instead of in front, simply to have the spring out in the open. The only thing I can fit between the spring and the radiator would be a plate (with a strengthing rib on the top front edge), I don't think I can fit a tube of any kind in there.
Anybody think this will be strong enough? also thought about making the rib wider as it gets closer to the frame.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/bulkhead.jpg)
Looks like a place for a shock absorber /headlight mount. Maybe something out of solid round (3/4") with flanges welded to the mounting surfaces to be bolted on. Your radiator shell will cover parts of it. GPster
A plate like you have drawn should be strong enough. The flange on to adds a lot of strength. You could also cut some holes in it to make it lighter, and belling the holes would make it much stiffer.
Quote from: "enjenjo"
You could also cut some holes in it to make it lighter, and belling the holes would make it much stiffer.
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Oooooooooooo Yeah!!
Especially if you have them in different sizes :wink:
Holes don't have to weaken things (if you add those flanges as enjenjo has mentioned) SEXY ! :shock: 8) 8) 8) 8)
Quote from: "enjenjo"A plate like you have drawn should be strong enough. The flange on to adds a lot of strength. You could also cut some holes in it to make it lighter, and belling the holes would make it much stiffer.
I was thinking the plate should be 3/16". Anybody think that is overkill? What should it be?
Belling the holes in 3/16" is probably beyond my ability.
3/16 should be fine. you can bell the holes easily if you want. To bell 2" holes you could use a piece of 3 1/2" pipe, and a 2 5/16" hitch ball, in a press, or even with a hydraulic jack.
Quote from: "enjenjo"3/16 should be fine. you can bell the holes easily if you want. To bell 2" holes you could use a piece of 3 1/2" pipe, and a 2 5/16" hitch ball, in a press, or even with a hydraulic jack.
That sound simple enough.
Even though it is way too hot in Memphis to be in an un-airconditioned shop I played with it a little this weekend.
The inner rod ends did come off quite easily.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0565.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0566.jpg)
I don't think scraper style seals will work worth a darn. It needs boots. I hope to find something that looks cooler than stock toyota though.
Did more figuring on how to get the rack inside the crossmember
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0567.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0568.jpg)
And then went after it with a torch.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0570.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0571.jpg)
After a little grinding.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0572.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0573.jpg)
Then I remembered I still need to trim the crossmember more so it sits lower. The rack needs to go up more to clear the inner frame rails at that height.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0575.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0576.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0578.jpg)
The rack is not really hidden under the crossmember. This is where I stopped to think if this is really what I want to do.
I did a little more fitting this past weekend. I still need to make nests and clamps to secure the rack.
Oh yeah, the crossmember is upside down in these pics.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0593.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0595.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0598.jpg)
room for boots.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0597.jpg)
It's a good thing this thing is going to have the big web mounted on top of the crossmember...'cause I'm butchering the hell out of this crossmember.
:D
Worked on mounting the rack to the crossmember. I had to come up with nests to hold the rack in the proper location.
more cop car roll bar to the rescue.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0012-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0013-3.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0014-3.jpg)
a whole lot of grinding and hand filing
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0015-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0016-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0017-1.jpg)
mocked up to the crossmember
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0019-2.jpg)
little piece used for the other end. had to tighten up the radius to fit the rack tube.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0021-2.jpg)
both ends mocked up.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0023-2.jpg)
everything cleaned up
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0024-2.jpg)
bzzzzzzzzz
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0025-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0026-2.jpg)
This what it will look like on the car (I still need to make clamps to hold it in the nest).
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0031-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0032-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0033-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0034-1.jpg)
Actually mounting the steering rack was one of things that I somewhat dreaded doing.
The arched front crossmember looked cool, but was not a very friendly location for clamping down the rack. But it was something that had to be done. ...so I did it.
The plan was to mount it with two clamps. One clamp would control front to back and sis to side posioning. The other would just be front to back.
Once again, the raw materials were junk from the barn. I think this piece of heavy wall tubing used to be a physical therapy machine that dad bought cheap at an auction (for the metal).
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0301.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0302-1.jpg)
I decided to use 7/16 bolts for mounting it. He I am checking to see if I have room for these nuts. I ended up welding the nuts to the underside of the mounting bracket.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0306-2.jpg)
Here it is welded to the saddle that the rack tube rests in.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0307-2.jpg)
Now the other side of the saddle is tied to the crossmember
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0309-1.jpg)
Even though this was some pretty heavy material, I gusseted one of the sides.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0311-1.jpg)
Same thing on the other side.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0318-3.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0320.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0322-2.jpg)
Now to start fabbing up the straps.
I started on the end that I just made the bases.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0323-2.jpg)
The other end of the straps will be secured by nuts and bolts through the flange of the crossmember.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0325-1.jpg)
just connect the dots.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0328-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0327.jpg)
...and then gusset the hell out of it so that the bends in the straps stay where they are supposed to be.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0335-1.jpg)
Other clamp done. Guset was done differently (clamp on this side is farther outboard...less ground clearance), but should be plenty beefy.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0346.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0348.jpg)
Boots look like crap.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0349.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0350.jpg)
But they are necessary
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0355-1.jpg)
The spring should block out most of the view
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0359.jpg)
Oh yeah, the u-bolts I bought were too small. They won't work :(
Get some steel tube big enough for the boots to fit inside,
then split it lengthwise and weld to the cross member.
Quote from: "unklian"Get some steel tube big enough for the boots to fit inside,
then split it lengthwise and weld to the cross member.
Yeah, somebody else already suggested making hoods to cover the boots.
I need t wait until the suspension is built to see how much angular movement there is as the steering is turned and the suspension cycles.
I love this build, so much innovative thinking in this build, I love it. Thanks for the update.
* happened and I did not make it to dad's house.
There was a wreck going the other direction. One of the cars crossed the centerline and I collided with them head on at 45 mph.
I don't have any broken bones or life threatening injuries, but I feel like I was thrown off of a 5 story building and landed in the grass.....I look ok, but everything hurts.
The little red car is screwed.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0057.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0055.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0054.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0056.jpg)
Wow! Glad to hear you are Ok.
WOW ... I bet you hurt. Glad you came out OK, just sore
Ouch, make sure that your soreness is just that.I have a friend that got kicked by his horse a few weeks ago,he felt pretty sore,three days later he was in hospital with internal bleeding.
