The Rodding Roundtable
Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: enjenjo on January 10, 2009, 08:06:25 PM
We need a new project. We built the BBQ trailer, but outside of cleaning after use, there is not a whole lot to do on it.
I would also like to get more people involved in it. I am happy with all the people invloved in the last project, but I would like more people to have input on it.
So, the project we need would be long term, and be able to be moved to different parts of the country, so more than one crew could work on it. I am open to most any project, so lets hear some suggestions.
we could pack crosley up and overhaul him.
can i do the hair? :twisted:
i ain't even ate off the last project yet... :roll:
I agree we need another project. I'll have to think about it some more but the first thing that comes to mind is a Rambler with a big gas tank. Probably wouldn't be worth enough for someone to steal it but if some one needed to borrow it the keys could be found on the kitchen table. There was a lot of interest raised over that building an airplane but that might be a little far fetched. What might be nice is to have 1FATGMC scan SCTA classes and come up with a class that has some open records and build a car and have different groups build different engines that would fit it then we could all meet at Bonneville and spend the week swaping engines. GPster
Lets build a salt flat racer....
tomslik could actually help and go to Bonneville then.
Lets build a single seat 30's sprint style car. I have many of the parts, someone just needs to donate a Model a frame!! We can build it at my place and I'll even volenteer to store it and drive it!!! :D
Well seriously, I hope we can come up with something, being retired now I'd be able to drive down to help!!!!
I have this A frame available....BUT I get to drive too!!!
That does not look like an "A" frame that Henry built.
Quote from: "Crosley"That does not look like an "A" frame that Henry built.
He built "Most" of it :wink:
This topic was discussed on Chat last night. It lasted about 3 hours :shock: There seems to be some interest in it. After thinking about it most of the day today, the only problem I see it there is only one shot a year to run it for the most part. So I have come up with a modification of the idea.
Lets build a drag car, nostalgia altered. Done right, it could be run at Bonneville too. My concept is a modified small car body, Crosley, Metropolitan, or something else in that size. Wheelbase 100" plus. It could be built in stages in different parts of the country. It would be designed to accept most engine/trans combos. Then once it is done, a group in one part of the country could run it in their area with their choice of engine. After a predetermined period, they would pass it along, less engine, to the next group to run with their engine of choice. And so on and so on.
I am not thinking a state of the art drag car, but a more basic one like there was in the 60s. At most a 10" tire on the rear. We would also need to build a trailer to transport it from place to place.
I am sure there are things I am not thinking of, so kick around the idea, and give me some feedback.
Bonneville style cars can also run the mile at Maxton SC, The Texas Mile,
there is a new venue in the north east somewhere, and another in Nevada.
Talk of another one in the north west.
But drag strips are MUCH easier to find, and race more often.
---
A VW Bug body would be easy to find, priced reasonable,
they all look like they were made before the war.
(http://www.volksrods.com/gallery/data/528/niceshot.JPG)
Could look like an Altered. Fenderless, solid axle way out front,
headers coming through where the front fenders used to be.
I know there is a minimum wheelbase specified by NHRA.
Most places don't enforce it unless you get going "too quick".
Moving the front axle centerline forward gets around that problem,
and makes room for a decent motor.
I'll work on that in my mind a while but I like the idea of just running against a record rather than man-to-man. At Bonneville you can keep running to try to get better but at the drags you can go to the line and if you get beat you're done for the day. Is there a class for nostalgia style drag car at Bonneville? Might build a car to do both. Could run the salt and then do the the HAMB drags on the way home and then Goodguys. Also I think they use SCTA rules in the Carolinas on some deserted air strip. Might run some there. I don't invision us coming up with a car for the long course on the salt so it would mostly be an air strip length car. Maybe need to start looking for one of those dual bolt pattern TH350. WE could start with the 2.5L Iron Duke and go through the GM line up. Will a 500 Cadillac bolt to one? GPster
The SCTA rules are tougher than NHRA, because the speeds are higher.
Quote from: "GPster"Is there a class for nostalgia style drag car at Bonneville?
LOTS of SCTA classes, for different body and engine combos.
http://www.scta-bni.org/SCTA-NewWeb/car_classes.htm
With either car design or a combo... there are safety issues and costs folks may not know about.
Safety certs last for 2 years on some items ; lap / shoulder belts, trans shield and other certs will expire. The volume of the needed certs depends on the speed of the car.
Race axles for the differential become a needed item.
Many drag race tracks are adopting an engine diaper rule (tomslik fits this subject) for a 9.90 & faster car.
Just a few items to throw out for thoughts
So, how fast should we plan on building the car for?
Don't forget at Bonneville and El Mirage there are membership fees for the driver, SFI-15 suit for higher speeds, fire systems, new requirements for head restraints starting next year, etc. Would be nice to do and if a group wants to get together at my place to work on it when it's out on the west coast I'm for it, but a car needs to be designed carefully with a specific class in mind. A small engine to put it in a class that doesn't require as much in the way of safety equipment would be better for a LSR type car than automatically designing it for a small block Chevy that might put it in too high of a class.
I don't argue aI don;t think the barbeque trailer was built to be any of those points. It's the perrenial "How fast do you want to go?" Those safety items are necessary but I envision the term "Nostolgia" as being on the lower end (bottom?) of this totem pole. The Bonneville engine would be built for the/a class but the engine and gearing would be aimed for the competition at a chosen event. My understanding of th HAMB drags is that it is as much as winning bragging rights over a chosen competitor (Willys vs. Henry J) as trying to be the overall fastest/quickest. Also I think we have a couple of SCTA licensed drivers in our ranks. I imagine it more a "I've helped someone go fast" rather than an "I've gone fast". I don't think the barbeque trailer was built to be the fastest but just a reason for us to get together to do something for our common good. I take this reouest to be for more of the same. GPster
Hello;
Like all the ideas but mine might seem weird. How about, with all the fully experienced talent here, a green Hot Rod? electric powered? small engine powered? or? 100 mpg?
I saw a U tube about a guy that has an electric powered drag car that kicks butt wherever it goes!
What ever project is decided on should really show innovation and be something almost ahead of it's time.
Bruce
I kinda like that idea about an electric drag car. Something new that would require input from many different people....would definately be a learning curve there!
I like the idea of a drag car as it could be run most anywhere in the country. It should be small and light and not scary fast. Needs a light trailer to pull it.
I really like the idea of an electric powered rail type.
I think there is enough talent in our group to build a cutting edge electric and with ingenuity not cost a mountain of money.
If we were to go that way, we should have a think tank on line to plan resources and design. I'm sure there's lots to learn on the journey.
Hello;
The electric drag car I saw wasn't a rail! It was a small older toyota body! The thing was awesome! It went up against blown Chevies, Corvettes, You name it! The thing had everyone right off of the line and was so far ahead at the end it wasn't even funny! best thing, it never burned out! and was really quiet!!
Bruce
On PassTime the other night there was an electric drag racer that was pretty quick. I don't remember the times, but Ken was impressed. It had a 50hp electric motor where the trans would normally go, just hooked to the rear. I don't think he showed the batteries he was using.
Doug
121 laptop batteries hooked in series? :lol:
Check the price of batteries, and motors.
That stuff adds up quick.
Quote from: "BFS57"Hello;
The electric drag car I saw wasn't a rail! It was a small older toyota body! The thing was awesome! It went up against blown Chevies, Corvettes, You name it! The thing had everyone right off of the line and was so far ahead at the end it wasn't even funny! best thing, it never burned out! and was really quiet!!
Bruce
510 datsun if it's the same one i'm thinking of...
forgot what it ran, something like low 12's maybe
Here is a link to the s10 that was on Pass Time 12 second rig.
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f42/electric-s10-drag-truck-370547/
Read about his rail too 8.1 seconds at 153.6 on batteries!!
here's the Zobie, he's got it under 11.5 seconds!!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrHXdM9f13k
Quote from: "rooster"here's the Zobie, he's got it under 11.5 seconds!!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrHXdM9f13k
Hello;
Thats the ONE!
Bruce
Nostalgia drag car ....... I would listen to Sam of Oklahoma for ideas , suggestions, He has built a few Gasser style drag cars.
I'm way out of the loop being down here in FLA but thought I'd add an idea or two. For a Nostalgia drag car that might work at B-ville also how about an extra long. pointy nosed, Fiat topolino. Kinda like the magazine build of a few years back that ran a Quad 4 Olds. Glass body would be cheap, think Race Rods still makes them. Could be set up like one of the old comp cars from years ago but still have the right characteristics to run the long black line.
And in a totally different direction - does anyone remember the multi-seat aluminum rocket ship that used to ride folks around at the National way back when. I think the last time I saw it was at Columbus back in the 70s. Think it was made from an old amusement park ride. Something off the wall like that could be taken to the Nats and other big meets to shuttle RRTers around the property, and could tow the BBQ trailer. Just thinking outside the box.
I'll get back in the box now.
Lee
electric belly tanker?
something that needs a 4.3 V-6?
i'll donate one;)
electric rambler? :idea: :shock: < get it? :lol:
Quote from: "tomslik"something that needs a 4.3 V-6? i'll donate one;)
I've got one too! An 8.6L V12. We could hook them up to a generator to charge the batteries. GPster
Quote from: "GPster"Quote from: "tomslik"something that needs a 4.3 V-6? i'll donate one;)
I've got one too! An 8.6L V12. We could hook them up to a generator to charge the batteries. GPster
well, i've got 2 of 'em...
V-18 anyone?
Quote from: "tomslik"Quote from: "GPster"Quote from: "tomslik"something that needs a 4.3 V-6? i'll donate one;)
I've got one too! An 8.6L V12. We could hook them up to a generator to charge the batteries. GPster
well, i've got 2 of 'em...
V-18 anyone?
add my 4.3 chev motor in... we have dual side by side V-12 power.
so , are we serious on a race car or a tour wagon of some type?
Well, for me, I like the race car idea. I am not so hot on the electric power. Not that it would not be neat, but once finished, that would be it as far as doing more. Where if we were able to plug in different engines, each group would be able to optimize their setup, then pass it on. Lets have some more discussion, not too many have weighed in on this.
As far as materials, I have some 1.5 by 4" rectangular tubing, more than enough to do a frame. I can also scare up a 9" rear housing, and brakes, I have a carrier, but no good gear, or a spool. With a 10" tire we can probably run a set of 31 spline axles no problem. I don't have a front axle, may be able to scare up a pair of spindles.
Quote from: "enjenjo"Well, for me, I like the race car idea.
Door slammer, or dragster style?
Quote from: "unklian"Quote from: "enjenjo"Well, for me, I like the race car idea.
Door slammer, or dragster style?
Earlier post by enjenjo:
QuoteLets build a drag car, nostalgia altered. Done right, it could be run at Bonneville too. My concept is a modified small car body, Crosley, Metropolitan, or something else in that size. Wheelbase 100" plus. It could be built in stages in different parts of the country. It would be designed to accept most engine/trans combos. Then once it is done, a group in one part of the country could run it in their area with their choice of engine. After a predetermined period, they would pass it along, less engine, to the next group to run with their engine of choice. And so on and so on.
I am not thinking a state of the art drag car, but a more basic one like there was in the 60s. At most a 10" tire on the rear. We would also need to build a trailer to transport it from place to place.
:? ......... seems wide open for design so far
Quote from: "enjenjo"Well, for me, I like the race car idea. I am not so hot on the electric power. Not that it would not be neat, but once finished, that would be it as far as doing more. Where if we were able to plug in different engines, each group would be able to optimize their setup, then pass it on. Lets have some more discussion, not too many have weighed in on this.
As far as materials, I have some 1.5 by 4" rectangular tubing, more than enough to do a frame. I can also scare up a 9" rear housing, and brakes, I have a carrier, but no good gear, or a spool. With a 10" tire we can probably run a set of 31 spline axles no problem. I don't have a front axle, may be able to scare up a pair of spindles.
i bought a narrowing jig for a 9" i haven't tried out yet;) and an extra set of 4.10's....
i've seen spools on ebay for less than 100 bucks...
I think a dragster vs a bodied car would be cheaper. But something like an old Henry J gasser style would be neat also. A dragster would not need as big or heavy duty a trailer as a bodied car either. A light weight single axle trailer would be fine for a dragster
Quote from: "unklian"Quote from: "GPster"Is there a class for nostalgia style drag car at Bonneville?
LOTS of SCTA classes, for different body and engine combos.
http://www.scta-bni.org/SCTA-NewWeb/car_classes.htm
We need to see this type of class listings for a Nostalgia drag car. My problem is when a discussion like this starts I only look at the newest entry and I don't always go back through all the back comments. This site had been given to a question I had asked and I had missed it but an answer to the drag car part of my question still hasn't appeared. In rules what are we talking about and/or what other parts of a drag sanction could we hit? Just as an idea: suppose you built an Chevy SCTA production pickup. You could power it with a four cylinder, straight six, "Jimmy", V6, SB V8 (262" - 408"), BB V8 (366" - 502"). If you used a body style before '66 (?) you could change gearing and run the HAMB drags. I'd like to see the drag sanction rules and see how it could work from the other direction. Can a chassis be built as a dragster and put a body on it and be an altered. Can this Forum be read in the printer friendly mode and show all this discussion on one page and can it be sent as a private message to people with a lot of appearances on this site so maybe there is more people comment than just 10 (?). As an extra note, I've been 2 hours constructing this comment so it wouldn't hurt anybodies feelings. GPster
Joe, you brought up some stuff I agree with. Like a car with a frame/chassis that would be adaptable to almost anything....drag racing, lakes, circle, baha, sand, mud, ice racing ....whatever curious gearhead's minds come up with...even....cough, cough....electric.
