The Rodding Roundtable
Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: Okiedokie on January 05, 2009, 01:00:52 PM
Time to replace Momma's wheels. We bought a Toyota Highlander in 03 that has been outstanding. 90,000 on it and it still seems new to me. Our kids are in need of an affordable upgrade in their transportation [second kid came along] so we are going to sell it to them at a very good price and get a new something. My wife would like an exact duplicate, but the new ones are bigger/higher off the ground, and we both find them less than attractive. I really don't care a great deal, as long as she is happy with the vehicle. Since she has hesitated on the Toyota, I have began to think about buying American. I know a lot of an American car today is foreign, at least the money stays here. The one that has caught my eye is the Ford Taurus X. Close in size and such as the 03 Highlander. Certainly can be bought for a good deal less. The last new vehicle before the Toyota was a 98 Ford Explorer, which was not on a level with the Toyota regarding build quality. Have quality levels improved at Ford and others? I know this is not in the realm of the site, but I'd like your opinions. Joe
Very good decision buying American. With the economy the way it is, every dollar that goes overseas hurts us even more.
Quality has increased in American cars for many years now. Seldom have I heard of quality issues with American Cars. Sure there's an occasional exception, but I'm sure that's the same with any manufacturer.
My wife has a 2002 Monte Carlo that's been great to us overall, and we're thinking about taking it on a several thousand mile trip this spring. I drive a 2005 Avalanche and absolutely love it! NO Problems.
However, in your situation, I'd be looking at Saturn products. Very good quality and always has been. I used to have one and only sold it because my nephew needed a car and I needed a truck. Gas mileage is incredible in many of them.
Myself, I love the Cadillac CTS or Dodge Challenger, but the later may not be your taste. If you want a Ford, those mustangs sure are cool. The new Camaro is almost here. Detroit is making some nice cars these days...finally!
Steve
I like that NEW Challenger. Looks just like my old "Cuda.
I like the Saturn stuff too. We got a Vue AWD in '07 and the wife has driven the wheels off it, 43,000 and no probs. I really like the stying of the new Vues better than ours and the wife has made some noises about trading ours in for the new body style. I really like the size, not too big, but big enough...
Quote from: "butch27"I like that NEW Challenger. Looks just like my old "Cuda.
I seen one today at work in the parking lot. The guy was parking in the south 40 far away from anyone else despite having to walk much farther in below freezing weather.
The car just took my breath away and made me ache to go buy one. Now I can't remember the last time I felt that way ....if ever! (p.s. I'm a Chevy guy ...have 4 of them and even had a dog named Chevy!)
In a world filled with boring "functional" cars, this Challenger stands out like a swan in a polluted sewage pond. I don't care if it's a Chrysler 300 or Charger with a different coat on, it's style, class,...and something that finally stirs emotions.
If Detroit got the message years ago and built what people wanted they wouldn't be in this jam today. The quality is there and has been, but styling SUCKED!... at least things are starting to turn around. 1964-1974 was Detroit's finest years of styling ...IMHO.
Steve
The Saturn Vue is Mexican and the Challenger is Canadian.
Does it help American workers more or less than buying a Honda built in Ohio?
Quote from: "Flipper"The Saturn Vue is Mexican and the Challenger is Canadian.
Does it help American workers more or less than buying a Honda built in Ohio?
That may depend on the next car you buy? If Honda had a reason to lay workers off and GM had a reason to hire them at all these closed plants around here, maybe the dollars you spend on that car might end up in Detroit instead of Tokyo?
Any guesses on the trade deficit? I won't even get into inflation and other countries buying our debt.
But most people will hang on to their beliefs in what they hear and defend their right to buy a Civic because every other person thinks it's the right thing to do.
All I'm saying is take a test ride in a Civic if you want, but at least take a test drive in a Cadillac CTS or 2009 Malbu or Saturn, Mustang, Challenger even before you decide to buy.
Is it too much to ask Americans who may get laid off next month because of lack of demand at their company to at least give the Big 3 a chance at a test drive?
i just work on this stuff for a living and i wouldn't have a opel,er,saturn stuck up my....
kinda depends on what kind of vehicle you want.
something comparable to a hylander?
hybrid of some sort?
if so, MOST of the hybrids are toyota technology...
My next vehicle is a question too... Not sure , may be a Honda or Toyota product.