Pics from my wife's cell phone
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/33667_1648607581689_1431934673_31671429_598089_n.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/66566_1648607981699_1431934673_31671432_84504_n.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/66566_1648608021700_1431934673_31671433_4803193_n.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/66566_1648608061701_1431934673_31671434_185572_n.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/66566_1648608101702_1431934673_31671435_5742503_n.jpg)
WOW :!: Your little red car really did a number on that big , mean , SUV thing ..... :shock: That'll teach him to mess with little red cars 8)
Good to hear you're ok ......... :D
Bob....... :wink:
I finally feel like digging in a getting some more work done. I'm getting over the whiplash pretty well. I'd say 90% gone.
I plan on going to dad's house next weekend come hell or high water. There should be new pictures soon!
It's been months and I had forgot about your build. I'm glad you're better. Best wishes for the future.
Good to see you're back in the game .... :D Maybe you & Jack can do therapy together ????? :lol: :lol:
Don't over-do anything & get messed up ( Like I did :oops: ) ....Take your time & heal correctly ....
Bob........ :wink:
Glad to see you're ready to get back in the game. Bet Roofus has missed you.
I finally did something! I mounted my front spring.
After a whole lot of looking, I decided the spring belonged close to the front of the crossmember.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0116.jpg)
The fun started when I tried to figure out how to align the u-bolts. There isn't a straight line on my crossmember to use as a reference point.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0115.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0114.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0117.jpg)
Next issue was where the threads were on my bolts. I built a platform under the crossmember to have a nice flat surface to bolt to. The lovely seam down the middle is where I had to adjust the hole location on the platform. One chopsaw width was about perfect.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0119.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0122.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0120.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0125.jpg)
Now to remember exactly where I wanted to mount the crossmember.
Here...
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0126.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0128.jpg)
...or here (pushed slightly forward)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0130.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0129.jpg)
I like the more forward position.
I'm seriously thinking about cutting the firewall and transmission tunnel out of of the donor jag and grafting it into this car to make the registration process a little more legitimate.
Anybody think having jag sheetmetal in the center of the car would be worth the effort?
I don't know your state laws, but here it would be worth while.
Might be fun trying to take it to an "all import" car show, too..."see that? Says it's a Jag right there."
It really didn't take long to harvest the jag pieces. A small generator and a sawsall helped.
another roof.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0183.jpg)
now for the floor and firewall
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0188.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0194-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0208.jpg)
Guess what this was.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0197-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0196-1.jpg)
I had heard stories about it, but had never seen it until now.
it is a 1958 Jaguar XK150S that my dad parted out in 1962 ....and then pushed into a ditch and covered with dirt (trying to control errosion). Sometime since then, it was washed back out and moved about 100 ft from where it was planted.
(http://www.collectioncar.com/files/1251-11290785418-1.JPG)
This is what I want to graft into Roofus. The trans tunnel and the stock jag brake and clutch pedals.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0215-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0218-1.jpg)
Using the jag tunnel means the deep engine set-back is back. I cut out the tube that was under the bell housing.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0216-1.jpg)
It looks more racecar to me.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0220.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0223.jpg)
The jag firewall has a whole lot of ugly that needs to be trimmed off.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0224.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0225-1.jpg)
It will wait until another weekend. I had to go watch basketball (Go UK!)
I said Jag XK120 when I saw the crumples pile so I wasn't far off.
I didn't do anything today. My wife asked me what I was going to do today and I said nothing. She said that is what I did yesterday to which I replied "I know, I wasn't finished."
It sure would be nice if someone had a vat large enough to put the whole section in. It sure would make life easier for you. I've seen some Jag engines polished and dressed real nice. Is that part of the plan?
Quote from: "kb426"It sure would be nice if someone had a vat large enough to put the whole section in. It sure would make life easier for you. I've seen some Jag engines polished and dressed real nice. Is that part of the plan?
Yep, the engine will be painted, polished and otherwise detailed to the best of my ability.
I started trying to put the jag firewall inside of my boattail. Jag was at least a foot wider. A sawsall can fix that.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0243.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0244-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0247.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0248.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0249.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0250.jpg)
kinda reminds me of beef in a meat packing plant
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0251.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0252.jpg)
Trim some more
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0253.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0255.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0256.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0257.jpg)
Jag heater still fits :)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0258.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0259.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0260.jpg)
No telling how many times I removed and installed the floor and/or engine this past weekend. I quit counting after 15 or so times.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0261.jpg)
The pile of parts kept getting bigger and the floor/firewall got smaller.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0263.jpg)
I decided I need to lower the motor to get the floor to fit better. First I had to install a crossmember unter the motor.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0264.jpg)
Chassis spaced up 1.5" = motor lowered 1.5"
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0265.jpg)
Manifolds hit firewall now
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0266.jpg)
...and the radiator and steering want to fight over the same spot
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0267.jpg)
But the lower motor could allow a swoopier shape.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0268.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0269.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0270.jpg)
I just wasn't feeling it, so I cut off the cowl too.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0271.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0272.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0273.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0277-1.jpg)
Manifolds clear now
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0280-1.jpg)
I got frustrated with the trans tunnel and moved to the front of the car. I needed more beef to weld the front crossmember to. 1.5 x 1.5 angle attached with a ton of rosette welds.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0281-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0282-2.jpg)
I got tired of drilling holes, so I attacked the other pieces with a grinder. Slots should function the same as holes.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0285-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0284-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0291-1.jpg)
Then I fitted the front crossmember better and welded it in.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0293-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0292.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0294.jpg)
The I dug into the stack of cop car roll bars again and cut out two bends.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0295-1.jpg)
and made a sleeve from another piece of rollbar (cut a section out and made a smaller tube)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0296-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0306-3.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0310-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0307-3.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0309-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0308-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0312-4.jpg)
Firewall is pretty beefy now. I'm not 100% sure the jag tunnel will be used or not.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0315-3.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0317-4.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0320-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0321-1.jpg)
I was going to work on my car again this weekend, but......
.....mother nature gave me something else to do.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/4-19-11%20storm/IMG_0339.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/4-19-11%20storm/IMG_0338.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/4-19-11%20storm/IMG_0345.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/4-19-11%20storm/IMG_0360.jpg)
A lot of that going round.
This tree is kicking my *. ...but it is slowly making its way to the side of the road for the city to pick up.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/4-19-11%20storm/IMG_0395.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/4-19-11%20storm/IMG_0396.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/4-19-11%20storm/IMG_0397.jpg)
Quote from: "enjenjo"A lot of that going round.
Got more twisters tonight Its bad in north st louis around airport, might give sister a call, shes in ucity if I recall. Not alot of info at this time.
Flipper, you need a bigger wagon to make it go faster.