The frame is the heart of the car, so some of the real chassis experts here could come up with a frame that could do most anything that members would want to do just by bolting different things on to it.
It's always hard to get a big group of people to agree 100% on anything but if some like-minded people have a vision and some ambition, they could have a turn at playing. Throw on a body (or not), a motor and have fun for a while.
Sounds like good therapy for some us that are getting a little older and could use some 2nd childhood fun.
Ice racing ? Might be interesting, depending on the rules.
Any of the cars I've seen seem pretty beat up though.
Quote from: "unklian"Ice racing ? Might be interesting, depending on the rules.
Any of the cars I've seen seem pretty beat up though.
We do that a lot down here in FLA. You have to race to the store when you run out of ice. No rules though? That is what you guys were talking about, right?
Lee
Quote from: "unklian"Ice racing ? Might be interesting, depending on the rules.
Any of the cars I've seen seem pretty beat up though.
Well, my last post was made late at night after a couple Labatts so consider the source. :wink: ....just more random thoughts to add to the pile.
I think a drag car makes the most sense but I was thinking that something built initially with as many different build options as possible might help stir the creative juices.
I'm taking the grandkids to a monster truck jam today....notice I didn't mention that option... :roll:
Quote from: "Grandadeo"Quote from: "unklian"Ice racing ?....
We do that a lot down here in FLA. You have to race to the store when you run out of ice. No rules though? That is what you guys were talking about, right?
Lee
Lee, I thought Fla has a senior driving license....no rules required. :wink:
I just got the new Hot Rod Magazine, there is an article on the fast 4 racing team. that car is pretty much what I have in mind. Real low buck. And set up right it could run in several types of racing, with a bunch of different power plants. Even electric. :lol:
Quote from: "enjenjo"I just got the new Hot Rod Magazine, there is an article on the fast 4 racing team. that car is pretty much what I have in mind. Real low buck. And set up right it could run in several types of racing, with a bunch of different power plants. Even electric. :lol:
SUBSCRIPTION? I'm headed to the library to see if they have this issue. If not I'll head to the grocery store and see if I can read it there. GPster
Everyone scrambles looking for the latest Hot Rod magazine ...
What is on the cover, so I know I've found the right one ?
I think from investigating it is the March issue of Hot Rod. I thought by the name that it was a team effort but the Fast Four refers to the car which is a vitage Dodge roadster powered by a one-year-only Dodge flathead four. It is an interesting article but for me not worth the price of the magazine. My library quit subscribiing to Hot Rod and there wasn't a copier in the grocery store. While I still thought that it was a team name I envisionedus coming up with a name "Half-Fast 8" gut maybe that would still work. How about we take a SBC and only run it on four cylinders. Use the other four cylinderto work like an air compressor to power a turbo-charger with cool air. We could have a cam ground that open and close the compressor cylinders every revolution so that the compressor cylinders never pumped against pressure and there shouldn't be a need for an inter-cooler because it would be cool air through the turbo. Or maybe we could run it like a diesel, out of the compressor cylinder into the intake of a combustion cylinder. GPster
Rambler , 1967 car. tube chassis , straight axle in the front. Gasser style.
Blue lexan winders.
Quote from: "enjenjo"I just got the new Hot Rod Magazine, there is an article on the fast 4 racing team. that car is pretty much what I have in mind. Real low buck. And set up right it could run in several types of racing, with a bunch of different power plants. Even electric. :lol:
Pictures would be good.
Too cold here to go to the magazine store today.
Quote from: "unklian"Quote from: "enjenjo"I just got the new Hot Rod Magazine, there is an article on the fast 4 racing team. that car is pretty much what I have in mind. Real low buck. And set up right it could run in several types of racing, with a bunch of different power plants. Even electric. :lol:
Pictures would be good.
Too cold here to go to the magazine store today.
http://jrodart.wordpress.com/2008/08/13/montana-dodge-boys-fast-four-special-hoping-for-a-record-at-the-bonneville-salt-flats-4/
all i could find
later jim
Just a couple more tidbits. I believe the record it set was 107.5 MPH. somewhere in the article it mentioned 117 MPH but I don't know if it bumped it's own record (aka Holley) or that was just one run that week. The engine is a Dodge flathead four that was only made on year an I think it's 208". That body has rear fenders that I think might be a determining factor in what vintage roadster class it is running. Now, going from the other direction. I Googled Nostalgic Drag racing and it came back under NHRA. They have rules (I'm not surprised, probably for liabilities). Their rules cover about 76 pages and I may be reading it wrong but it almost looks to me like "Pinks All Out". There seems to be classes but they are further broken down by ETs not engine size. There's also a lot of classes that require full 4 wheel suspension with shocks and 4 wheel brakes. This searching of mine is not meant to kill any part of the idea, just trying to encourage more susgestions. GPster
Vintage Engine classes, from the DLRA rule book
http://www.dlra.org.au/docs/dlrarules.pdf
XF class: Ford Flathead V8 1932- '53. 325 cubes max
XO class consists of OHV and Flathead inline,
and Flathead V8(excluding Ford & Mercury), and V12 engines,
1959 or earlier designs, up to 325 cubes max.
Domestic motors only.
XXF is a XF motor with overhead conversion heads, eg ARDUN
XXO is an XO motor with a "specialty" cylinder head eg Wayne 12 port.
X class engines, described above, over 325 but under 375 cubes
will be classified as XXF or XXO. Specialty heads will not be allowed.
XX/PRO class is limited to cylinder head port configuration as originally designed. This applies to XXF and XXO classes.
V4F pre '35 American made 4 cyl up to 220 cubes
V4 pre '35 American made 4 cyl up to 220 cubes,
"Specialty" heads allowed.
I don't know how strict they are on what is considered a "specialty head".
Quote from: "unklian"Ice racing ?
Saw pics of someone running a winged Sprint Car on Ice.:shock:
Sounds like big time fun, :D
but also BIG TIME COLD. :x :(
Quote from: "unklian"Vintage Engine classes, from the DLRA rule book
http://www.dlra.org.au/docs/dlrarules.pdf
XF class: Ford Flathead V8 1932- '53. 325 cubes max
XO class consists of OHV and Flathead inline,
and Flathead V8(excluding Ford & Mercury), and V12 engines,
1959 or earlier designs, up to 325 cubes max.
Domestic motors only.
XXF is a XF motor with overhead conversion heads, eg ARDUN
XXO is an XO motor with a "specialty" cylinder head eg Wayne 12 port.
X class engines, described above, over 325 but under 375 cubes
will be classified as XXF or XXO. Specialty heads will not be allowed.
XX/PRO class is limited to cylinder head port configuration as originally designed. This applies to XXF and XXO classes.
V4F pre '35 American made 4 cyl up to 220 cubes
V4 pre '35 American made 4 cyl up to 220 cubes,
"Specialty" heads allowed.
I was wonder where the cubic inch breaks were. I was hoping there was a 4 cylinder under 200 inches so something like a Willys engine (Whippet) wouldn't have to run against Ts As Bs or that Dodge. Shoots that thinking out the window. Every once in a while there's an ad down here for a restoreable Whippetwith enough parts to make almost 2 cars but the dollar/fun ratio would be too high. I have a friend that has a '24 Chevy that was cut-up and turned into a tractor but he only has the one and it's probably locked-up. He also has a Model T style six cylinder (probably from a Model K) but he bought it at a Ford auction just to use as the base for a coffee table. He ran junkyard that his son took over so he's constantly told how many things he's done wrong so I'll leave him with those two memories. Good CHAT last night. Need for more people to get involved in this idea. GPster
Quote from: "unklian"I don't know how strict they are on what is considered a "specialty head".
That gives me another thought What if you put a sparkplug in a diesel head? were there any early four cylinder diesel engines that we could play with and make gas engine out of? Might get some SIZE out of it that way> GPster
I didn't know about the boys out of Bozeman until I got the Magazine the other day, and I am only 90 miles away.
Anyway, on Joe's comment, look at the super stock tractor pullers. They have built a head for them and run alcohol, so must have plugs in them. They have to use the diesel block. They seem to be so sucessful that the class has been seperated into 2, one for oil and one for alcohol.
Doug
Quote from: "unklian"
XO class consists of OHV and Flathead inline,
and Flathead V8(excluding Ford & Mercury), and V12 engines,
1959 or earlier designs, up to 325 cubes max.
Domestic motors only.
XXO is an XO motor with a "specialty" cylinder head eg Wayne 12 port.
X class engines, described above, over 325 but under 375 cubes
will be classified as XXF or XXO. Specialty heads will not be allowed.
V4 pre '35 American made 4 cyl up to 220 cubes,
"Specialty" heads allowed.
"Specialty" cylinder heads means you can adapt
a different head as long as the cam stays in the block.
eg Cut and weld v8 heads together to run on an inline 6.
Quote from: "sirstude"
Anyway, on Joe's comment, look at the super stock tractor pullers. They have built a head for them and run alcohol, so must have plugs in them. They have to use the diesel block. They seem to be so sucessful that the class has been seperated into 2, one for oil and one for alcohol.
Doug
Some of those heads are VERY expensive.
Quote from: "GPster"Quote from: "unklian"I don't know how strict they are on what is considered a "specialty head".
That gives me another thought What if you put a sparkplug in a diesel head? were there any early four cylinder diesel engines that we could play with and make gas engine out of? Might get some SIZE out of it that way> GPster
John Deere made some big 4 cyl diesels, don't know if
they are old enough for Vintage.
The cool thing about them is the Cadillac cylinder heads
have the same bolt pattern.Only the dowels are different.
So running on gasoline would be no problem.
I wonder if they made a 6 cyl, that would be closer to the class size limit ?
The 4.5 liter 4 cyl is ONLY 275 cubes. The limit is 325.
I was sure those heads were EXPEN$IVE, just thinking out of the box a bit. Always keep in mind, "speed costs, how fast do you want to go?" I sure do like the options of keeping things as open as possible, since meeting classs rules seems to drive the prices up too.
Doug
Quote from: "unklian"Quote from: "GPster"Quote from: "unklian"I don't know how strict they are on what is considered a "specialty head".
That gives me another thought What if you put a sparkplug in a diesel head? were there any early four cylinder diesel engines that we could play with and make gas engine out of? Might get some SIZE out of it that way> GPster
John Deere made some big 4 cyl diesels, don't know if
they are old enough for Vintage.
The cool thing about them is the Cadillac cylinder heads
have the same bolt pattern.Only the dowels are different.
So running on gasoline would be no problem.
I wonder if they made a 6 cyl, that would be closer to the class size limit ?
The 4.5 liter 4 cyl is ONLY 275 cubes. The limit is 325.
One thing about the John Deer blocks, they are THICK. I have bored them as much as .150" over without problems in field tractors, and They mill the deck as much as .250 for more compression in out of field tractor pulling. With a little more stroke you should be near the limit.
No good, the first John Deere 4 came out in 1961. :cry:
Quote from: "unklian"The 4.5 liter 4 cyl is ONLY 275 cubes. The limit is 325.
Every time I read it I see something different. The four cylinders are limited to 220". If you get bigger than that you're running with/against the sixes and eights. We need to investigate that "corn Binder" engine more that we were talking about last night and go for the cubes that way. How big is it and is in older than '59. If we start looking at a class that's running over 120MPH (?) we maybe ought to have the longer wheelbase we'll nee to get a longer engine infront of the firewall. GPster
Quote from: "GPster"Quote from: "unklian"The 4.5 liter 4 cyl is ONLY 275 cubes. The limit is 325.
Every time I read it I see something different.
SCTA rules are like that. :roll:
Really need a current rule book.
Quote from: "GPster"The four cylinders are limited to 220".
If you get bigger than that you're running with/against the sixes and eights.
In V4 and V4F: pre '35 4 cyl are limited to 220"
In XO, you would be against the 325" limit. :(D) Good luck.
Remember the 292 Chevy 6 cyl truck motor ?
Or the Ford 300" six ? When did they come out ?
The '59 cut off was probably picked for a reason.
Did Frank say the IH motor was 275 cubes ?
I have a 41 Buick Straight 8 sitting in my parts car out at the ranch if that is of interest to anyone. I think it is a special so that would make it 248 inches so probably not a good fit.
Quote from: "unklian"
Remember the 292 Chevy 6 cyl truck motor ?
Or the Ford 300" six ? When did they come out ?
The '59 cut off was probably picked for a reason.
Searching on Inliners.org the 292 Chevy seems to be early 60s.
No idea on the Ford 300 so far.
Quote from: "sirstude"I have a 41 Buick Straight 8 sitting in my parts car out at the ranch if that is of interest to anyone. I think it is a special so that would make it 248 inches so probably not a good fit.
The straight 8 came in 3 displacements, 248, 263, 320
There might be other differences between the big
and small straight 8 motors, besides bore and stroke.
QuoteRemember the 292 Chevy 6 cyl truck motor ?
Or the Ford 300" six ? When did they come out ?
The '59 cut off was probably picked for a reason.
Did Frank say the IH motor was 275 cubes ?
292 chevy came out in 63 300 Ford was 65
The International I have is a 57 Blue Diamond 262 cubes.
The Chevy and GMC heads have siamese intake ports,
which ultimately hurts performance.
How does the IH cylinder head compare ?
Any ideas on the stock bore/stroke ?
Quote from: "unklian"The Chevy and GMC heads have siamese intake ports,
which ultimately hurts performance. How does the IH cylinder head compare ? Any ideas on the stock bore/stroke ?
I just went for a quick look and couldn't find any pictures but they also mentioned a Black diamond group which is larger and a Red diamond group that has its smallest one at 372". Imagine that in a Metropolitan. GPster
Quote from: "unklian"The Chevy and GMC heads have siamese intake ports,
which ultimately hurts performance.