I would prefer a RWD vehicle , that will hard to find with a high mpg vehicle and larger interior space than a Corvette :lol:
Thanks for the reply's all. I have my hotrods for my fun, my F150 for utility, and my wifes vehicle is like the fridge, an appliance. Yeah, for me how it looks and performs is important, but second to hers. She does tolerate my addiction so I am ok with her first. I want to buy the best appliance that suits us. Hopefully it can be one that is American made. I'm lookin'. Joe
Anyone want to define" American made".
I understand your comment. In 94 I bought a new Honda Accord, my Dad a new Mercury. He went on and on about made in America. I happened on some info that showed that more of the Honda was made in America than the Mercury. At this point in time, my American made has more to do with where the money ends up. Although, the greediness of American CEO's makes me question the real value of where the dollars end up. I simply want to do what I learned growing up, make my dollars count for as much as I can. It is up to the American auto makers to make that be spent them with them. Joe
Quote from: "chopped"Anyone want to define" American made".
SI!
NORTH AMERICAN MADE(CANADA/USA/MEXICO).... :shock: :roll:
my other 2 spanish words are "taco and cervesa)
When Sharon needed a new car we decided to go with a Chevy HHR, love that car but it is really made in Mexico. Can't buy American without the money going outside the border.
I bought a new 2002 Saturn, next one will be a new Impala
The chevy equinox is built in canada with a chineese engine.
I looked at a mustang and it said the transmission was from France!
All of this labor outsourcing is one of the big reasons that loyalty to the big three has gone to *.
A very small precentage of the US population owes their livelyhood to the big three. In the good ole days, everybody had a family member that worked in automotive....and the whole family bought whatever the brand was that took care of them.
Back in 2000 we were looking for a new ride for my wife. She gets the new one and I get the hand-me-down. We had gone the van route twice and neither of us wanted another one. I asked her if she would consider a crew cab pickup. She kinda said show me, and we went looking. We bought a bright red, her favorite car color, 2000 Dodge Dakota, crew cab - 4 door - with the 4.7 V8 and automatic OD trans and most of the bells and whistles. I told her it had all the interior room of a car AND with the not quite full size bed we would have no trouble bringing things back when we went on trips or to Home Depot. That sounded good to her. Bottom line is she loved it, and its been one of the best vehicles we have ever owned. Lots of pep with the small V8 but still pretty good mileage, and when you close the doors you don't really know your in a truck. Dodge has a life time power train warranty now too that ours didn't have.
The Dodge is mine now. She has a 2005 Ford Five Hundred, which she hates. Lots of little warranty problems with it and a gas gauge that drops to empty when it hits the quarter tank line. They never have been able to fix that and it's out of warranty now. She wishes we would have bought another Dakota and we may yet and get rid of that Ford.
Lee
Quote from: "Flipper"All of this labor outsourcing is one of the big reasons that loyalty to the big three has gone to ####.
I beg to differ. :)
As a regular visitor to the 'States, I make note of getting a different (hire) car each time I come. (monthly visits)
Keep in mind these are mid-full sized cars only, I have seen some shockers. :shock:
Here's some examples:
Pontiac G6 ('08 model with low milage)
Quiet and comfortable with enough poke to have fun.
Severely lacking in suspension development, the thing would wallow through corners to the point of lurching when pushed hard.
Ford Mustang ('08 model)
Cool! A mustang...8)
Huh? Rear vision is virtually non-existant :shock:
Wha? The engine cut out 5 minutes into the journey *everything dead*
:?: 10 minutes later, the car could be started again and showed no signs of the previous issue.
:? The customer service desk was not suprised when I returned 20 minutes after picking up the car and politely asked for a replacement.
Chevrolet Monte Carlo ('09 model)
Quiet and comfortable. Warmed seats A+
Drank fuel at regular highway speeds
Handled like a waterbed
Designed and assembled in a lego factory
Until the US car makers can provide the style, fit, finish and reliability in comparison to the rest of the world, then they shall become #1.
Until that day....I'll keep laughin' :lol: :wink:
Caleb.
I work at a GM dealer so I'm a little biased but for god sakes don't buy a Pontiac Torrent/Chev. Equinox.
I am so sick of fixing these things
Jeff
My sister-in-law bought a 2008 Saturn Vue and thinks it's great except for the fuel economy. 17 mpg. But I don't believe you can expect very good from a V-6 4 wheel drive vehicle that probably weghs 4000 lbs
Quote from: "tonto1"My sister-in-law bought a 2008 Saturn Vue and thinks it's great except for the fuel economy. 17 mpg. But I don't believe you can expect very good from a V-6 4 wheel drive vehicle that probably weghs 4000 lbs
I don't know about that. I have a 2007 Hyundai Veracruz that seats 7 cruises down the highway at 75mph no problem and gets 26mpg while doing it. Over the course of 15,000 miles in the last year the lifetime fuel economy is almost 21 miles to the gallon. It has a 260 horse 3.8l V-6 and a 6 speed auto trans. And the kicker is that it cost me about half the price of a comparable GM or Ford crossover with a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty.