Flipper ...Don't look now but I think the wagon's R/F wheel may have an alignment "issue " ...... :lol: :lol:
Maybe too much tree in too little wagon :?
Could that be the reason it's sooooooo hard to pull :?: :P :lol:
Bob ... :wink:
Yeah that wagon has been beat on for 15 years or so. The tree fell on it too (under some of the upper branches).
I've been thinking about the car some more. I was impressed with how well the firewall brace worked out, that I am thinking about using more cop-car roll bar. I was thinking a hoop behind the dash would be good. I want to mount it on top of the next node back from the firewall. It should do a good job of keeping my outer frame rails from ribboning(flexing side to side) and give me a covientent place to mount steering column stuff.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0307-3.jpg)
Quote from: "Flipper"Yeah that wagon has been beat on for 15 years or so. The tree fell on it too (under some of the upper branches).
I've been thinking about the car some more. I was impressed with how well the firewall brace worked out, that I am thinking about using more cop-car roll bar. I was thinking a hoop behind the dash would be good. I want to mount it on top of the next node back from the firewall. It should do a good job of keeping my outer frame rails from ribboning(flexing side to side) and give me a covientent place to mount steering column stuff.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0307-3.jpg)
I've been looking at where your rails connect to the tube frame section and wondering if it could use more gusset. The 3 rail connections, on each side, are basically just butt joints. I could see a bit of sq. tube from the top of the firewall/footwell frame down and forward to the top of the rail ( right behind the chain fall in this pic).
Maybe somebody else can give an opinion. I'm no engineer. Just figure that as long as your changing things in that area... :oops:
Quote from: "Mac"I've been looking at where your rails connect to the tube frame section and wondering if it could use more gusset. The 3 rail connections, on each side, are basically just butt joints. I could see a bit of sq. tube from the top of the firewall/footwell frame down and forward to the top of the rail ( right behind the chain fall in this pic).
Maybe somebody else can give an opinion. I'm no engineer. Just figure that as long as your changing things in that area... :oops:
Thanks for the input. I have something along those lines planned.
That area is about 50% done right now. The inner front frame rail will get trussed like the outside of the body and diagonals run between the inner frame, outer frame, and firewall.
I'm waiting on nailing down the steering shaft path before I go much farther with the front structure.
Also, at the very least, there will be a continuation of the outer sheetmetal plating that is used on the front outer frame rails that will run from where front sheet ends to the second verticle of the "body".
Where the front and rear halves join will probably be the strongest part of the car once all is said and done.
I found new Rally pics. I think this thing is going to lean towards being Rally inspired ....again.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/5705928477_e62b9b0a85_b.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/5705927039_fd1735e71c_o.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/5704667348_b66953fe62_b.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/5704770245_c1277fe0f9_b.jpg)
I went to dad's house for the long weekend. It took me quite a while to clear out a path to get the 48 out and free up some work room. My dad is pretty darn productive for a 73 year old....he tore down the wooden deck that was on the back of his house and built this (brickwork, iron railings...all of it)!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/grandaddys%20deck/IMG_0505.jpg)
The new deck is impressive, but he left a heck of a mess in the shop (it is his shop after all).
I finally got around to my project. I am a little baffled about how to make the transmission tailshaft mount area beefy enough yet still have room for seats. I stuck the seats from the Dodge WWII ambulance in for mock-up. I think these are the same seats as went in the airplanes.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0486.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0490-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0487.jpg)
Insert your favorite racecar noises here.
Actually, I was really trying to figure out steering column placement so that I could make motor mounts.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0492-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0493-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0497.jpg)
It was not nearly as perfect for the 6' 6" 15 year old.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0498.jpg)
I cut up another cop car roll bar for a dash support. Lots of stuff will be tied into this piece.
Here it is being mocked up.
straight up
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0524.jpg)
angled forward
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0528.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0530.jpg)
I figured out that I really needed to know what I was going to use for a steering shaft before I could do the motor mounts. I went to pull-a-part and found a shaft from a toyota four runner for the front u-joint and collapsible section and a 70's GM big car for some double D material.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0536.jpg)
The double D will go in the section next to the exhaust. * that is an ugly mock up!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0531.jpg)
In this picture, the motor is 1.5" too high.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0539.jpg)
The 2x4 got replaced by bailing wire once the dash support was welded in place
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0537.jpg)
I have plenty of room below the shaft for a motor mount.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0540-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0539.jpg)
The barn was filled with racecar noises
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0544-1.jpg)
I also dug out the cockpit mock-up pieces that I made a while back.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0546-1.jpg)
This is the new version of the "thinking chair"
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0485.jpg)
and the views
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0520.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0521.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0522.jpg)
It is a pretty nice spot to just chill and think up strange * like this.... a floor buffer grill and wind deflectors (it is cast aluminum).
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0516.jpg)
The center portion would be cut out for the grill shell.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0517.jpg)
The round part would be cut into semi-circles and mounted on the cowl.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0518.jpg)
...along the lines of this
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Rally%20NCP/5705927039_fd1735e71c_o.jpg)
I may end up saving this for a single seater build, That way the wind deflector could wrap all the way around the cowl.
You come up with some of the most imaginative sources for parts...I love it!!!
Quote from: "jaybee"You come up with some of the most imaginative sources for parts...I love it!!!
I find inspiration where I can,
If I was building a 32 Ford, I'd know what I was looking for. I'm making * up as I go. :D
I'm with ya. Keep on goin and showin.
This was one of those one step forward, two steps back kinda weekends, but I think the car will be better because of it.
I had planned on trying to work a quick disconnect into the jag set-up (I had ruled out the speedway parts because they looked like "new parts"). When I tore into the jag column, I discovered it was a cheezy design that used felt bushings top and bottom and the shaft was 1" bar stock.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1497.jpg)
I decided I needed something with bearings.
I dug through my stash and pulled out what I think is a Dodge column and wheel (cheap swap meet raw material). The wheel is kinda generic with a smooth horn button that can be customized.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1504.jpg)
While mocking up the new coulmn (and exhaust routing), I figured out that the path I had previously picked for the steering sector was too prominent. It needed to blend into the background.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1505.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1514.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1516.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1513.jpg)
The sector needed to go under the exhaust.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1511.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1517.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1510.jpg)
To pull this off as simply as possible, I decided I needed a really long steering column (column to sector junction as far away from the firewall as possible).
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1506.jpg)
I did not cut the outer tube.
For the lower bearing, I used an off the shelf part from Tractor Supply Company (TSC).