How does the IH cylinder head compare ?
Any ideas on the stock bore/stroke ?
I'll have to dig out my books for that info. I think it's a 12 port head.
Nothing here:
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/m-table-c.htm#IH
A Monza 2+2 would be a nice body, for aerodynamics,
it has to be be smaller than the '53 Stude.
(http://www.gmphotostore.com/images/53218787_pr.jpg)
Imagine it with the front stretched, and the roof chopped.
Might be easier to find than a Opel GT, or Metropolitan.
Quote from: "unklian"A Monza 2+2 would be a nice body, for aerodynamics,
it has to be be smaller than the '53 Stude.
(http://www.gmphotostore.com/images/53218787_pr.jpg)
Imagine it with the front stretched, and the roof chopped.
Might be easier to find than a Opel GT, or Metropolitan.
I've been thinking about that too. If this was to be purely a Bonneville effort that would be a good choice but for a drag car a Metropolitan with a stretched nose would be an eye catcher and it would put the driver nearer the rear end for ballast (?). I don't know if this is headed to a class that requires an "American" body because it would probably need "N OSED" but how about an old Volvo (the one that looks like a scaled-down '48 Ford sedan). If you lengthed the nose on one of them you could get the front of the hood almost to a point. If you used side-draft carbs you'd only need a ridge in the hood for rocker arm cover clearance. GPster
Look up my favorite, a Saab Sonnet, 2 seat very little car. Here is a pic of the Sonnet III, but he Sonnet IV was a bit cleaner.
And yes I got this from Carnut's site.
http://www.carnut.com/cgi-bin/04/image.pl?/show/04/all/all104.jpg
Volvo Amazon
(http://www.viztech.se/amma_webgallery/images/VOLVO-AMAZON-1961-4door_new.jpg)
Quote from: "GPster"... but for a drag car a Metropolitan with a stretched nose would be an eye catcher and it would put the driver nearer the rear end for ballast (?).
Yes, a Pro Mod inspired Nash Metropolitan would be an eye catcher.
Maintaining much of the original identity could be a priority.
---
Moving the driver back a little isn't a problem.
At Bonneville, large amounts of ballast are commonly
used to combat lift, instead of using wings, which cause drag.
An Opel GT for Modified Sports. I think the roof could be chopped legally.
(http://www.blackopel.com/graphics/opel2007.jpg)
Crosley ?
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-1/204-1-06.jpg)
(http://www.carnut.com/show/04/march/mar010.jpg)
(http://www.carnut.com/show/03/hamb/hamb018.jpg)
(http://www.carnut.com/show/03/hamb/hamb020.jpg)
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=325999&d=1182889417
The extended wheelbase was a common early 60's drag race trick.
Interesting topic.
Remember that the #974 Studebaker was to be a multipurpose vehicle. It still has the wheel tubs and we have had some big slicks on it when we ran it on the chassis dyno. Needless to say that now it weighs in at way over 5,000 pounds, and it would not do well at the drags. Some have been competitive at Bonneville, and have ran the same vehicle at the drags, and on the street, but it is hard to do.
As mentioned the SCTA safety equipment is very expensive.
My experience is that the more you stray from a SBC with a 350 transmission, the more expensive it gets. Small odd engines can cost a lot to build. Of course what is the fun of being just like everyone else.
This last fall we looked hard at replacing the engine in the 974 and going to a vintage engine class. We were looking at the 302 GMC. To be competitive my estimate was that the engine build and change over would cost about $10,000.
Just my thoughts.
John
Yes, oddball motors can get expensive quick,
based on how competitive you want to be.
---
A few cool drag cars in this thread:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306543
Crosley:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=540623&d=1227739310
Metropolitan:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=4685&pictureid=39417
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=4685&pictureid=39418
Quote from: "WZ JUNK".. it weighs in at way over 5,000 pounds, and it would not do well at the drags.
It would do a lot better with all the ballast removed.
Quote from: "unklian"Quote from: "WZ JUNK".. it weighs in at way over 5,000 pounds, and it would not do well at the drags.
It would do a lot better with all the ballast removed.
My idea too. Of course I'm thinking just the basic body and chassis as dual purpose, the drivetrain would be different for each venue, drags, or the salt.
The other thing, I am not thinking the salt this year, or even the drags this year. This can be a long term project. Right now, I don't have a good enough understanding of the rules to decide on how to build it to gain the most advantage.
I kind of like the Crosley coupe drag car, for the general concept. For the drags, you could have a short front end that would leave the whole front of the frame exposed. for the salt, a longer front end that would take advantage of the streamlining allowed. It could be run with a vintage engine on the salt, and most anything at the drags. At most drag strips today, it would have to run as a bracket racer, as they don't do much class racing any more, so ET would be the deciding factor, rather than running against a record. For the salt, if need be, the floor could be made of 1/2" steel plate to get the weight where we want it.
I am not looking for a record car, but I feel we have a better chance of at least being within shouting distance of the record using a Vintage engine at Bville. For the drags, anything will do.
My idea is a rail chassis, funny car cage, straight axle front with either a cross spring, or torsion bars. For the rear ladder bars with either coilovers, or struts depending on what we are doing with it at the time. For a rear end, either a 9", or a sprint car quickchange.
Lets hear what's wrong with my idea.
I like a plan. From looking at NHRA rules it looks like what they are calling Nostalgia (ic) Eliminator. I like the idea of a Quick Change but I wonder about money right off because the rear end will be part of the frame construction. 9" rear ratios arond here for the dirt track guys seem to have numbers around 5.38 and I'm sure there are a lot of ratios available. Isn't there a set-pu that you make 9"ers like floating truck axels? It wouldn't be that hard to change "pumpkins" if you just pulled the axels and the brakes and wheels stayed intact. Plus every org. wants some realization that the wheels won't fly off if you brake an axel. We could collect "pumpkins" as we go along. I like the look of an altered with the wheels in front of the body but with the idea that maybe it might make it to Bonneville I'd like to see frame in front of the axel and wheels. When the nose gets pulled foreward to cover the wheels I'd rather see a frame to fasten it to. Also the longer frame might be easier to fatsen a tow bar too and with the axels it would be easier to move around. So my suggestion would be for a pair of springs on the front end. GPster
XXO would get REAL expensive very fast,
so with the IH 6 cyl, that leaves XO.
XO motors are legal in Competition Coupe,
BUT the body needs to originally have 4 seats to be legal.
The 4 seat requirement doesn't apply to pre '48 bodies.
I think the Metropolitan was a 2 seater.
XO is NOT eligible for Modified Sports (2 seaters)
XO is eligible for Modified Pick Up.
http://www.scta-bni.org/SCTA-NewWeb/car_classes.htm#top
QuoteBUT the body needs to originally have 4 seats to be legal.
So we would need a wagon if they made one. Or some other body.
What was the first year on the Crosley ? I know nothing about them.
I'm assuming this car is legal:
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-1/204-1-06.jpg
Maybe it was grandfathered in ?
The aerodynamics on a Wagon wouldn't be great.
Not a major crisis for drag racing, but it would hurt at Bonneville.
A sloped rear window would be better.
Long overhang on back would also help.
Quote from: "enjenjo"
So we would need a wagon if they made one. Or some other body.
They made lots of wagons.
http://crosleyautoclub.com/ID.html
(http://crosleyautoclub.com/08Nationals/2-Friday/Images/2008CAC_174.jpg)
Roof looks chopped, hood was stretched to fit a Buick straight 8.
(http://crosleyautoclub.com/08Nationals/2-Friday/Images/2008CAC_171.jpg)
Tires hanging out would be ok for drag racing,
definately hurt top speed though.
---
This was at Billetproof last year.
215 Buick.
http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk237/fms427/crosley%20two/
http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk237/fms427/Crosley%20Early/
http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk237/fms427/CROSLEY/
How about a Fiat 500 or 600 ?
Very small, will have to find out of they seat 4 people.
Quote from: "unklian"What was the first year on the Crosley ?
1939 i believe
I know nothing about them.
I'm assuming this car is legal:
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-1/204-1-06.jpg
Maybe it was grandfathered in ?
The aerodynamics on a Wagon wouldn't be great.
Not a major crisis for drag racing, but it would hurt at Bonneville.
A sloped rear window would be better.
Long overhang on back would also help.
The Fiat 500 and 600 are 4 seaters. No larger than an Austin Mini.
The Austin America was slightly larger.
(http://www.vintagecarconnection.com/Copy%20of%201969%20Austin%20America.jpg)
---
Does anyone here have a body shell they think would be suitable ?
Crosley was 1939 introduction at the worlds fair in new york... Crosley for the most part were 4 seat cars.... the pickups, sports car models were 2 seaters.
Crosley cars serious changed after the big war ended. 1946 was the first post war production car.... still a 4 seater.
How hard to find a suitable one ?
not gasser type but certainly a drag candidate
http://wyoming.craigslist.org/cto/992253374.html
Quote from: "phat rat"not gasser type but certainly a drag candidate
http://wyoming.craigslist.org/cto/992253374.html
I think Frank wanted something a little lighter.
---
Anyone remember the Chevette that Hot Rod Magazine did ?
They cut out the firewall out completely and squeezed a big
Caddy motor in there. Driver wore a Funny Car style suit.
Ran pretty quick for what it was.
The pictures of the straight 8 Crosley was taken at the National Crosley meet, about 10 miles from here. I was there, and looked at that car. I like the looks of it a lot. A Crosley body would get us into the Vintage class too. They are not that hard to find, a really rough one would work for what we want to do.
A Fiat 600 would work too. Even a Yugo. :shock:
International did make a 501 cube straight 6, but that would definitely be XXo class.
Outside of the fact that I have one, International engines have some speed equipment out there, since they were used in circle track racing in the 80s and 60s.
Quote from: "enjenjo"International did make a 501 cube straight 6, but that would definitely be XXo class.
Outside of the fact that I have one, International engines have some speed equipment out there, since they were used in circle track racing in the 80s and 60s.
The way I read it XXO is 325 cube to 375 cube and if you use a speciality racing head you'll have to be under 325 cube. What little I saw quickly was that the International Black Diamond has a 308 cube which would be ok with a racing head fo XXO or the Red Diamond starts out with a 372 cube which would be OK with a stock head if it was stock bore/stroke. That may be accomplished because the cylinder liners (?) are removable so you could keep stock bore. This might be a hard find but there seems to have been a Red Diamond made for the military in 1941 (WWII) that was 361 cube which would give a little bit more machining room. This certainly is not meant to correct butthis is from the information of DLRA which is supposed to be similar to SCTA. GPster
Quote from: "unklian"Quote from: "phat rat"not gasser type but certainly a drag candidate
http://wyoming.craigslist.org/cto/992253374.html
I think Frank wanted something a little lighter.
---.
Ok here's lighter
http://wyoming.craigslist.org/cto/993319599.html
I haven't found any Crosleys yet
Ureka! check this out. It's also closer.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___Crosley-2-Door-Station-Wagon-This-is-a-CLASSIC_W0QQitemZ330301743394QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item330301743394&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A317%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
Quote from: "phat rat"Quote from: "unklian"Quote from: "phat rat"not gasser type but certainly a drag candidate
http://wyoming.craigslist.org/cto/992253374.html
I think Frank wanted something a little lighter.
---.
Ok here's lighter
http://wyoming.craigslist.org/cto/993319599.html
I haven't found any Crosleys yet
Ureka! check this out. It's also closer.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___Crosley-2-Door-Station-Wagon-This-is-a-CLASSIC_W0QQitemZ330301743394QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item330301743394&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A317%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
i can go pick that up for ya.....
i'm about 10 miles south of loveland :lol:
From my rust belt perspective that Henry J looks like it's in decent shape.
I wasn't in chat but I've been wondering if anyone has brought up how a build would be financed. Sometimes deals don't last long and need to be jumped on when the opportunity is there....even if it's just a sale on needed parts. That would require a pot of cash.....or Crosley's credit card :wink:
I like the profile of the Henry J, but the Crosley is probably smaller.
That wagon is listed as a '49.
Are the bodies exactly the same as a '48 ?
---
I think a larger XO motor, in XXO, wouldn't stand much
of a chance against motors with modern "specialty" heads.
Quote from: "unklian"I like the profile of the Henry J, but the Crosley is probably smaller.
That wagon is listed as a '49.
Are the bodies exactly the same as a '48 ?
I think a larger XO motor, in XXO, wouldn't stand much
of a chance against motors with modern "specialty" heads.
If it starts out and stays as a drag car I think the Crosley has a nostralgic flare with it and I like the uniqueness of a big six. If we ever were going to try Bonneville I see us getting in over our head real quick with a Crosley because of the classes. I would'nt think it would run any engine without a re-designed/lengthened hood and a drag car might be comfortable with the wheels outside the body but what would it be like on the salt with the wheels hanging outside that nose (lengthened)? Something like the Henry J would still be nostalgic on the drag strip. It would give you a chance to run the wheels under the body and maybe an XO engine under the hood but because it's newer than '48 it's just a Classic body not a Vintage body so on the salt that might be a deeper class. I'm not trying to be a lawyer on/for either side, I'm just fumbling threw the information as I find it and I certainly don't want to do anything to quell this enthusiasm. Someone on this subject showed a link to Crosley and I think it shower the '48 to be the same car with an extra piece of chrome on the nose. GPster
Quote from: "purplepickup"From my rust belt perspective that Henry J looks like it's in decent shape.I wasn't in chat but I've been wondering if anyone has brought up how a build would be financed. Sometimes deals don't last long and need to be jumped on when the opportunity is there....even if it's just a sale on needed parts. That would require a pot of cash.....or Crosley's credit card :wink:
Towards the end of CHAT it was suggested that maybe we would have a Chat in the middle of this week to hash over some more. Thinking he might have meant tonight I'd probably ought to take a nap this afternoon. GPster
Tonight at 9 pm works for me. I'm all for Crosley's credit card myself. :D
http://www.roddingroundtable.com/forums/chat/flashchat.php
Quote from: "enjenjo"I'm all for Crosley's credit card myself. :D
Should that be put to a vote, or are you
just going to make an "executive decision" ?