I'm wondering why Chevy decided to get rid of a good seller in the S-10 that gets good gas mileage and replace it with the Colorado that doesn't do any better (actually a bit worse on mileage) and cost more than an S-10.
Quote from: "Fat Cat"Quote from: "tonto1"My sister-in-law bought a 2008 Saturn Vue and thinks it's great except for the fuel economy. 17 mpg. But I don't believe you can expect very good from a V-6 4 wheel drive vehicle that probably weghs 4000 lbs
I don't know about that. I have a 2007 Hyundai Veracruz that seats 7 cruises down the highway at 75mph no problem and gets 26mpg while doing it. Over the course of 15,000 miles in the last year the lifetime fuel economy is almost 21 miles to the gallon. It has a 260 horse 3.8l V-6 and a 6 speed auto trans. And the kicker is that it cost me about half the price of a comparable GM or Ford crossover with a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty.
Is that 10-100,000 warranty from the factory or a dealer add on insurance policy??
:shock:
Quote from: "Crosley"Quote from: "Fat Cat"Quote from: "tonto1"My sister-in-law bought a 2008 Saturn Vue and thinks it's great except for the fuel economy. 17 mpg. But I don't believe you can expect very good from a V-6 4 wheel drive vehicle that probably weghs 4000 lbs
I don't know about that. I have a 2007 Hyundai Veracruz that seats 7 cruises down the highway at 75mph no problem and gets 26mpg while doing it. Over the course of 15,000 miles in the last year the lifetime fuel economy is almost 21 miles to the gallon. It has a 260 horse 3.8l V-6 and a 6 speed auto trans. And the kicker is that it cost me about half the price of a comparable GM or Ford crossover with a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty.
Is that 10-100,000 warranty from the factory or a dealer add on insurance policy??
:shock:
Factory warrantee.
Fat Cat, it sounds like you might buy another Hyundai???? I don't see the half price difference with Ford/Gm, but I have heard some good reports on their product. Is the 100,000 mile warranty something that is doable, or are the requirements hard to meet? Joe
Both my sons are driving Hyundai Vera Cruz, my other son also has a Hyundai Azera. He needed some warantee work on the Azera, as long as he could document regular oil changes, it was no problem.
Hello;
I had a 2000 Hyundai Sonata that we leased new and the warranty work was really super! I even drove in one day and complained about my battery going dead and they did a check and replaced it right where you drive in for service! Then, we used it as a trade in for the 02 Trailblazer we purchased (same dealer). So far, pushing over a 100K on the Chevy and thing just keeps on runnin! Hope I get it paid for (end of this year) before it needs anything major.
Bruce
hyundai's ain't the peice of crap they USED to be.....
still have nightmares of accents.....
kia's on the other hand.... :(D)
Quote from: "enjenjo"He needed some warantee work on the Azera, as long as he could document regular oil changes, it was no problem.
even a non-oil related repair?
like maybe AC service?
just curious
later jim
Quote from: "river1"Quote from: "enjenjo"He needed some warantee work on the Azera, as long as he could document regular oil changes, it was no problem.
even a non-oil related repair?
like maybe AC service?
just curious
later jim
If you can document regular service, I know of no issues with anything.
Quote from: "tomslik"hyundai's ain't the peice of crap they USED to be.....
still have nightmares of accents.....
kia's on the other hand.... :(D)
The wife has one, 120,000 on it with nothing but scheduled maint. Gets 38 on the highway.
Quote from: "Okiedokie"Fat Cat, it sounds like you might buy another Hyundai???? I don't see the half price difference with Ford/Gm, but I have heard some good reports on their product. Is the 100,000 mile warranty something that is doable, or are the requirements hard to meet? Joe
I would buy another one. Actually if I were to replace my current daily driver (Olds Silhouette) I would replace it with a Hyundai Santa Fe. When we were looking at cars last year I had planned to replace it with a Chevy Uplander as that was the replacement for the Olds. But we could not find one with seats that felt anywhere near as comfortable as the Olds seats. We really liked the Buick Enclave but could not afford the $42,000 price tag. We then looked at a Ford Escape as my brother had one before the Hyundai and I liked it and liked the way it rode and felt from the drivers seat. When we went to look at new ones we found that they had redesigned the whole car and the interior was all wrong. The steering wheel felt like it was 4 foot away from me. My arms were fully extended with no bend at the elbow and my knees were up against the dash. Next we looked at the Ford Edge. The dealer we looked at had a 1 year old Edge Limited for $25,000. After that I told the wife we should look at the Hyundai as Brother Love liked his and I knew the cost was about the same as the 1 year old Edge. We bought our Hyundai new with 138 miles on it for $24,400 after taxes with most of the features of the Buick Enclave we looked at.