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1507.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1509.jpg)
I needed a splined end to connect to the toyota u-joints, so I hacked into a 1991 Celica column.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1499.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1501.jpg)
It was stuck together with plastic that acted like shear pins
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1522.jpg)
plastic removed
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1523.jpg)
Trying to figure out how much dodge shaft to trim. The double-D coupler needed to be completely inside the coulmn, above the lower bearing.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1524.jpg)
a little snip here
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1525.jpg)
a little grinding turned the round shaft into a double-d. It is a snug fit in the coupler (it goes from round to D on the dodge end)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1526.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1528.jpg)
welded with plug welds
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1534.jpg)
assembled.
The new column is 46.5" long
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_1537.jpg)
I didn't have time to do anything more than mock up a torque tube exhaust pipe in two different positions.
Above the frame rail/ angle down
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2647.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2648.jpg)
And down low/ through the frame. I think I like this best.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2649.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2650.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2651.jpg)
Through the frame looks best,my $.02.
Quote from: "chimp koose"Through the frame looks best,my $.02.
me too! looks like you got 4 cents now
later jim
Me three. If you can find a way to snake a long tailpipe out under the rear axle clear to the back of the car it'd be very much in the mold of the early sports cars you're using for inspiration.
I like it also .... 8) Now you got 0.08 cents :shock: Better mock up the second pipe to check out the "look" ... :?
Bob..... :wink:
I went and played with it this past weekend. I think I forked up more than I fixed...but I enjoyed the time with my folks and I figured out/rembered what I wanted to do a year ago......
I needed to figure out the transmission tunnel before I could figure out the transmission mount
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2658.jpg)
I tried the jag tunnel again
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2662.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2663.jpg)
I didn't fit as snug as I wanted it to, so I sliced and diced it...
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2668.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2669.jpg)
I cut it a little more
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2672.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2676.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2674.jpg)
There was too much air space between the sheetmetal and the bell housing...that space is needed for a gas pedal.
so I broke out the cop car kick panel sheet metal to build a beefy, close fitting tunnel (engine and trans shifted 1" to passenger side for more room).
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2679.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2682.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2684.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2686.jpg)
I realized I didn't want to run it all the way behind the seats as one piece, so I added a center bulkhead to give it something solid to tie into in the middle of the cockpit.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2702.jpg)
I really didn't like that, so I cut it out
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2703.jpg)
It needed to be straight across, so that it could be the start of the front of the seat. I had to add verticals to weld to.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2704.jpg)
I ran out of time, but I figured out/remembered that I needed to have a bulkhead that doubled as a seat front and that the spring boxes need to extend to that bulkhead.
I don't like the new tunnel either.... I think I like the trans out in the open better.
I'm seriously thinking about leaving the trans exposed.
The tailshaft/driveshaft will disappear under the bulkhead that will be the front of the seat. The seat itself will be a bench seat of sorts (think two buckets and a center hump all fused together) and will be part of the structure of the car.
Air cooled VWs used some sort of rubber lip to seal the engine tin to the body sheetmetal. I think I will take a closer look at how they did that.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2658.jpg)
The VW engine seal has a lip that fits into a channel in the body to hold it in place. IMHO it would be difficult to adapt to anything else.They are available on the aftermarket. Try Johnson Foreign Car, Decatur, Al. #1 888 VWPARTS
hmm...
you might want to think about additional bracing before covering the sides with metal...
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb476/waynep712/roofusprojectframerein.jpg)
this is just an idea... as i don't really think that vertical section at the firewall is going to survive the first hard dip in the road without breaking the back of the chassis..
and yes.. the red sections are at 2 angles .. as it looked stronger that way.. dividing the thrust angles... at least in my head...
the more i look at it. the more i think it needs both red and green bars to spread the load to both the upper frame and lower frame rail..
the Dashed yellow is where my brain predicts its going to bend at..
i might have my head up somewhere.. if so.,, just ignore this and pass the charmin..
Because you're running a straight six rather than a Hemi why can't you triangulate from the top of the frame at the front axel hump to the top of the firewall and further on to the steering column support hoop. Might also add some support to the joints where the hood top and side panels meet in the future. Might also add some side impact crash resistance for the engine and your knees and give some support for a future radiator mount. GPster
The framework will get more tubes and gusseting once I figure out where motor mounts will be and what the outside front sheetmetal will look like. There will be some sort of hoop at the radiator, a truss that runs from that hoop to the firewall near the bellhousing, and probably a truss that runs from the radiator hoop to the upper outside corners of the firewall.
The current thought on the front frame to body junction is to run the front frame outside boxing plate to the next verticle tube and have the body drop over that plate. It will look like the body is channeled over a conventional frame and help tie the front to the back.
I have a lot of neat ideas for doing stuff, but getting them to play nice with each other...and be something that I am actually capable of building....and end up looking like it was supposed to be that way, is one heck of a hurdle.
Logging in on Dad's dial-up internet connection ....so no pics for now, but I am making really good progress.
I made a trans mount...and figured out how to finish the front half of the spring boxes (driverside mostly done, cutting pieces for the passenger side) and also figured out the frame for the seat bottoms (driverside is already welded in, passenger side is formed). I must say, that I am REALLY proud of what I came up with. The drivers side seat feels great...even without seat foam. ....And looks like it belongs in a vintage racer.
Oh yeah, I think I figured out how to seal the exposed trans too....rubber hose. I am going to form a half round chanel (split tubing) that goes around the flange of the bellhousing. the hose will fill th gap. I just need to make some motor mounts that hold everything in place really well.
OK, here's the picture post.
I started the weekend with a simple transmission mount
What Jag gave me to work with
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2705.jpg)
Donor steel
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2706.jpg)
One of the holes is chevy made
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2707.jpg)
Second part
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2708.jpg)
Welded and bolted in place on the trans with rubber pucks mocked up. There will be a body side mounting surface where the silver washer is.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2709.jpg)
Last time I tried a square crossmember and hated it. I tried round this time and didn't really like it much either.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2711.jpg)
A plain bench seat just doesn't feel right. It needed to be bucket-like.
Time to break out the Horrible Fright pipe bender
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2715.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2714.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2713.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2712.jpg)
Better. ...but I didn't like the tube just going over and tieing in to the frame on the outside
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2716.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2717.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2718.jpg)
I didn't really know what to do with it back in the corner, so I just bent it down..it will disappear under the seat cushion
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2719.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2720.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2721.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2723.jpg)
realized that I really couldn't finish the seat frame without doing the front half of the spring boxes. They had to be there before the seat gets welded in.