);b(
Quote from: "GPster"If it starts out and stays as a drag car I think the Crosley has a nostralgic flare with it and I like the uniqueness of a big six. If we ever were going to try Bonneville I see us getting in over our head real quick with a Crosley because of the classes. I would'nt think it would run any engine without a re-designed/lengthened hood and ....
The nose can be stretched and modified,
for Bonneville, in Competition Coupe.
The roof can also be chopped, engine set back, etc.
A '48 Crosley would be legal in Vintage, a '52 Henry J would compete against much newer, more aerodynamic bodies.
Unless they made a '48 Henry J. :idea:
more for drag
http://www.racingjunk.com/post/1432264/1948-Thames-Anglia-Gasser-Nostalgia-Willys-.html
http://www.racingjunk.com/post/1436328/1957-Anglia-Thames-Panel-Truck-Old-Race-Car-.html
we had a good chat, didn't solve many problems, but did come up with some good ideas. I sent a copy of the chat to several members that seemed interested, any one else that wants a copy, PM me, and I'll send it to you.
A synopsis of the chat, we discussed selling shares in the car to finance it. Still no decision on a body style. We pretty much agreed that it would be a drag car with an eye to Bville later if possible. If shares are sold, it would be set up with a board of directors to design and oversee the build of the car.
Let us know if there are any questions.
'58 Anglia 2 door in CO $550
http://www.racingjunk.com/post/1396498/58-anglia.....-55-studebaker....50-ford....html
'58 Fiat 1100 sedan on Ebay
auction # 130282695186
(http://i7.ebayimg.com/07/i/001/22/da/3b53_1.JPG)
(http://i7.ebayimg.com/08/i/001/22/da/5109_1.JPG)
Located in LOS ANGELES CALIF
http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/992593297.html
Volvo Amazon in Ohio
$2K
Ebay # 190281626121
'87 Honda CRX
Greenville, OH
Buy it now $550
Small, light, pretty decent aerodynamics, priced reasonable,
not too high on the "cool scale" though.
Quote from: "unklian"http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/992593297.html
Volvo Amazon in Ohio $2K
I spent a little time yesterday trying to tie my Volvo idea to a model. What I was talking about was a '47 to '58 (?) Volvo PV444. That body style was continued til '62 (?) as a PV544 but had one piece curved windshield that would make it harder to chop than the earlier models 2 piece windshield with flat glass. These things are uni-body but if you were to build a frame under it that shouldn't matter. Google Volvo PV444 and you'll find pictures. I know where there is one but I'm still temporarily vehicle-less. I also know where there is at least one Crosley wagon (may be a '51) and another place where there is one sedan but the sedan has been in visual range at least 30 years and hasn't been moved. I've also heard of a restorer's collection of Crosleys and parts that has become the possession of a retired (?) used car dealer. None of his possessions are hitting the local market so I need to find more about them by word of mouth investigation. 50 degrees today will be a work on the truck day. 31 degrees and wife/weekend will probably only leave me with ideas til a snowy freezing Monday. GPster
Volvo PV444
(http://es.motorfull.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/Volvo%20PV.gif)
(http://www.schlijper.nl/archive/2007/07/070718-volvo-pv444.jpg)
I do not see the Volvo car as a viable option for this project.
Pehaps auctions can be used to raise money as well. Someone has something they no longer needs/wants so they auction it off on the RRT with all the funds going directly into an RRT Project Paypal acct. Once the money is received in the acct the item is shipped to it's new owner on the dime of the old owner.
That is a possibility too. I was expecting more discussion on this. So far, there has been none to speak of. I am not married to this idea, but if you have another, speak up.
I liked the idea of the electric racer, but I don't see much room for innovation once it's built. With a racer like this, it could be electric powered when that group has the car, and IC powered when another group has it.
I want someting different enough that people will remember that bunch of idiots on the internet.
I was surprised there was no discussion on CHAT last night. I'm also surprised that there is no more attention to this site than there is. I like the idea of doing something and I like the idea about thinking of doing something. You see what kind of ideas I come up with with-out any direction so a little discussion on this subject might help warm weather come quicker. GPster
wheel base? Longer is more stable on salt or asphalt.
Body; do we want a body that covers all 4 tyres or only the back 2 or none?
Narrow body; this would help speeds at both formats
More standard width body; Less cost on some items maybe (Narrowed rear differential) ?
Would we look for a unfinished project to save time and (?) money ?
OR just start project from scratch so it is all RRT built?
Trailer; tandem axle type are more stable IMHO. I prefer Electric brakes on both axles
Quote from: "Crosley"wheel base? Longer is more stable on salt or asphalt.
If you need to stretch something for an engine like a 372 cube International straight six it needs to be done and keep from the cowl back a stock profile
Body; do we want a body that covers all 4 tyres or only the back 2 or none
Covers all four tires
Narrow body; this would help speeds at both formats
Newer bodies are suppose to have sitting for four people
More standard width body; Less cost on some items maybe (Narrowed rear differential) ?
A narrow body like a Crosley with slab sides would have a narrower tread width than a body that has fenders that stick out from the body. There was some talk of a sprint car style of quick change
Would we look for a unfinished project to save time and (?) money ?
The idea was statred because of the need for us to get together and do something
OR just start project from scratch so it is all RRT built?
Trailer; tandem axle type are more stable IMHO. I prefer Electric brakes on both axles
These are just some of the things I was looking at with my suggestion of that Volvo.Your ideas are rightand are the things I had in mind when I made that suggestion but if it's not right that's OK. GPster
Joe,
I edited your post with my 'quoted paragraphs" in it.. I changed your words to blue so folks would see what your added comments to my words. :D
I am thinking 120" wheelbase. This is long enough for good handling, enough room for any powerplant, and should have good weight bias. A basic rail frame with a four link or ladder bars in the rear and coil over shocks, straight axle in the front. Cage and bracing as required.
I like the crosley coupe body, it has good aero for the most part, and is a bit traditional for drag racing. For the drags, with a narrow rear end, the wheelwells could be cut out for tire clearance. for Bville, stock quarters and narrow tires can be used for streamlining. For the drags, a stock front end, or no front end with the front tires outside the body. For LSR a stretched nose with full coverage.
A trailer is easy. I have built a bunch of them. Some of them even enclosed.
Quote from: "Crosley"Joe,I edited your post with my 'quoted paragraphs" in it.. I changed your words to blue so folks would see what your added comments to my words. :D
Yea! but you didn't correct my speeling. Thanks for the clarification , I hoped it would come out that way but I didn't know. I hope you didn't take offence because it certainly wasn't meant that way. GPster
Been busy of late, but like the plan, let's build something.
I like the rail type long wheelbase idea.
I checked with a friend of mine yesterday that has 2 Crosleys, one is an old Shriners car and is pretty bad, but complete and the other is a nice solid car. This is the sedan that has a bit of a trunk on it. He paid a grand for them with 3 motors, and might be interested in selling.
He also mentioned that there is another body, the one that looks like a wagon, in Casper WY for 100 bucks. I will have to talk to another guy I know to find out exactly where it is.
Doug
I haven't got to check on any of my ideas except one. I know where there is some old oil well eguipment. I thought that one piece was an old militay truck with tamdem axels on the rear and might have been an International but it was GMC. The other piece that I thought might provide a power plant was a Brockway. My other lead for thise engines was a guy that sold his Harley Davidson dealership recently. He's probably gone someplace warm for the winter. Because of my hearing and speech I don't do phone calls very well . I prefer to do my checking in person so the other leads are covered with ice and snow. If the ideas become ordinary I might donate a 4 bolt main 350 to the project. GPster
That Crosley sedan sounds interesting.
I had a phone conversation with Sum last night, he is busy with his new boat, air powered. He likes the Crosley sedan, but suggested that a late Geo Metro coupe might be better for the salt. Looking at profile pictures, they are similar, we might be able to use one of them too. the problem with a Metro body, it would not fit nastalgia class at the drags.
We may just have to go one way or the other. In that case I like a drag car, but that's just me.
(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z72/Mazooma1/HAMB%202/1484157052_14c5c98523.jpg)
More here:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324126
Quote from: "unklian"(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z72/Mazooma1/HAMB%202/1484157052_14c5c98523.jpg)
That is just what I have in mind.
Quote from: "unklian"More here:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324126
I looked at all the pictures on that site and I can see and feel the nostalgic look around those Crosleys. There isn't the same feeling around all those foreign bodies ( even the Volvos ). Even the Metropolitan doesn't catch me that way. The tri-five Chevys capture the gasser feeling but the "Altered" look of the Crosley kind of defines it's purpose. I'll work some more on this endtowards that end. GPster
Batto rebuilt the car a few years back... or created a replica , I forget which.
Spindle mount wheels would be expensive.... need brakes on all 4 corners?
Quote from: "Crosley".... need brakes on all 4 corners?
Not sure if drag cars are required to have 4 wheel brakes.
Might fall under common sense though. Cheap insurance.
You don't use the brakes much anyway, that's what the chute is for.
Brakes help with staging, burnouts, etc.
Quote from: "GPster"I haven't got to check on any of my ideas except one. I know where there is some old oil well eguipment. I thought that one piece was an old militay truck with tamdem axels on the rear and might have been an International but it was GMC. GPster
If this was an old GMC gas engine military 2 1/2 ton it probably had a 302 Jimmy in it AND if it was one of the last gas engined 2 1/2s (mid 50s) it may have a GMC manufactured 12 port head on it. It was a military use only head and rather rare. I would be more excited about a 12 port 302 Jimmy that some engine that there is absolutely no speed equipment for.
Tom
I haven't offered much input on this but I think it could be a good idea and will throw out some of my opinions. I figured I'd let the smart guys get the ball rolling and see what comes up.
I like the idea of using a Crosley and those that Doug found sound real interesting.
Personally, I think a basic, low budget build would be best to start with....something simple, safe, and homegrown. A drag car with SBC (or similarly common engine) would probably be the least expensive with lots of options. Remember Samiyam's Roach Rod build? Very low buck but lots of fun. If we set a fairly easy, acheivable goal I think we could have fun and get to know each other better.
If we let it get too complicated in the beginning I think there will be less people wanting to get involved. I know I'd enjoy going to a few laid back builds where we could all use a bit of our talents but keep a pleasant social air to it. Complicated, technical race cars can be frustrating to have a bunch of people with different ideas, without problems. Plus the dollar investment can get carried away pretty quick.
There's a lot of talent here and if we can focus on having a fun build we might even end up with a cool car to play with.
You make sense George.
Quote from: "purplepickup"Very low buck but lots of fun.
That sounds good.
If the car was designed to accept a variety of motors,
big block, small block, inline 6, etc , then people have
the flexibility to run what they want.
Need to find the NHRA cage/chassis regs.
NHRA requirements based on ET:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-tech/880990-what-do-i-need-safety-requirements-nhra-rollbar-rollcage-harness-etc.html
Basically: 12.00 or slower, less than 135 mph, all you "need"
is a helmet and drive shaft hoop, on a closed car.
---
From the sound of this discussion, ECTA (Maxton NC) is not as fussy as SCTA on cages.
http://forums.hotrod.com/70/1358532/top-speed-challenge/rollcage-requirements/index.html
Quote from: "unklian"NHRA requirements based on ET:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-tech/880990-what-do-i-need-safety-requirements-nhra-rollbar-rollcage-harness-etc.html
Basically: 12.00 or slower, less than 135 mph, all you "need"
is a helmet and drive shaft hoop, on a closed car.
---
From the sound of this discussion, ECTA (Maxton NC) is not as fussy as SCTA on cages.
http://forums.hotrod.com/70/1358532/top-speed-challenge/rollcage-requirements/index.html
for the purpose of this discussion i think on the subject of safety we need to err on the side of more rather then less. what with multiple drivers and multiple moter sizes.
later jim
Yes, I agree. That is why I put "need" in quotes.
Quote from: "unklian"Yes, I agree. That is why I put "need" in quotes.
i "need" to read a little closer sometimes :lol: :lol:
later jim
Quote from: "river1"for the purpose of this discussion i think on the subject of safety we need to err on the side of more rather then less. what with multiple drivers and multiple moter sizes. later jim
Also to further that discussion, I don't think Nostalgic cars are running nostalgic times. That Crosley that is the current model is still running in nostalgic racing. They put an expensive motor in it with a blower on it and are running it in the 7s. I was checking Google for drag racing Crosleys and it jumped at me. I have been shown the trick on how-to keep "Pop Rivets" evenly spaced so I suppose I can help you go as fast as you want to go. GPster
Quote from: "GPster"Quote from: "river1"for the purpose of this discussion i think on the subject of safety we need to err on the side of more rather then less. what with multiple drivers and multiple moter sizes. later jim
Also to further that discussion, I don't think Nostalgic cars are running nostalgic times. That Crosley that is the current model is still running in nostalgic racing. They put an expensive motor in it with a blower on it and are running it in the 7s. I was checking Google for drag racing Crosleys and it jumped at me. I have been shown the trick on how-to keep "Pop Rivets" evenly spaced so I suppose I can help you go as fast as you want to go. GPster
Joe... how does evenly spaced pop rivets make a car go fast?