The U-shaped section is where the front of the leaf spring sits.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2724.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2725.jpg)
I doubled up on the spring holder
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2726.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2727.jpg)
I went ahead and gusseted the tube that this piece welds to at the front...because I have no idea what kind of loads this suspension places on the frame.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2728.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2731.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2729.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2730.jpg)
I melted the rubber pad under the spring...oops!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2732.jpg)
Now I could put the seat frame in place.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2734.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2735.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2737.jpg)
Time to make a second one. ...that is a little skinnier (I offset the engine and the trans to the passenger side so that I have plenty of foot room).
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2739.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2740.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2743.jpg)
For the heck of it, I propped up a 36 ford truck grill to see what it looked like.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2744.jpg)
I did more, but don't have pics ...my camera bit the dust at the Turkey Drags on Saturday.
...Oh yeah, I replaced the melted rubber pads under the front of the leaf spring with a 3/4 eurothane pad (jeep body mount). I put a jack under the rear axle and jacked up the back of the car. The rear rim was about 3 inches below the frame rail without engine weight, gas tank or people. I'm probably gonna have to tweak something to raise the rear enough to be driveable.
After my camera died, I snapped a few pics with my phone. I just now figured out how to get them to my PC hard drive....
This is where I put a cushion on my "seat" and mocked up the steering wheel again to see how much things had changed from the previous mock up. The real seat puts me farther back than the bomber seat did (a good thing)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Photo032.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Photo033.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Photo034.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Photo035.jpg)
Hopefully I will get some quality time to work on stuff after Christmas.
Where I started this trip. I decided the drivetrain needed to be tucked up inside the car. I pulled out thje 1.5" spacers that were under the frame.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0027-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0029-3.jpg)
I went ahead and mocked up the single chamber flowmaster where it would fit under the hood.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0034-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0036-1.jpg)
I made a hole in the firewall for the steering column
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0047.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0044-2.jpg)
this neat little piece from the jag donor still fits
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0046.jpg)
going from the column to the rack looks like it will be easy
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0043-2.jpg)
It feels right
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0042-1.jpg)
I decided that I really needed to know the body shape before I could mount the brake pedals (one of the things I needed to finalize the seat design)
Time for the "real mock-up". I tried the cadillac track nose again...this time I turned the hood around. The lower edge of the hood points toward the cowl now. A front door skin is now the hood. a piece of the rear door skin is the cowl.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0049.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0050.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0054-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0051.jpg)
The grill looked like it would work.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0057-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0065.jpg)
Also, decided to find a use for the fenders
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0060.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0063.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0064.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0066.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0067.jpg)
decided to try and use more of the fender. The wheel opening is now the door opening.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0068.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0069.jpg)
The car is 14 feet long! It is starting to look fast.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0076.jpg)
I wasn't happy with the fender top as a cowl. The transition from hood to cowl to body didn't flow good enough. I went back to the rear door piece.
fender
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0076.jpg)
door
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0078.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0079.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0080.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0085.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0084.jpg)
I raised the door opening
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0083.jpg)
insert motor noises
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0086.jpg)
The curves all line up
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0089.jpg)
Time to cut down the rear door piece to eliminate the overlap
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0090.jpg)
tacked to the hood (door)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0093-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0093-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0096-1.jpg)
The fender looks good in pics, but the contour under the chrome would be a pain to deal with and it really didn't match the curve of the chassis. Bring back the 1979 jaguar XJS roof
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0099-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0101-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0100-1.jpg)
It needs hood sides. VW squareback hood to the rescue
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0105-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0106.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0108-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0109-1.jpg)
This thing still is a movie set prop
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0115-1.jpg)
side re-positioned
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0120-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0128-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0127-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0114-1.jpg)
it's got room under the hood even with the raised motor position
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0123-1.jpg)
Before I could go any farther with sheetmetal work, I needed to beef up my horrible fright bead roller.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0124-1.jpg)
junk from the pile
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0125-1.jpg)
welded on
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0142.jpg)
It works!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0143.jpg)
Somehow I had offset the trans too far to the passenger side.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0149-2.jpg)
the tunnel was too tight anyways, so I removed 1 inch.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0150.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0151-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0152-2.jpg)
34 olds? dash insert looks cool upside down and looks like it might work
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0148-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0147.jpg)
more mock-up pics
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0154-3.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0157-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0159-1.jpg)
making plans for the body side of the trans mount
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0165-3.jpg)
That's a fantastic looking vehicle. By the timeI had finished and dressed all those weld joints it would have warped into an intirely different looking vehicle. Good eye and good imagination. GPster
It also looks like I can install a sway bar!
I think this is the one that came off of the jag donor car...but not 100%
It snakes around everything perfectly!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0136.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0137.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0138.jpg)
If it were only it were this easy... a photoshopped passenger side!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/photoshopbothsides.jpg)
Great pics as always. Nice job scrounging for bits that'll give it the contours you want. Just goes to show that the rest of us have workable alternatives to spending a year or two worth of wages at Marcel's Custom Metal Works.
SCRAPTASTIC !
I see an early Alfa Romeo look emerging out of that grille shell. Or, better yet a Seagrave influence. How `bout instead of Rufus call it Seagravity?
Anyway, I'm lovin this build. This is the essence of rodding right here; scabbing your own stuff together. And doing it without CAD, waterjets, lasers, billet, new DOM stock, crate motors, Currie, Tremec, blah,blah, blah.
You rock Flipper!
So do y'all like the track nose?
I like the shape, but I'm kinda disapointed that it will hide the front crossmember.
Next weekend, I plan on going back to dad's hose again.
I think may set this beast off of the table and do a mock-up at ground level before I cut up any more of the potential sheetmetal.
Flipper, good idea about getting it on ground level before finalizing the shape. Sometimes the perspective changes when viewed from a different level.Looks good so far,and ditto to the comment about seeing how far you can get without billet ,etc.
Quote from: "Flipper"Next weekend, I plan on going back to dad's hose again.
I think may set this beast off of the table and do a mock-up at ground level before I cut up any more of the potential sheetmetal.
Flipper I haven't been here long or had much to say but man do I enjoy this thread. I dig a good picture story so thanks for posting this saga. I think the rough shape of the nose is gonna work with the tail. I would yep, take it down and have a look at it on the floor next. The whole deal looks like more fun than a barrel of monkeys so I'll keep an eye on ya. Keep going!
Me and my daughter went to dad's for the weekend. We had a great time visiting but I didn't get nearly as much done as if I would have gone alone.
I started out trying to make frames for bucket seat backs.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0214.jpg)
I was shooting for the same feel as the bench seat in my truck
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0219-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0220-1.jpg)
It didn't work all that well. It didn't feel great and took up interior room.
Plan B One seat back.
Not wanting to mess up anything good for a mock-up...I grabbed a very rusty VW hood that was destined for the crusher.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0218-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0234.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0221-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0222-1.jpg)
view behind the seat. I need to figure out how the seat back will attach and how it will be supported
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0225-2.jpg)
My daughter trying it out. The VW hood was amazingly comfortable. The shape was much simpler than my truck seat.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0226-2.jpg)
I also mocked up a set of model A hood sides. They might be louver donors...not sure.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0216-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0215-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0217-1.jpg)
I didn't take it off of the table, but I did the next best thing. I made my daughter climb on the table.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0182-1.jpg)
It's a sleek LITTLE car!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0232.jpg)
I also welded in the bottom 1x1 tubes that will be part of the driveshaft tunnel. (not yet welded in this pic)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0163-2.jpg)
I'm having a hard time deciding how the sheetmetal in this are will all fit together. I haven't found the elegantly simple solution yet. I need to blend the driveshaft tunnel to the front of the seat bases while sealing off the driveshaft...and the whole thing needs to support the weight of the middle part of the car.
I've been slacking on keeping this thread up to date....here are the updates from the past couple of months.
I finally got a chance to do something!
I had a general idea of how I wanted to do my trans mount, but had no idea of how the trans tunnel would tie in. Everything I visualized got real complicated.
I went to wally-world and picked up posterboard to play with.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0242-1.jpg)
It worked great to eliminate a couple of ideas that didn't work in real life.
I started off making fronts to the seat bases. The beefed up bead roller is fun to use (as opposed to frustrating).
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0250-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0252-1.jpg)
I then traced the panels to see the "box" th trans mount had to fit in.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0254-1.jpg)
I mocked up a mount in posterboard. It worked good enough to transfer to steel.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0258-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0259-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0261-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0262-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0266-1.jpg)
Even though it is a short span between the seats, I felt the mount needed more beef.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0267-1.jpg)
I bent up a simple reinforcement to double the material and add gussets
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0269-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0270-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0271-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0273-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0275-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0280-2.jpg)
now for the tunnel
I screwed around with the idea of a beefy safety loop, but nothing seemed to work. In the end I just made a simple tunnel.
First in posterboard
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0281-3.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0283-2.jpg)
then in steel
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0284-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0286-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0287-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0298-3.jpg)
Nothing is welded in. I am considering bead rolling the tunnel, but need to know where the seat back will be before I can finalize a design.
I played with front end pieces too....trying to figure out what my upper control arms might look like. I did a comparison of front spindle relative to the bottom of the car and the current rear "ride height". ...the front is about 2.5 to 3 inches lower (spindle higher). It ought to be fun trying to make this crazy mismatch of parts sit right.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0246-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0247-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0245-2.jpg)
The 6'5" boy doesn't fit quite as well as my daughter did, but nobody can resist the chance to make racecar noises.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0302-3.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0300-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0303-4.jpg)
The goal for the weekend was motor mounts.
First I needed to figure out what the motor would attach to. Before I could do that, I needed to figure out exactly where the steering would be....
I started with a brace from the firewall cop car brace to the front crossmember.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0304-3.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0306-4.jpg)
then thought about going from that diagonal to the front framerail swoop
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0310-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0311-4.jpg)
I buzzed in the diagonal and added a brace to that
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0315-4.jpg)
The steering crosses from the outside (at the column) to the inside (at the rack). I neede to figure out where the middle shft is going to be.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0318-6.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0319-3.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0322-4.jpg)
I cut apart a Toyota four runner steering sector (partially to see how it was put together)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0341-2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0342-2.jpg)
I made an adapter bushing to match up the splined section I needed to the crush section
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0343-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0344-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0345-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0348-1.jpg)
The bushing started out as a 1.25" collar that I ground down to 1"
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0340-1.jpg)
trial fit before welding
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0349-1.jpg)
bzzzzzzz
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0352-1.jpg)
I have steering!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0358-2.jpg)
still a lot of decisions to be made on how the whole underhood bracing will tie together.....
Started on the other side
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0354-1.jpg)
not a whole lotta room next to the oil filter
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0356-1.jpg)
I didn't get around to motor mounts...too much basketball watching.
I took a second swing at motor mounts this weekend. trying to use the factory jag mounting scheme wasn't working for me. I think the mounts need to be lower.
Inside the frame rail, just behind the x-brace is where I'm thinking for the frame pad.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0363.jpg)
more posterboard
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0359-1.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0361.jpg)
couldn't tell crap with posterbaord. I needed metal.
more recycled WWII dodge 4x4 ambulance turned hunting buggy. This was a rear fender.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0365-1.jpg)
set free with fire
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0368-2.jpg)
found something round to add shape
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0370.jpg)
first look
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0372.jpg)
second look (bolted down)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0378.jpg)
other side
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0380.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0382.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0383.jpg)
My plan was to tie the two sides together with a brace that would run under the oil pan. The top section looks like it will be flimsy no mater what.
Add gussets to the outside too? (mounting bolt would go down through the gold colored tube)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0384.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0385.jpg)
Not really sure these parts will be used either.
The small tube gusset wasn't cutting it. I needed to do something more substantial, but not super heavy. I also decided the mounts needed upper biscuits.
I wanted a flange to go around the buscuit, but didn't have the right size tube...so I made my own. ...from cop car kick panels.
I started by making a strip of flat stock.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0388.jpg)
wrapped around a piece of roll bar tube
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0389.jpg)
it worked!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0391.jpg)
Now that I had a better idea what I was making, I cleaned up the end
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0392.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0394.jpg)
time for sheetmetal gussets
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0395.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0396.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0397.jpg)
the top bolt hole was the hard part to figure out. I sleeved it and then cut the sleeve down.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0399.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0398.jpg)
I welded the circles first (welds under the big gusset)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0402-1.jpg)
and added speed holes
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0404-1.jpg)
socket fits great on the top bolt
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0408.jpg)
with a rubber
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0411.jpg)
Now the other side.
The passenger side mount is shorter due to the engine offset (more foot room for me). I had to cram things closer to get it all to fit. hammer time!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0412.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0413.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0414.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0416.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0419.jpg)
Now to give it something to bolt to
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0424.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0426.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0427.jpg)
trimmed to sit on the X-brace
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0429.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0434.jpg)
test fit
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0435.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0436.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0438.jpg)
did the same thing for the other side
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0440.jpg)
I now have a mounted motor!