8)
It's an inside/outside thing between me and George on the BBQ trailer. Because I only worked on one side I'd guess anything I worked on would only be half-fast. GPster
Quote from: "Crosley"
Spindle mount wheels would be expensive.... need brakes on all 4 corners?
Ford made some nice forged Aluminum "Space Saver" wheels.
Late model Mustangs etc.With some proper narrow tires, they
would work fine on front for dragging.
Shouldn't be too difficult/expensive to get.
Quote from: "GPster"It's an inside/outside thing between me and George on the BBQ trailer. Because I only worked on one side I'd guess anything I worked on would only be half-fast. GPster
The side Joe did was perfect. I let the template slip on my side and it's very obvious. Of course there's always someone around to remind me about it or show off the screwup while I'm around. :oops:
....so if I'm working on something on the Crosley, keep an eye on me. :wink:
There will probably be quite a few inside jokes among the members that work together on the car project. That's the social side of doing something like this that will live a long time. :D
I checked with the 2 guys that knew about the Crosley wagon in Casper, and they both said they could drive me there, but not give directions. It is on the way to the old Auto Auction is what the said. Does anyone have any connections to Casper WY that might be able to drive around and find it? I can connect them to the guys I know and between them it might be found. That is if a Wagon is what we are looking for. I was also told yesterday, that one of the guys in the Antique Car club list's having 4 of them, so I will check that out also. Curt, has not made up his mind on the 2 that he has that I mentioned last week.
Doug
I really would rather have a sedan than a wagon. I found one near here in mi. but he is firm on $1500. but there are a bunch of spare parts with it.
Have to allow transportation costs on something far away.
A "free" car in Australia, might not be a good deal by the time it arrived.
Don't get me wrong, a wagon at the right price would do too. I'm still trying to track down the one in Wauseon.
Here's a wagon in Snottsdale, AZ. Don't know if it's worth $1500 tho.
http://www.collectorcarads.com/Crosley-Wagon/26441
(http://www.collectorcarads.com/Picture1/TempeYard20100.jpg)
While I was poking around I saw this way to make the body fit a longer wheelbase too.
(http://www.carsforsale.com/Post/VehicleImages/64537721-25A7-4EBB-8EF0-AB75C3AE596C12.jpg)
I think that red bucket of bolts was on eBay last year. interesting idea with the front sheet metal.
Don't tell the Crosley owner what the intent of the body use is... some are OEM strong with opinions.
One fellow here had one of my former Crosley car bodies for sale on craigs list ... it was a wagon too.
Can anyone find a straight on side view
of a Crosley sedan and a Crosley wagon ?
They have the same wheelbase, the only
difference will be the profile on the back.
a few photos of Crosley cars
'48 Wagon
(http://www.hubcapcafe.com/i_rdr/2003/cros4801a.jpg)
Coupe with stock roof.
(http://www.ecta-lsr.com/events/2003/jun03/n060307.jpg)
Chopped top and altered wheelbase.
(http://www.alteredstatesmodels.com/images/blue%20goose2.jpg)
(http://www.alteredstatesmodels.com/images/blue%20goose1.jpg)
(http://www.alteredstatesmodels.com/images/BlueGoose.JPG)
Looks like a 40 Ford hood.
(http://www.rustout.freeserve.co.uk/scott10.jpg)
This one sits nice, the body is lower than the Blue one.
.
(http://gassermadness.com/chrr2k1/Batto1.jpg)
(http://gassermadness.com/chrr2k1/batto2.jpg)
Notice the roof hatch.
(http://gassermadness.com/chrr2k1/batto3.jpg)
(http://gassermadness.com/chrr2k1/batto4.jpg)
Body appears to be 'glas.
(http://gassermadness.com/chrr2k3/bs/sun/batto1.jpg)
(http://gassermadness.com/chrr2k3/bs/sun/batto3.jpg)
(http://gassermadness.com/chrr2k3/bs/sun/batto2.jpg)
(http://gassermadness.com/chrr2k3/bs/sun/batto4.jpg)
(http://gassermadness.com/chrr2k5/hanaseth/altereds/063_16.JPG)
Nice looking car,sold.
http://gassermadness.com/forsale/sold/smith-cros/index.htm
http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/1016789971.html
Don't think I've even seen an altered wheelbase Mini.
The Blue Goose lives just north of me....
couple more photos for idears.... seems to be a common design theme on most of them
(http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Crosley/1951CrosleyPanelTruck-LittleGiant509.jpg)
(http://image.automotive.com/f/eventcoverage/9464827/0804st_11_z+scr8p_fest_x_2007+crosley.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/bentbondo/KUSTOMSII/P1010321_JPG.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/bentbondo/KUSTOMSII/P1010273_JPG.jpg)
(http://blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/Crosrod_1794_resized.jpg)
My apologies is some of these are reposts.
(http://blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/baderferrara_01_resized.jpg)
(http://blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/baderferrara_02_resized.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_HVhWEd7g-h4/SFBiOlUclsI/AAAAAAAAAP0/h2h60XXMvzw/s400/Crosley-Merc.jpg)
(http://blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/crosrod_136_resized.jpg)
(http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif)
Flying Eyeballs might get a kick out of this one.
(http://carnut.com/show/01/paso/paso41.jpg)
I'm in. I'll do whatever I'm able and I'll even throw Court and Eli in on the deal. They do a good job cleaning and have good ideas during builds once in a while. Court is working with Frank this week so he might pick up a bad habit or two.
I just jumped back in this thread and saw that a Crosley looks to be the body of choice. Did a crazedlist search around the country and found these listed on various Craigslists. There were a few more but they were $2000 -$2500 and I figured that was way too much. Most of these aren't cheap but unneeded parts could be sold off to get back some, maybe most, of the investment. You guys have likely seen all of these already but just in case wanted to post them. BTW never knew there were so many products that carried the Crosley name.
Lee
#1
1948 Crosley station wagon - $1500 (Circle Pines, MN.) Reply to: sale-984246695@craigslist.org [?]
Date: 2009-01-07, 5:38PM CST
#2
1951 Crosley restoration project - $1500 (Erie, Mi)
Reply to: see below
Date: 2009-01-13, 10:23PM EST
1951 Crosley restoration project - $1500 (Erie, Mi)
2 door hard top, Super Sedan, 4 cyl, 3 speed stick shift, stripped to frame, frame restored, ran good when disassembled, 3 extra engines, 1 extra trans,service and repair manual goes with it, all parts availability, 55 mls to the gallon at 55 mph, time and finance force sale. Serious restoration project. $1500 or best offer
Contact: Eugene Bell cell: 989-906-3933 home: 734-848-8206
#3
1950 crosley hot shot - $1300 (brooks ky)
Reply to: sale-1010220949@craigslist.org [?]
Date: 2009-01-27, 5:11PM EST
1950 crosley hot shot 4cly 3 speed needs restored complete 502 693 22
Reply to: sale-1016522221@craigslist.org [?]
Date: 2009-02-01, 11:15AM PST
#4
1950 Crosley Wagon - $500 (NOR CAL Mendocino Co.)
I have a 1950 crosley wagon for sale. This is an American micro car. Cute like an Isetta or Messerschmitt. It is a rolling project. Body is in great shape; only a few dings. The floors have some rust through in the depressions behind the front seats. There is a complete cast iron motor and parts of several others. I also have an other chassi that has been cut in half but has good parts. I will consider trades for a vintage scooter.
I will post pictures later today.
I am located in Willits California 95490.
#2 is only 20 miles from me. I will contact him.
Is there much of a market for the unnecessary parts ?
I checked with my buddy and he would sell all his Crosly stuff for the $1000 he paid for it. I can take some pictures if nothing out there works out and see if you are interested. I know there are 2 cars and 3 motors here. I think all Crosly guys seem to have 3 motors, must be a fetish.
Doug
I have an appointment to look at the one in Erie Sunday. We'll see what's there.
Well, I went up and looked at it. not a bad piece overall. The floor is bad, real bad, but we don't need that any way. There is a bit of rust in the bottom of the doors, nothing serious. Minor rust on all 4 fenders, easy to patch. He "repaired" the frame, good welds, not a good job, but another part we don't need. there are 4 engines, three transmissions, and two front axles and rear ends. Three engines are complete, one disassembled. Pplus lots of boxes of extra parts. The body is completely apart, he drilled out all the spot welds to seperate all the panels. To be honest, without something like this, it will likely never see the light of day again. He gave me a lower price than the advertised one. I think it can be had for less. we should be able to sell of most of the parts to recover the purchase price.
Coupe ?
Quote from: "unklian"Coupe ?
Super Sedan
Quote from: "unklian"Coupe ?
Yes, super Sedan.
Not a Wagon. Ok, cool.
---
Somehow the words Super and Crosley just don't seem to fit together. :lol:
I just ran across this also
http://desmoines.craigslist.org/cto/1024987688.html
Enjenjo...... i tend to agree with your assessment of the car. With out this group project that Crosley car most likely would never be used again... just the parts and pieces.
The deal with Crosley autos is the sheet metal is getting scarce. Plenty of mechanical stuff around since the power train parts were produced into the 60's in various forms.
Any chance he'd sell just the sheet metal? He could E bay the rest, or is there any market for the mechanicals? We could sell that stuff to recoup some of the cost.
Quote from: "phat46"Any chance he'd sell just the sheet metal? He could E bay the rest, or is there any market for the mechanicals? We could sell that stuff to recoup some of the cost.
He will only sell it all, he doesn't want to part it out. The National Crosley meet is 10 miles from me every year, so getting rid of it should not be a problem.
What year is the body ?
Quote from: "unklian"What year is the body ?
He says 51. Tony says 49 or 50. I believe Tony.
Are the doors and rear quarter panels the same as the earlier cars ?
In which case it could be a '48 for Bonneville, in Competition Coupe,
since you are allowed to change/modify the front sheet metal.
Quote from: "unklian"Are the doors and rear quarter panels the same as the earlier cars ?
In which case it could be a '48 for Bonneville, in Competition Coupe,
since you are allowed to change/modify the front sheet metal.
The body is the same. At least it is for our purposes. There are some detail changes.
Cool stuff. Looking forward to it.
Are there any artists on the RRT that could do some sketchs? Just my opinion but I would like to see the front wheels inside the sheet metal. Extend the front , move the motor and seat back. I have a pair of drop spindles for a Mustang II if needed. Would like to help some also.
I could come up with a set of spindles for a 53-54 Chevy if needed. There's some straight axle stuff for those spindles.
Quote from: "Mikej"Are there any artists on the RRT that could do some sketchs? Just my opinion but I would like to see the front wheels inside the sheet metal. Extend the front , move the motor and seat back. I have a pair of drop spindles for a Mustang II if needed. Would like to help some also.
Might have trouble moving the seat back, if the rear tires are in the way.
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-1/79-1-03.jpg)
Not sure if it is a Crosley or a Fiat.Maybe an old Honda.
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-1/204-2-06.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-1/204-1-06.jpg)
Quote from: "Mikej"Are there any artists on the RRT that could do some sketchs? Just my opinion but I would like to see the front wheels inside the sheet metal. Extend the front , move the motor and seat back.
Working on a quick rendering right now.
Quote from: "enjenjo"Quote from: "unklian"What year is the body ?
He says 51. Tony says 49 or 50. I believe Tony.
the hood is a 49 -50 , maybe it was changed along with the grill.
51 & 52 Crosley cars had a hood with a half moon shape at the meeting of the grill and hood. The grill had a round center with the propeller on it. If you stand back and look at the 51-52 grill , it looks like a bi-plane with the propeller there.
the photo attached here shows a 1951 - 52 Crosley grill that is hung on my garage wall... I guess it does not really matter too much
8)
Quote from: "unklian"Working on a quick rendering right now.
While you're rendering, do one with the back edge of the front fenders slid foreward (lengthening wheelbase) to match the front edge of the cowl. Looks like about 10". Then imagine the front fenders swaped side-for-side to create convex space like on the front of a fender-less Fiat or VW. That would allow a wider front axel and wheels to turn without having to run everything in front of the front clip. Just a little difference in the look so it won't copy so many others. GPster
Of course, everything takes longer than expected.
:roll:
Based loosely on a pic posted earlier:
Chopped top, stretched wheelbase, altered nose.
I took a wedge out of the front of the hood,
and pulled the front bumper and bottom of the grill forward.
I loke the looks of that one.
A little longer, pushed the hood down some more.
More overhang on front. Better aero.
Scale works out to be around 112" WB, if these are 15" wheels.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d167/Unkzilla/RRTSuperCoupe3.jpg)
Did a couple quick sketches of what i think a Crosley racer might look like. One is a drag car, the other a bonniville car. The drag car is slightly chopped and the front sheetmetal is lengthened about a foot. The Bonneville car is chopped more, lengthened, and the rear wheel "skirt" can be removed at the body line to access the wheels. I don't see how one car can work for both types of racing, but maybe it wouldn't have to be so extreme each way. I also have some parts i would donate if needed.
Quote from: "unklian"Of course, everything takes longer than expected.
:roll:
Based loosely on a pic posted earlier:
Chopped top, stretched wheelbase, altered nose.
I like this one also. Front sheet metal made to tilt or lift off? Nice job on the rendering.
Quote from: "Mikej"
Front sheet metal made to tilt or lift off? Nice job on the rendering.
My personal preference, I don't like tilt front ends.
Don't see them on modern race cars. With low ground
clearance, a long overhang on front, even less practical.
I was imagining a hinged hood, like the NASCAR guys use.
The pivots would attach to the fenders, which would be tied
together, with a simple framework,with the nose as a sub assembly.
The whole nose , with the hood, could be removed as a unit
by undoing a few bolts or Dzeus clips.Opening the hood would
be a one person deal, with a couple pins.
Quote from: "phat46"
The Bonneville car is chopped more, lengthened, and the rear wheel "skirt" can be removed at the body line to access the wheels.
I don't see how one car can work for both types of racing,
but maybe it wouldn't have to be so extreme each way.
I also have some parts i would donate if needed.
Very nice sketches.
Skirts would be legal on front, not legal on back for Bonneville.
The wheelbase on this one is around 120"
(http://gassermadness.com/chrr2k1/Batto1.jpg)
I left the wheelbase, and stretched the sheetmetal forward and down.
No budget for a blower, so I added a hood blister.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d167/Unkzilla/Batto1.jpg)
I must admit, I had not read any of this til this evening, interesting. i have lots of drag race stuff . I build nhra legal chassis too. I;m takin it all in and thinking this might be fun. the easy thing is a sbc and a powerglide transmission. which is the same length as the short tail 350 turbo. the big block is only a couple inches longer out front and a of course wider. I think it would be fun to try our hand at an oddball combo instead. pontiac, olds, caddy, not old ones but like a 455 etc, just a thought. of course a 9 inch and new axles and a good center section is a must. keep it up ill read from now on and see where this takes us. thanks sam
A green "electric car" would likely entertain some heavyweight sponsors, then the car would be virtually free for all, less labor, and could just be passed around the country to play with.... :D Plus it is something to be talked about!!
Quote from: "dragrcr50"I must admit, I had not read any of this til this evening, interesting. i have lots of drag race stuff . I build nhra legal chassis too. I;m takin it all in and thinking this might be fun. the easy thing is a sbc and a powerglide transmission. which is the same length as the short tail 350 turbo. the big block is only a couple inches longer out front and a of course wider. I think it would be fun to try our hand at an oddball combo instead. pontiac, olds, caddy, not old ones but like a 455 etc, just a thought. of course a 9 inch and new axles and a good center section is a must. keep it up ill read from now on and see where this takes us. thanks sam
in my process for looking for 290 amc's, i seem to get a few people offering up 343's if you want off the wall stuff...
don't know how much help i can be to the project as i think i'm the only one in northern colorado...
Quote from: "tomslik"don't know how much help i can be to the project as i think i'm the only one in northern colorado...
Dont give up so easily. There will be build days located all across the country. Initial discussions between Enjenjo and I have talked about doing some build days in the midwest and we want to do at least one timeframe out at Sumner's. I am sure there would be one close enough to you that you could make it. :wink:
Quote from: "Fat Cat"Quote from: "tomslik"don't know how much help i can be to the project as i think i'm the only one in northern colorado...
Dont give up so easily. There will be build days located all across the country. Initial discussions between Enjenjo and I have talked about doing some build days in the midwest and we want to do at least one timeframe out at Sumner's. I am sure there would be one close enough to you that you could make it. :wink:
I'll be in Denver in June from the second till the tenth. If the racer is out there then it would be a good excuse for me to miss Glenwood Springs. Of course if it happens to be in Blanding I could probably borrow a car. GPster
Quotedon't know how much help i can be to the project as i think i'm the only one in northern colorado...
I have you penciled in for building the rear end housing. :lol:
I want to spread this build out as much as possible.
Leonard, If you want to do electric, get together with the others that want to go that route, and you can have the car to try it. Should be no problem fitting an electric powerplant into it.
We are going to need someone to build a glass front end.
I do like the 120" wheelbase with the stretched nose.
To make this work, on the budget we have, we will have to take advantage of all the talent the members of the group have.
to whomever is designing the chassis here is an idea i got from elpolacko from the HAMB. when he builds a chassis he builds the k-member in such a way as to facilitate multiple tranny lengths. the tubing the mount bolts to are exactly parallel so the mount can slide nack and forth to allow for the different tranny lengths.
here is a pic that i stole from his photobucket site
(http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb93/ELpolacko/1947%20International%20Harvester/Picture136.jpg)
later jim
Good Idea Jim.
We have to start figuring out the layout of the car.
I have a heavy duty 9" housing we can use for the rear end. we need a good center section, and a spool. We will have to get good axles made, what wheel bolt pattern? 4 link? ladder bars? Coilovers? Disc or drum brakes?
For the front axle, I have been thinking of using the stock spindles with a fabricated tube axle. But if we use front brakes, and that is not a bad idea, we may need something stouter. Cross spring front end? struts?
Round tube frame? Or rectangular?
How much tire?
I have been thinking of a Powerglide, because it is light and very adaptable.
Lets have some more input on this.
I have one of those Chevy front motor mount crossmembers from Speedway from the Jeepster. It has been trimed on at the sides for a much narrower frame width but some type of frame sliders can be built on the ends for a similar sliding arrangement for engine mounts ( the 90 degree V6 has mounts closer to the back of the block than V8). I also have a short tailhousing 350 turbo if a powerglide doesn't show up and a fresh .030" over early 4.3 V6 if it needs to run quickly (not fast). Didn't you say that the Crosley part included a couple extra front axels? we could weld two longer halves to make on wider than stock one. How about a simple rear suspension? Chevy truck rear arms ('64 to '72 ?) coil rear springs or air bags? Surely someone out west could find a pair that aren't rusted past use. GPster
If it was decided to go the truck arms as GPster suggested I might be able to find some if a member didn't have some. I'll be going out west on a parts hunting trip again the end of Apr. first part of May
I like than transmission mount, Steve does very nice work.
Ideally, the transmission tunnel would be large enough to
accept different options.
Truck arms are nice and simple,
but for drag racing, I think an adjustable 4 link would work better.
Or a 3 link using a torque arm.
On tire sizes, the Bonneville rubber has to fit inside the stock quarter panels.
So the tubs need to be at least that big.
Drag rubber could hang out in the breeze.
10 1/2" is a popular size.
If the rear quarter panels are removable with Dzeus buttons,
it would make things easier. Could have two sets of
quarter panels, one for Bonneville, the other for drag racing.
QuoteIf the rear quarter panels are removable with Dzeus buttons,
it would make things easier. Could have two sets of
quarter panels, one for Bonneville, the other for drag racing.
My thought too. You can't use skirts, but you can run the tiny stock wheel openings.
(http://www.thundermountainraceway.com/2007_files/photos_05/tmr_nostalgia/kerry%20bebee%20photos/kerry19.jpg)
(http://www.thundermountainraceway.com/2007_files/photos_05/tmr_nostalgia/kerry%20bebee%20photos/kerry010.jpg)
(http://www.thundermountainraceway.com/2007_files/photos_05/tmr_nostalgia/kerry%20bebee%20photos/kerry09.jpg)
Just to put that in scale. A Crosley had a wheelbase of 80". The thought is that a wheelbase of 120" would suit our purpose and that extra wheelbase would be in front of the cowl. That would mean a 40" stretch which would probably be more than the width of the doors, The nose would go clear to the front for a different look and for some streamlining but it would be re-shaped some. My only form of graphics is CCP (copy, cut, paste) and I tried to come up with a rendering like this the other day but then couldn't post it. Imagine that or put it in picture. GPster
Quote from: "enjenjo"Good Idea Jim.
We have to start figuring out the layout of the car.
I have a heavy duty 9" housing we can use for the rear end. we need a good center section, and a spool. We will have to get good axles made, what wheel bolt pattern? 4 link? ladder bars? Coilovers? Disc or drum brakes?
For the front axle, I have been thinking of using the stock spindles with a fabricated tube axle. But if we use front brakes, and that is not a bad idea, we may need something stouter. Cross spring front end? struts?
Round tube frame? Or rectangular?
How much tire?
I have been thinking of a Powerglide, because it is light and very adaptable.
Lets have some more input on this.
I have an aluminum case Power Glide I would donate if needed. I also have two 15 X 10" 5 0n 5.5 aluminum wheels I would donate if they would work.
Quote from: "GPster"Just to put that in scale. A Crosley had a wheelbase of 80". The thought is that a wheelbase of 120" would suit our purpose and that extra wheelbase would be in front of the cowl. That would mean a 40" stretch which would probably be more than the width of the doors, The nose would go clear to the front for a different look and for some streamlining but it would be re-shaped some. My only form of graphics is CCP (copy, cut, paste) and I tried to come up with a rendering like this the other day but then couldn't post it. Imagine that or put it in picture. GPster
Going by the profile picture of a stock seadn that I've been playing with the doors are half the length of the wheelbase (40"). so if someone can make a picture that size it would show what we're thinking. If you're working with a picture of a stocker it's should be on 12" wheels which should give you a scale for wheel/tires.That might help picture the first thoughts. GPster
Went back and figured the wheelbase of my renderings,
based on the stock wheelbase.
This one is around 124".
(http://www.roddingroundtable.com/forums/files/thumbs/t_rrt_super_coupe_2_715.jpg)
This is around 100"
(http://www.roddingroundtable.com/forums/files/thumbs/t_rrt_super_coupe_590.jpg)
My earlier estimates were based on
assumed wheel sizes, which were not accurate.
What is the wheelbase on Hooley's Studebaker ?
Quote from: "unklian"What is the wheelbase on Hooley's Studebaker ?
they are 121 inch....................
Wednesday at 9 pm we are going to have a chat to get this rolling. I would like as many of you there as possible, to get your input on this.
Quote from: "dragrcr50"Quote from: "unklian"What is the wheelbase on Hooley's Studebaker ?
they are 121 inch....................
Wow, that is a big car.
I'll have to check the other shop, but I think I have a set of rear coilovers that were originally for a car that I put air springs in instead. I'll try to get over there tomorrow to check.
I've got some 4 bar brackets, that attach to the rear end.
Might have some new P&J 1 3/4" shackles, for a transverse spring on front.
We discussed a Pro Mod inspired nose.
Perhaps something like this.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d167/Unkzilla/crosley-bville03.jpg)
I modified a pic posted earlier.
Key elements are the round headlights, and peak in the middle of the hood.
Trying to maintain some of the original identity.
Rule updates for 2009
http://www.scta-bni.org/SCTA-NewWeb/Rulebook/App%20Changes%2009.pdf
(http://crosleyautoclub.com/SpotLite/Oxymoron-Racer-sm.jpg)
Not sure what year this one is.
Pic from Steve Davis' shop:
(http://images34.fotki.com/v1075/photos/9/9586/5760707/010108LarryWoodsGarageTour355-vi.jpg)
(http://images7.fotki.com/v130/photos/9/9586/5760707/010108LarryWoodsGarageTour363-vi.jpg)
(http://images31.fotki.com/v1096/photos/9/9586/5760707/010108LarryWoodsGarageTour367-vi.jpg)
(http://images33.fotki.com/v1069/photos/9/9586/5760707/010108LarryWoodsGarageTour352-vi.jpg)
(http://images33.fotki.com/v1069/photos/9/9586/5760707/010108LarryWoodsGarageTour358-vi.jpg)
(http://images33.fotki.com/v1072/photos/9/9586/5760707/010108LarryWoodsGarageTour372-vi.jpg)
(http://images18.fotki.com/v329/photos/9/9586/5760707/010108LarryWoodsGarageTour356-vi.jpg)
(http://images31.fotki.com/v1095/photos/9/9586/5760707/010108LarryWoodsGarageTour353-vi.jpg)
(http://images40.fotki.com/v1336/photos/9/9586/5760707/010108LarryWoodsGarageTour368-vi.jpg)
(http://images42.fotki.com/v1377/photos/9/9586/5760707/010108LarryWoodsGarageTour369-vi.jpg)
I like that a lot. kind of what I have in mind, but not that long.
Quote from: "enjenjo"I like that a lot. kind of what I have in mind, but not that long.
that's what she said :D
Quote from: "enjenjo"I like that a lot. kind of what I have in mind, but not that long.
I suspect the wheelbase reflects the
anticipated speeds, and matching budget. :D
Those pics are over a year old.
It would be cool to see any progress.
The tread width measurements we were talking about are measured from the center of one tire, to the center of the other tire. The ones you mentioned apply only to the Vintage class, and only running fenderless.
When the rules are explained, some of them make sense.
But they are not written that way. :roll:
Boy it would seem that this project is going to die before it had a chance to take off.
Quote from: "Fat Cat"Boy it would seem that this project is going to die before it had a chance to take off.
i haven't quite figured out WHAT the plan is :shock:
a bonneville car and a drag car are too far apart to do either well :?
even at that, i'm getting deeper and deeper(money-wise)in this stocker project of my own.
rambler stuff ain't cheap (if you can find it)...
What the plan is, is a well done drag car. One that would be possible to put on the salt. It would need to be rebuilt to do that though.
This will be a car that can be run by a small group, supplying their own power, in our chassis.
As it stands right now, we don't have enough participation to make a go of this. I am waiting until the end of the month, and if it stays as it is, I will return the funds, and donated parts, and come up with another idea for a RRT project.
I get the feeling that some are feeling excluded from this, and if you are, I am sorry for that. It was never the intension to exclude any one.
Quote from: "enjenjo"What the plan is, is a well done drag car. One that would be possible to put on the salt. It would need to be rebuilt to do that though.
This will be a car that can be run by a small group, supplying their own power, in our chassis.
As it stands right now, we don't have enough participation to make a go of this. I am waiting until the end of the month, and if it stays as it is, I will return the funds, and donated parts, and come up with another idea for a RRT project.
I get the feeling that some are feeling excluded from this, and if you are, I am sorry for that. It was never the intension to exclude any one.
hold on big feller!
i don't feel excluded, it just doesn't seem too practical to ship that sucker to me and wait until I get around to working on it.
just a logistics thing, i seem to be the only one in colorado besides midnight son and i THINK he's over on the western slope, like grand junction (closer to sumner)
i don't think anybody wants you holding the bag on what you've spent on the crosley (not the bald one from AZ)
i'm just not sure what i can contribute BUT i'm sure there'll be something...