Now to test out my idea for using the Ford leaf spring. I have no idea what sort of spring rate this car actually needs.
I bolted it to the crossmember and let the ends rest on the control arms
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0441.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0443-1.jpg)
too high and this thing was solid as *! The weight of the jag and my fat * on the crossmember didn't hardly budge it!
pull out a bunch of leaves
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0446.jpg)
better
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0447.jpg)
but still not much movement. you think the rust has any thing to do with that? ...duh!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0449.jpg)
I cleaned up the leaves and greased everything up (and pulled one more leaf). ...lots better!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0450.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0451.jpg)
I added some of the removed leaves to the bottom of the pack to raise the pack (lower the car)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0452.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0453.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0454.jpg)
close enough until the car gets more weight. I'm sure I will have to fine tune it some more.
Somebody on another site questioned my test of the spring rate. Do y'all have any input on the subject?
QuoteIf i'm not misunderstanding your proposed suspension, the control arms will have a leveraging effect on the spring, and the strength of spring will have to be greater than what your trial setup indicates.
Dave Cameron
It will make a slight difference.
Easy enough to put another leaf back in, if that happens.
The front spring rate had to be tested. The only way to be sure that it would work with a-arms was to mount the a-arms....
I made tabs from a piece of 2x3
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2549.jpg)
Bushings in the arms
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2550.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2551.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2554.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2553.jpg)
And a video of dad making stuff move. Springs are just sliding on greased a-arms.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/th_MVI_2555.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/?action=view¤t=MVI_2555.mp4)
It needs shackles and hangers.
the same axle that gave up the spring pack
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2557.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2558.jpg)
The plan is to cut and turn the end.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2560.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2559.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2561.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2562.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2563.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2565.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2566.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2567.jpg)
TADA!!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2568.jpg)
I decided I need to see what the rear spring rate was like before I got too carried away with the front.....
The springs are soft on both ends. The rear sagged more than I was expecting. It needs to be adjusted up an inch or so.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2569.jpg)
I sent this pic to my wife and asked if the noticed anything different. ...her response was "new duck tape?"
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2570.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2571.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2574.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2575.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2576.jpg)
red panels back on
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2577.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2578.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2579.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2580.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2581.jpg)
Dad making racecar noises
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2582.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2583.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2584.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2585.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2586.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2588.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2589.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2590.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2591.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2592.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2597.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2598.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2600.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2603.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2604.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2607.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2616.jpg)
It's been a while since I've seen this.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2617.jpg)
I'm tellin' ya Flipper ..... You keep goin' like this & pretty soon you're gonna have yourself an Auto-Mobile :!: :!: :!:
Looks GREAT... );b( Are you ready for the "What Kit did you use" questions .... :?: :?: :lol:
GOOD JOB..... 8)
Bob..... :wink:
Down off the table and it's lookiin Off the Hook. Keep on goin Flipper.
Its been a while since I updated this thread. Time for another copy/paste session...
All of that tropical moisture pumped in by the former hurricane made it difficult to get interested in doing anything in the shop. I did get the outdoor pics though.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_3075.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_3077.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_3078.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_3079.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_3080.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_3081.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_3083.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_3084.jpg)
I stripped it down (body panels off and engine and trans removed) and rolled it on its side so I could weld up the bottom seams.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4421.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4423.jpg)
I love the fish shape that the body has
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4574.jpg)
After I was done welding, I put the motor back.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4583.jpg)
I really need to figure out floor supports. It needs to connect the front inner frame to the rear inner frame AND put some structure under the area that I will stand on when I step into the car (in front of the seat).
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4581.jpg)
I'm currently thinking about trying the Miller IFS again, but with more of a dipped/dropped look. ....almost if the real miller arms were turned upside down. The upper arm would mount under the top frame rail.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0161.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0162.jpg)
Here is where I was on the front suspension. I-beam lower control arm parallel to the ground, transverse leaf spring just above that, and jag spindles.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4599.jpg)
The original plan when I started this build was somewhat parallel upper arm that attaches to the top of the frame rail.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4607.jpg)
I'm not really feeling it. It takes away from the swoop.
Attaching to the side of the frame helps a little.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4613.jpg)
The "way out there" alternative is the miller-ish, air-foil idea. Make a swoopy tube a-arm and shroud it in sheetmetal. The idea is to go under/around the frame rail with the upper arm. mounting point would be on the back side of the frame rail, up high. .....squint real hard and you might see it.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4606.jpg)
The mock-up pieces are just there to suggest ideas for the upper arms profile. Real arms will have triangulation.
The curved tube idea is based on this cars suspension. The air foil "axle" is really the upper control arm.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0162.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_0161.jpg)
My version would be more of a "dropped axle" and would be made of steel instead of cast aluminum.
This car has the same style suspension on both ends (IFS, IRS and FWD in 1935!)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/Granatelli20Indy20car20Cincy201-8-0.jpg)
I started the morning by swapping in the new balljoints.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4623.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4624.jpg)
gotta cut the bolts down.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4625.jpg)
supporting the weight under the spindle shows what the extra leverage does to the spring rate. I gotta add some leaves back to the pack. The tire is going to be even farther outboard.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4626.jpg)
I shimmed the ride height back up and bolted the hub on to get a more realistic picture of the a-arm's environment
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4630.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4629.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4626.jpg)
I was having a hard time explaining to dad what I wanted to do, so I broke out the posterboard.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4632.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4631.jpg)
it needs a ball joint pocket
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4634.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4635.jpg)
slimmer pocket , more front to back shape
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4639.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4638.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4641.jpg)
And pictures of my future tail lights (5" tractor headlights?). Paint the inside of the lens candy red and load it up with leds from a tractor-trailer tail light.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4619.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4617.jpg)
I couldn't make myself pull the trigger on an arm design yesterday. The drastic sweep up to connect to the ball joint (with room for the spindle to rotate) is what bothers me.
I'm thinking that raising the car a couple of inches would greatly simplify what is required from the upper arm. I'm going to put all of the leaves in the spring and see if that raises it up past where it was supposed to sit....if not, that is a whole new problem.
I guess there is a reason most folks play "in the box".
Scew it. I'l just use bailing wire!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4642.jpg)
I put the spring pack back to what I thought was stock only to find one more leaf afterwards (the one just above the clamps)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4643.jpg)
It did raise it up.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4645.jpg)
...still not sure what the upper arm is going to look like.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4646.jpg)
...looking back at this picture, I don't think the I-beam upper arms would be all that much of a distraction.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_2577.jpg)
Well, I got a chance to go play this weekend.