Quote from: "tomslik"Quote from: "enjenjo"What the plan is, is a well done drag car. One that would be possible to put on the salt. It would need to be rebuilt to do that though.
This will be a car that can be run by a small group, supplying their own power, in our chassis.
As it stands right now, we don't have enough participation to make a go of this. I am waiting until the end of the month, and if it stays as it is, I will return the funds, and donated parts, and come up with another idea for a RRT project.
I get the feeling that some are feeling excluded from this, and if you are, I am sorry for that. It was never the intension to exclude any one.
hold on big feller!
i don't feel excluded, it just doesn't seem too practical to ship that sucker to me and wait until I get around to working on it.
just a logistics thing, i seem to be the only one in colorado besides midnight son and i THINK he's over on the western slope, like grand junction (closer to sumner)
i don't think anybody wants you holding the bag on what you've spent on the crosley (not the bald one from AZ)
i'm just not sure what i can contribute BUT i'm sure there'll be something...
Didn't mean you. I am not upset with any one. I realise what the money situation is for most of us now days. don't worry about me getting stuck with this, I can get my money out of it.
I figured the project would be 2 years long at least.
The way I seee this project happening is the east coast guys ( Ohio , Michigan) will be into the car for the large part of labor.... it seems that way since Frank and Frank are starters of the project , found a body , etc.
Moving the car around the USA for construction could prove difficult and costly.
Money is tight and the economy will not recover much in 2009 ( my opinion).. my work place is doing OK right now , not sure if that will hold.
At 50 bucks a share it will take many shares to buy the needed materials and parts to construct the car.
You are in the same time frame I am Tony. After going to Cobo today, and talking to some racer buddies, I am recharged some today. We will see where this goes.
What happened to all the people that wanted to join in?
Quote from: "Leon"What happened to all the people that wanted to join in?
A few have PMed me, some I just don't know. Some are waiting for a tax return. Two have lost their job in the last month.
It's a tough economy. My money the gubmint took from my paycheck last year , I received that back 2 weeks ago. it's spent.
I joined into the RRT project via the sales of items in my shop.. I've recently sold parts I've had 10 -15 years or longer.
Next is getting rid of more cars. :shock: I think (grin) I will keep the Falcon, 1 Morris Minor and the 1948 Simca
Quote from: "Crosley"It's a tough economy. My money the gubmint took from my paycheck last year , I received that back 2 weeks ago. it's spent.
I joined into the RRT project via the sales of items in my shop.. I've recently sold parts I've had 10 -15 years or longer.
Next is getting rid of more cars. :shock: I think (grin) I will keep the Falcon, 1 Morris Minor and the 1948 Simca
what do ya got left?
geez, i been selling rambler stuff like crazy along with other crap i'll never use
not so much hard time but my paycheck goes to the house.
i see maybe gas money but that's it, i want this dump paid off!
the ebay stuff or anything i make out in the shop is my play money :lol:
Quote from: "tomslik"Quote from: "Crosley"It's a tough economy. My money the gubmint took from my paycheck last year , I received that back 2 weeks ago. it's spent.
I joined into the RRT project via the sales of items in my shop.. I've recently sold parts I've had 10 -15 years or longer.
Next is getting rid of more cars. :shock: I think (grin) I will keep the Falcon, 1 Morris Minor and the 1948 Simca
what do ya got left?
hi tomslik;
currently my fleet is;
2 - Crosley cars. 1947 sedan and 1948 wagon... a Crosley pick up; body only
1- 1948 Simca
1-Dodge Lancer 1961.. runs , drives
1- Falcon sedan 1962 ... runs , drives
2 - Morris Minor 1000 cars , 1- 1961 runner driver, the other, a 1962 sits on my frame fixture
1- Triumph 1959 Standard 10 car
1- Bug eye Sprite 1961
I may part the Dodge out, keep the usable parts : power train, differential... not much interest (zero) in the whole car when I have it for sale.
8)
The thing that comes to mind first about an RRT project like the BBQ trailer is more how we came together to accomplish something and how we all get together and enjoy it. I put in some time on the construction of it but the best part of it's being a reason to sit around and enjoy it with everybody. That feeling has been in Swanton, Indianapolis. Kalamazoo. Fort Wayne and Bonneville for me. We all have different financial worries and the initial talk about a $10,000.00 undertaking with 20 share holders at $500.00 a clip scared me right off the picnic grounds. The second share offering brought me back into the fold and my wife even encourraged me to go deeper into it more than an "also ran". There was talk about a Hot Rod feature car being a model. Investigating that article showed a four cylinder engine pushing a car 117 MPH. That certainly wasn't a low dollar project but that speed put realities more in our reach for tires, safety equipment and driver licensing. Talking about a Nostalgic Drag Car brings about some feelings of something that could be accomplished. The idea of running a car in ET brackets gives some ease and notions. The HAMB drags come to mind and there seems to be a lot more than "grudge" matches between wheel standing Henry J s and Willys there. That certainly is not bad if you're a competitor but that might be a little rich blooded for people just looking for an excuse to be doing something together. Looking at suggestions I'd like to offer this one. We need to build a rolling chassis and because it would be a strengthening part of the design it should have a roll cage. To keep from having to re-do anything I would suggest a cage built to SCTA specs because there would be no shame having a four cylinder 13 second drag car with a first class roll cage. Build a straight ladder style frame and go for 120". With a straight front axel and traverse front spring it could be shortened if necessary with-out any major re-design. We should at least put the body back together and get it out of that never to see daylight again state. One last thought. Four bar rear suspension might be optimum but for use yoou might be limited to whatever you could do with one rear end housing with the correct brakets. Maybe just a pair of leaf springs on the rear might keep you from having to run a 9" with 35 spline axels behind some four cylinder engine. Maybe if we can't get the other share holders to offer their opinions we should ask them. I've said enough. GPster
I understand where you are coming from Joe, but there are some realities we have to deal with. there are requirements that have to be met to race most anywhere now days. Take the rear end for instance. 28 spline, 31 spline, 35 spline axles are all the same price. For what we want to do, NHRA requires aftermarket axles to be legal. So we might as well build it bulletproof, rather than have to spend the money again later. Leaf springs are simple, but not very tuneable, and we will still need some type of traction control device. We can build our own four link, and brackets for a very reasonable price, and we already have a set of rear coilovers for it.
The frame we have come up with is a ladder type frame made from 2 by 3 tubing, with a full cage, NHRA legal, including bars to the front of the frame. We are planning on using 1 3/4" tubing, bigger than required, but needed if we step up later. This is more than what is required, but will be useable most any where without changes.
We have a straight front axle, I have access to torsion bars for sprint cars at a real good price, which again will help the tuning of the chassis.
With a stiff chassis, and a tuneable suspension, we are not going to be building a ill handling turd that can't be fixed.
There is no deadline for building this. As long as we are progressing, it will be fine.
I haven't anything to add till now. Anything that we do neededs to be safe and well thought out. That way no one will be hurt because of the design or not following safety guide lines. Moving it around the country may be a bit of a problem for the initial build.
I would like to see even a engine built by the group to be used at the salt. As a group activity it doesn't have to be the fastest but it could be alot of fun for all to take part.
I haven't been on the chats because I don't type fast enough( or is that think) could be both. But would like to thank Frank for posting the discussions.
As a clarification to everybody else, I started that reply last night at 5:00 and just finished it last night before I got on Chat. On Chat I found out the promised coil overs had been delivered, the promised four bar brackets had also appeared and that we already had access to a 9" rear end housing (truck housing with the big axel bearings). This would mean that we have 3/4 of what it would take to make a rolling chassis on the back end which was my main concern. This is the first commitment to 1 3/4" roll cage (which I mentioned as SCTA legal) so that we wouldn't be going with smaller bars and only be NHRA legal. It all sounds good so far.aren't there any other opinions? GPster
I think everybody is on the same page; as far as building a
generic drag race car that COULD be up graded to run Bonneville.
Safety is non negotiable, the sanctioning body rules are a minimum.
If a few "extra" pounds slows the 1/4 mile ET a bit, it isn't a crisis for bracket racing.
Unfortunately, the Economy is squeezing all of us.
Some more than others. :cry:
HOPEFULLY, as the project develops, it will gather more support.
How about a bailout from Obama :lol: :lol: :lol:
It's supposed to be clear and warm tomorrow, so I'll try to get the body set up, and get some pictures of it.
Quote from: "enjenjo"It's supposed to be clear and warm tomorrow, so I'll try to get the body set up, and get some pictures of it.
That'd be great!!
Quote from: "enjenjo"It's supposed to be clear and warm tomorrow, so I'll try to get the body set up, and get some pictures of it.
iI need a little more notice to be able to show up and help, GPster
Are we set with the Sprint Car front axel? One other site I visit has a '34 front axel with un-cut wishbone and spindles for sale. At $125.00 I think it's reasonable but it's in Alabama. Has tie rod and I think it's drag link steered but no hubs or brakes. Decide if you want me to go further. GPster
Quote from: "GPster"Are we set with the Sprint Car front axel? One other site I visit has a '34 front axel with un-cut wishbone and spindles for sale. At $125.00 I think it's reasonable but it's in Alabama. Has tie rod and I think it's drag link steered but no hubs or brakes. Decide if you want me to go further. GPster
We have the axle and spindles, it's light and strong, so I see no reason not to use it. Besides, the 34 axle is too long for the width we are shooting for.
We set the body parts up so it kind of looks like a car. Some of the panels need some work, but it's pretty solid for what we need.
Should we get it back together and on a frame before we chop the top? Or could we "X" brace the body like you did that Mustang? GPster
Quote from: "GPster"Should we get it back together and on a frame before we chop the top? Or could we "X" brace the body like you did that Mustang? GPster
We are going to have to build some type of bracing to assemble the body on to fit it back together.
Well that body should be pretty easy to chop seeing as how someone already cut the top off!!! Or it might make it a pain in the butt!!! :lol:
Well, do we want to schedule a build day to start getting the body into shape? I have a table, on wheels, we can build the body on.
Quote from: "enjenjo"Well, do we want to schedule a build day to start getting the body into shape? I have a table, on wheels, we can build the body on.
Sure :D
as a builder i only have one idea for this deal. if it is going to have multiple drivers it needs to fit them all to be safe. i think moveable seat mounting is a must and maybe a couple of different steering column spacers made for tall or short guys or round like me. also the cage must fit at lest a 6.2 guy as a general rule. ...........
Quote from: "dragrcr50"as a builder i only have one idea for this deal. if it is going to have multiple drivers it needs to fit them all to be safe. i think moveable seat mounting is a must and maybe a couple of different steering column spacers made for tall or short guys or round like me. also the cage must fit at lest a 6.2 guy as a general rule. ...........
hmmmmm , a 6'2" Sumner or FatCat? BIG difference there.
8)
Quote from: "dragrcr50"as a builder i only have one idea for this deal. if it is going to have multiple drivers it needs to fit them all to be safe. i think moveable seat mounting is a must and maybe a couple of different steering column spacers made for tall or short guys or round like me. also the cage must fit at lest a 6.2 guy as a general rule. ...........
I agree. I'm thinking a means of adjusting the seat height, one to adjust the pedals, and one for the column. Maybe the shifter too. Will that cover every thing?
Do we have someone here who can TIG up an aluminum seat if I get one made?
Quote from: "enjenjo"Do we have someone here who can TIG up an aluminum seat if I get one made?
What gauge? A little rusty on thin but can practice a little first.
got any idea what you want for a diff housing?
gonna get with a guy this weekend and get some 9" housings.
sounds like they'll be reasonably cheap...
3" or 3.25 tubes? big bearings i suppose?
we can deal with the width later...
Quote from: "moose"Quote from: "enjenjo"Do we have someone here who can TIG up an aluminum seat if I get one made?
What gauge? A little rusty on thin but can practice a little first.
This will be .120 and .090. Can you handle that?
Quote from: "tomslik"got any idea what you want for a diff housing?
gonna get with a guy this weekend and get some 9" housings.
sounds like they'll be reasonably cheap...
3" or 3.25 tubes? big bearings i suppose?
we can deal with the width later...
Either one will work, but a 3.25 would be stronger. Bearings are not an issue, I have ends in stock if we need to change them.
Quote from: "enjenjo"Quote from: "moose"Quote from: "enjenjo"Do we have someone here who can TIG up an aluminum seat if I get one made?
What gauge? A little rusty on thin but can practice a little first.
This will be .120 and .090. Can you handle that?
YEP
Quote from: "moose"Quote from: "enjenjo"Quote from: "moose"Quote from: "enjenjo"Do we have someone here who can TIG up an aluminum seat if I get one made?
What gauge? A little rusty on thin but can practice a little first.
This will be .120 and .090. Can you handle that?
YEP
Ok, I'll let you know.
I could handle the welding if no one else spoke up, but the cost to get it out to me would be outrageous!
I just checked my pics of "Blowfish", the car Trapanier did.
No drip rails, so we are ok there.
Thats good.
They also filled the cowl vents, and flush mounted all the windows.
This body has the cowl vents on the side, doors actually.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250400207200&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:MOTORS:1123
:shock:
Quote from: "tomslik"
ebay turd
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250400207200&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:MOTORS:1123)
:shock:
tomslik... that car is close to you. go snag that puppy up!
Quote from: "Crosley"Quote from: "tomslik"
ebay turd
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250400207200&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:MOTORS:1123)
:shock:
tomslik... that car is close to you. go snag that puppy up!
i'd go pick it up for ya.......... :lol:
Looks like a pretty nice body. Doesn't fit the frame real well though. Makes you realise just how narrow they are if that's a LUV running gear.
http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/1186284984.html
fix it again tony...
I just noticed how similar the lines of that Fiat are to the Crosley, but even smaller.
that Fiat should be $65.00 , not 650.00
Fiat 600 on Craig's List - clik here (http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/1186284984.html)
They were cleaning out the pats room at work and I drug this pedal home. Do you think we can use it?
Tom
It's dusty but new.
Seeing that pedal made me wonder about something. If different drivetrains will be used depending on where the car is, will the car have 3 pedals?
That thought crossed my mind too. To avoid each group cutting off and welding in different clutch linkage brackets why don't we install a pedal and hyd. clutch master cylinder. Then if they want a stick they can supply their own slave cyl. or hyd throw out bearing.
That just reminded me of something. Somewhere in my stash I have a new old stock Chevy/GMC truck brake/clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder. I think mine is the reversed one that mounts under the floor facing to the rear and not the firewall mount with the clutch cylinder on the left. You used to see a lot of these on hot rods and I have been saving it for something. Maybe this is it.
Tom
The plan is for it to have a Powerglide automatic transmission. One has already been given to us. There are any number of adapter bellhousings available to different engines and they also serve as a torque converter shield. I think the thought was to go with an automatic transmission rather than always having to have a scatershield and always modifying the floor for shifter and the scatershield and pedal problem. GPster
It makes sense to include a clutch pedal, and hydraulic sounds like a good idea.
Quote from: "GPster"The plan is for it to have a Powerglide automatic transmission. One has already been given to us. There are any number of adapter bellhousings available to different engines and they also serve as a torque converter shield. I think the thought was to go with an automatic transmission rather than always having to have a scatershield and always modifying the floor for shifter and the scatershield and pedal problem. GPster
I typically have listened to what I thought was said and gotten it wrong.
You got it right, but some people just want a stick shift to race,
The Powerglide is pretty much universal and a good idea. How would it work out at B'ville? Would we loose top end due to convertor slipage?
If we put in a clutch pedal it could either be used or not depending on the driveline of the moment. At least we would be sure it was done right initially.
Quote from: "39deluxe"The Powerglide is pretty much universal and a good idea. How would it work out at B'ville? Would we loose top end due to convertor slipage?
If we put in a clutch pedal it could either be used or not depending on the driveline of the moment. At least we would be sure it was done right initially.
you can assemble a tight = low RPM stall converter.
Or switch to a converter eliminator drive device.
Powerglides made for oval short tracks didn't use torque converters.
Don't know if anybody is still using them.
Going through Charlotte MI last evening I spotted a nice looking orange Crosley wagon sitting downtown. Looked to have Summit aluminum wheels ad set nice. Too bad I didn't have my camera with me. Are any of you MI guys familiar with this car?
Tom
Quote from: "39deluxe"Going through Charlotte MI last evening I spotted a nice looking orange Crosley wagon sitting downtown. Looked to have Summit aluminum wheels ad set nice. Too bad I didn't have my camera with me. Are any of you MI guys familiar with this car?
Tom
It belongs to * LaHaie. Tube chassis, 4.3 V6 Chevy power. He built it for his wife
No kidding? It sure is a nice looking car. I'd like to see it up close sometime.
BTW What do we need for parts donations to the RRT Racer yet. I was going to ask Sunday when I asked about the motor plate material but got sidetracked on something or the other.
Tom
I picked up a mid plate that was donated to the project the other day. It is already drilled for a Chevy bolt pattern.
We still need some type of shifter for the Glide, a Nodular 9" carrier, a 35 spline spool, a pair of good axles, roll cage tubing, steering wheel, seat belts, and a fuel cell.
Quote from: "enjenjo"I picked up a mid plate that was donated to the project the other day. It is already drilled for a Chevy bolt pattern.
We still need some type of shifter for the Glide, a Nodular 9" carrier, a 35 spline spool, a pair of good axles, roll cage tubing, steering wheel, seat belts, and a fuel cell.
Figure you know this, but I put it out there:
I am told .... that axles and spool splines fit better if they are the same brand / manufacture.
Carrier for large 3.250 bearings will be need for spool usually with 35 spline axles.
I would buy seat belts last for better SFI date code. Maybe use some old seat belts for fab purpose?
Will fuel cell be accessible via body panel removed or a remote fill port thru body panel? How many gallons? Mount tank up front near engine? Or is that allowed per rules?
What about water tank for engine cooling?
Shifter for glide with FWD pattern is suggested. You will be next to neutral while in gear 2
just stuff to think about
8)
QuoteFigure you know this, but I put it out there:
I am told .... that axles and spool splines fit better if they are the same brand / manufacture
Yes, I know. Our rear will be 40" wide. I was hoping to gind some used axles that are too long, and the splines can be dealt with when shortening. Moser always wants the spool grand when cutting axles for me, so I assume they know what fits. I would not throw rocks at 31 spline parts, we could use them too.
QuoteCarrier for large 3.250 bearings will be need for spool usually with 35 spline axles.
Yes, I know. As far as I know, there are no small bearing nodular carriers.
QuoteI would buy seat belts last for better SFI date code. Maybe use some old seat belts for fab purpose?
If we come up with out of date belts, we can have them rewebbed when we are ready to race. Half the price or less than new belts.
QuoteWill fuel cell be accessible via body panel removed or a remote fill port thru body panel? How many gallons? Mount tank up front near engine? Or is that allowed per rules?
The fuel cell will be in the rear of the car, with a removeable panel for access. We have to have a firewall between the tank and interior. I am thinking at least 5 gal., no more than 10 gal. We figure on mounting the battery up front, that may change though.
QuoteWhat about water tank for engine cooling?
At this point, we are just setting up for drag racing. Later on we can add a water tank. It will probably be inside the car on the right side.
QuoteShifter for glide with FWD pattern is suggested. You will be next to neutral while in gear 2
I agree.
I forgot about the re-web of belts pricing.
No cooling for engine at all on drag race effort?
Quote from: "Crosley"I forgot about the re-web of belts pricing.
No cooling for engine at all on drag race effort?
Depends on the engine, and the class it's running in. Some will need a radiator, some won't.
I found a wheel to match the one we had for the front of the car, so now we have a pair.
I bought the rod ends for the rear suspension. I found some Chrome Moly ones on Ebay for $20 each. We are now out of money. We need more subscriptions to move forward. So far we have spent $1813.13 including the money we reinvested from sale of parts.
The Rod ends for the rear suspension came in today. Chrome moly premium ends.
For the front suspension, do we want 1/2" or 5/8" rod ends? I think 1/2" will be strong enough but I would like some other opinions.
On hair pins or what? I forget the the plan and did not read back
four bar front end on torsion bars.
1/2 inch for a drag car would be fine. On a street car , i would use 5/8.
edit:
I did some looking around at parts. It seems many of the 4 bar kits for street use 1/2 inch bolts in double shear. I was thinking of single shear.
Kind of a 'duh' moment for me... you look at something often , yet never see what you need to sorta thing
8)
I know that I have no say in the matter , but if a replacement is ever needed isn't 5/8" easier to find & more "universal" ???
Bob.... :wink:
The plan is double shear mounts. 1/2" is easily available too, a bit lighter, and a bit cheaper for the good stuff.
My initial concern would be for strength because the front axel will have disc brakes. The facts that the size tire on the front and the fact that the vehecle will not have the majority of the weight on the front should cancel that concern. One thing that might be thrown into the mix is the starting line practices for a drag car. If you use the front brakes to hold the car while doing tire heating burn outs might that change the concern? It's probably been 40 years since I've been to a drag strip so the things I worry about is probably out-dated. GPster
Quote from: "enjenjo"I bought the rod ends for the rear suspension. I found some Chrome Moly ones on Ebay for $20 each. We are now out of money. We need more subscriptions to move forward. So far we have spent $1813.13 including the money we reinvested from sale of parts.
so, I guess we need another plan of attack here?
Quote from: "Crosley"Quote from: "enjenjo"I bought the rod ends for the rear suspension. I found some Chrome Moly ones on Ebay for $20 each. We are now out of money. We need more subscriptions to move forward. So far we have spent $1813.13 including the money we reinvested from sale of parts.
so, I guess we need another plan of attack here?
Well, we are going to need more people to subscribe, or those who have already invested to invest more, or come up with another way to finance it.
I'd like to support the car but right now, I'm supporting a fleet with Court driving to college, losing my company car (cost reduction? for WHO?!), Edie still running around with/for her brother, and Eli about to venture into driver's ed. I think I'll be supporting cars for a long time to come...at least Michigan has 10 cent cans and still enough folks throwing them out the windows!
I picked up some steel crates today, for free, that have some small tubing we can use on the Crosley. I got them from the TSC store for hauling them off.
DRD donated some Centerline wheels we might be able to use, or use for trading material for race car parts.
Excellent.
I watch this site every day to see if anybody has something new to say. Something new since 4/01/11. Now if we had someone with photo shop that could piece all the pictures together with centerline wheels on it and show everyone what it's going to look like. Thanks for the donation DRD. You should put a value on them so we can put you down for some shares in the project. Do you have any places where we can find some aluminum plate for a firewall? GPster
QuoteDo you have any places where we can find some aluminum plate for a firewall?
We have a midmount plate.
If you are looking to flat tow this at any point, I have a hitch assembly from a Jeep.
Just a thought...
Just out of curiosity, does any one have a pair of 31 spline good aftermarket axles, for a 9" Ford, over 24" long each that we could have shortened for the race car? That they would be willing to donate? How about a nodular iron carrier?
I have a pair of factory 78 Ford pickup 31 spline axles. Also have a decent CNC machine shop, turning and milling if I can make any custom parts. Autocad design.
Quote from: "zzebby"I have a pair of factory 78 Ford pickup 31 spline axles. Also have a decent CNC machine shop, turning and milling if I can make any custom parts. Autocad design.
I have factory 31 spline axles here. I would rather stay away from factory axles since we are using a spool, braking an axle can be a disaster with a spool. I'll keep the machine work in mind, we will probably need it.
I had a thought. If any one has some parts laying around that they are not using, and would be willing to sell, and donate the proceeds to the racer, it would be helpful to the cause. Or any parts that you would be willing to donate that we might be able to trade for parts we can use would work too.
I am also working on a couple ideas for a fund raiser, more when I get the idea firmed up.
I've been thinking about that too. I was wondering if we should get together at a Swap Meet and un-load contributions for the cause. The only place that come to mind to me would be Springfield. It would cut my mileage in half so that I could go and return on the same day. Would we count the value of the parts donated and sold towards project SHARES? I know with money tight maybe donating parts to sell would get more people involved if they thought they had a piece of it. An other idea would be if peoples "Want List" was made known here before Ebay. It's hard for me to gather the nerve to sell anything and make people think they need it. If someone makes known what they need and it's around maybe it'd be easier to donate money from the sale. I'd hate for my donation to clutter up your clean garage or new trailer. You may need the room when George gets his place clean. GPster
QuoteI've been thinking about that too. I was wondering if we should get together at a Swap Meet and un-load contributions for the cause.
I have a spot at the Coldwater swap meet May 12 and 13 to sell unneeded parts we have to raise money. I will have more room than I need, soif any one close has something they want to sell, bring it.
Untill I get the Jeepster pushed back into the garage this weekend and the tarp off of it I can't remember what I may have. Except for that '42 - '48 Ford radiator I think the rest of it would look like an S10 yard sale. I'd like to be there to help but I'm still trying to catch up from the five days I used for the "Hooley runs the Ohio Mile". If I don't get the chicken coop (should be coupe?) done soon I may be spending "Mother's Day" in it. GPster
I found a pair of new Delco shocks in my horde that may be usable. They appear rather short with eyes on both ends.
Do we know what length range we need yet?
Tom
Okay, Tony asked for an update, here it is.
The basic frame is done but will need further welding. The body is almost done, it needs some attention to some dents, and TLC all over, and some minor welding. We have a racing seat, it needs to be modified a bit, but is near new. We have all four wheels, and the front tires. We had slicks, but they were sold at a profit, and the money used for other parts.
The front axle, and suspension is made, we need to narrow the steering rack, and make mounts for it. The rear axle housing is made, still needs the brace final welded. The rear suspension needs the 4 link brackets modified, but is otherwise done.
The tilt front end needs extensive welding, and panels made to blend in the grille area.
We have a powerglide to go in it that has been rebuilt.
We need axles, rear brakes, roll cage, floor, windows, shifter, and many small things that have not been addressed yet.
The total spent so far is $1570 Wer have $100 on hand. The sale of the BBQ trailer will give us more
thanks for the update.
just tossing this out:
It was mentioned early on, as this project was discussed.
We did not want the project to become a job performed by 2-3 ppl. It seems that it has become a 4 - 7 ppl project. It is difficult for the folks at the western end of the country to get involved physically.
I had no new answers or different ideas that were not discussed before.
Shipping can get expensive. Moving the project via trailer is an option, yet costs are involved there too.
Are we still on path for a V8 or use any chevy based engine for the powerglide trans on hand? I dis like adapaters, yet the common BOP adapter to chevy bolt patterns is inexpensive. Proper converter setup spacing is required & simple
I am more than willing to move the project to another area to work on it. That was my original idea. The problem is we need some one who can store it between build days, and enough people in the area to make it worth wile.
As far as engines, most any GM engine can be coupled to the Glide with a simple plate adapter
as it's been over a year since the last update, what's the status?
Quote from: "tomslik"as it's been over a year since the last update, what's the status?
Nothing has been happening. We have $800 cash available to work with. We have not started on a roll cage yet. I have picked up some tubing for it. It has been a hassle trying to find a time where we can get together to work on it.
I'm up for a build day. Summer is winding down. Hopefully there will be more time to get together.
Tom