I dug into a pile and pulled out some 1952 Mercedes front suspension pieces. They don't really work as is, but what else is new.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4652_zpsa9c06db8.jpg)
The cross shaft and spring bucket mount is what is interesting to me.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4655_zpseba363b2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4656_zps78a40020.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4657_zps995f7e04.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4658_zpsd7a7190b.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4661_zps544e1b7d.jpg)
My a-arm kit...some assembly required.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4664_zps59268950.jpg)
Yes the wrench is part of the plan
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4682_zpsd1c5a263.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4683_zps0179ac64.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4684_zps9f4c820e.jpg)
Playing with parts
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4685_zpse4ce69bf.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4686_zps5bf37733.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4688_zps92fbbe11.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4689_zps62df087a.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4690_zpsf9a9c25c.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4691_zpsde381c20.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4692_zps82f79b89.jpg)
It should look something like this. ball joint bolts will be underneath
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4694_zpse2ef8b53.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4695_zpsebf24da3.jpg)
This is where I quit for the day.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4696_zps111ef8f7.jpg)
Oh yeah, I might have also found the dash for the car. Honda lawn mower foot rests.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4649_zpse1f0d13f.jpg)
Driver side of dash
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4650_zps7c270213.jpg)
Passenger side
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4651_zpsea161743.jpg)
I realized I forgot to explain how cool the vintage mercedes pieces are and what the whole plan is... coppied from another board...
Quote from: "dodgedartgt"Can you use those holes in the pivot shaft to mount the shaft like a GM part, so you can shim for caster / camber adjustments?
That is the beauty of using the Mercedes pieces. The pivot bushings are threaded in such a way that the arm can be moved front to back along the shaft.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4691_zpsde381c20.jpg)
The whole a-arm mount will be mounted on a plate that will bolt to the side of the frame and will be shimmable for camber changes.
I have a lot more welding and grinding to go to make it look presentable, but I think I finally found something that has that 30's high tech vibe that I was searching for....
Before I got too carried away, I decided to mark up the second batch of a-arm parts
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4698_zps25547ec2.jpg)
I started on the angled piece this morning
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4700_zps89e9c0b2.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4699_zpsee2aa92c.jpg)
figure out where to trim
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4702_zpsad4fb635.jpg)
trim
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4703_zps930f59c6.jpg)
add some back?
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4706_zpsf2e56035.jpg)
transfer new cut lines
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4707_zps1f351424.jpg)
weld
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4708_zps4eab00ad.jpg)
grind
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4711_zps27b0b649.jpg)
admire
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4710_zps3da690a1.jpg)
grind some more (first arm)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4712_zps15ef9e01.jpg)
grind some more (get rid of open end wrench shape...oh yeah, I welded on the corner pieces too)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4713_zpse08f967c.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4714_zps5862185b.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4716_zps69394f3c.jpg)
start on the next one...
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4718_zps7cff0da4.jpg)
Ingenious!
Well, no rolling chassis this weekend either... The idea I had for making the attachment to the balljoints wasn't going to work. Time for a plan B.
I did do something constructive though.
The last time I moved the car, I did something stupid. To balance it on the chain hoist, I ran the chain around the dash bar and the firewall bar. The leverage pulled the dash bar forward and damaged the frame.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4594.jpg)
Well I worked on making the frame stronger.
First, I cut out the damage and welded in fresh metal.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4723_zpsa07f73b7.jpg)
Then I came up with a reinforcement plate to spread the load out (more cop car metal)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4724_zps4943c904.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4725_zps7631b451.jpg)
glued in
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4726_zps7310d792.jpg)
seriously glued in
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4727_zpse916e1f3.jpg)
top surface ground down
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4728_zpsc32f9901.jpg)
I still have to do the other side....
Next time, I won't lift the whole car by the dash. Engine and trans are coming out.
I worked on figuring out what it will take to get the upper a-arms attached to the frame.
I cut these from a piece of 2x4
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4739_zps019e4d9f.jpg)
so that I could do this
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4741_zps9ae01d3d.jpg)
The idea is to mount the mercedes shafts on plates so that the arms can be bolted to the frame. The problem is that the frame is not square with the world...the rails are pinched.
The arms need to be mounted at an angle.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4743_zps4d9c8813.jpg)
simple enough...in theory
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4745_zps4d1355da.jpg)
now to make it pretty
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4747_zps38c7d5cb.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4749_zpsa70b026f.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4748_zps7f575924.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4751_zps28b2b369.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4750_zpsb35cccf9.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4753_zps7bd541f8.jpg)
make mirror image one too...
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/Flipper_1938/IMG_4752_zps6871369f.jpg).
Next step will be to prep the front rails for the arms.
Well, This project stalled big time....but I think I'm gonna work on it again. I went to the Bunny Run in Jackson, TN this weekend and found a gas tank that looks like it will work for this thing. It is a plastic fuel cell with an aluminum sheet metal cover. I can't find anything like it online, but it looks like it will work for me.
When I got home, I posed it for pictures. looks like I have room to move it up and back if needed.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1548/26456187066_1c1941f06f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GiQSGj)20160416_161803 (https://flic.kr/p/GiQSGj) by Flipper_1938 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/39113630@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1675/26481938925_e0d74e9c51_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Gm7RPT)20160416_204518 (https://flic.kr/p/Gm7RPT) by Flipper_1938 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/39113630@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1700/26389604242_0750922397_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GcXBWA)20160416_204527 (https://flic.kr/p/GcXBWA) by Flipper_1938 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/39113630@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1491/26481864435_6ae4ef17a1_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Gm7tFz)20160416_204615 (https://flic.kr/p/Gm7tFz) by Flipper_1938 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/39113630@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1470/26389527102_8fcccfd27a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GcXe1A)20160416_204545 (https://flic.kr/p/GcXe1A) by Flipper_1938 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/39113630@N02/), on Flickr
I'm glad to see you back on this one again. I've really missed the updates. I'm pretty much the king of stalled projects so I understand.
Tom
I'm glad to see this project back, was thinking of it just a few days ago.
Good to see you back again, saw your truck at Jackson, I was having severe back pains, didn't feel socialable. I've been to therapy & chiropractor several times this week , much better now. 2 weeks 'til Knoxville Nats South, gotta get the '40 coupe cleaned up. Was too sore to clean it before Bunny Run, went in Momma's dd. Ever think about mounting a vise on the bed of your truck bed/work bench??
Yeah I saw you walk by once, but I was talking to somebody else at the time. I never saw you again.
It is hard enough to keep the truck from being a full time work bench as is....
glad to see you back at it , keep on going