Quote from: "tomslik"hyundai's ain't the peice of crap they USED to be.....
still have nightmares of accents.....
kia's on the other hand.... :(D)
The statememtn on the Hyundays is good to know
Quote from: "enjenjo"Quote from: "river1"Quote from: "enjenjo"He needed some warantee work on the Azera, as long as he could document regular oil changes, it was no problem.
even a non-oil related repair?
like maybe AC service?
just curious
later jim
If you can document regular service, I know of no issues with anything.
actually what i meant was if you went in for AC service, would they ask for oil change records?
later jim
Quote from: "river1"
actually what i meant was if you went in for AC service, would they ask for oil change records?
later jim
They do have regular interval services that are done by a Hyundai dealer that they will hassle you about if you do not have them done. The first one is at 3,750 miles the next one is at 15,000 and then at 15,000 miles after that. They will hassle you about warranty repairs if these srvice checks are not done. The first one was $99 and they inspect the whole car, top off all the fluids and give you a 3 page printout of everything they check. The 15,000 one is $249 and I have not had it done yet so I do not know what all they check or do.
i keep thinking about what HYPORX said back at the end of page one.. about rent a cars handling like waterbeds...
i would imagine that most of the suspension options selected by rent a car companys are chosen over piles of complaints about cars that ride like bricks...
and also soft enough to prevent aggressive driving by renters from taking out the fleet... the hard way...
as for new cars... i have seen many cars go well over 200K miles without too much other than normal brakes and oil changes.... unless pushed by aggressive driving habits like normal driving with the accelerator firmly planted on the floor at every stop light.. i actually know people who drive like that... they are forever in the transmission shop..
Quote from: "wayne petty"i keep thinking about what HYPORX said back at the end of page one.. about rent a cars handling like waterbeds...
i would imagine that most of the suspension options selected by rent a car companys are chosen over piles of complaints about cars that ride like bricks...
and also soft enough to prevent aggressive driving by renters from taking out the fleet... the hard way...
as for new cars... i have seen many cars go well over 200K miles without too much other than normal brakes and oil changes.... unless pushed by aggressive driving habits like normal driving with the accelerator firmly planted on the floor at every stop light.. i actually know people who drive like that... they are forever in the transmission shop..
My experience with rentals is that they are stripped down versions of nice cars. I rented a Chrysler 300 about three years ago and i couldn't believe how stripped it was, My pickup had far more options in it. I rented a Charger the next year and it was the same way. They basically came with a key and a heater. I know you can rent a "luxury" model, but I can't afford those, but I don't know if you can buy a Chrysler 300 as stripped as the one we rented. It was still a nice car and got great milage, probaby because it has a 2.7L V-6. I almost wrecked the 300 about a half mile from the rental lot. went lock to lock a couple times on some black ice on an overpass! Wasn't expecting that in North Carolina...good thing I'm from Michigan and didn't panic :lol:
Our HHR is a former Fox Rental company car. I was surprised when I got the build sheet to find out it had an optional "soft" suspension. Not sure what components that includes, but I've beefed it up a bit and love the way it handles now. It was hard to turn without wallowing before the changes.
I'd say at least try out an American car. I get a new car every year through my company and I've not had to take one in for repair in the last 5 or 6 years other than a faulty power door lock switch in one. They had that fixed while the oil was being changed. I feel their quality has dramatically improved in the last few years. I just got a new Dodge Nitro, It's the first SUV type vehicle I've ever had and I'm very inpressed - gas mileage is quite good for a fairly large vehicle and the fits and finishes are great.My wife says that's what we're getting from now on! Although I hear they may be eliminated from their product line. They're built like a Jeep, but mine is just 2 wheel drive. (rear wheel)
Having known you longer than all of these guys I always saw you as a Peugeot or Renault kind of guy. Maybe with subtle hints of Fiat, Alfa Romeo and Citroen thrown in occasionally. :P
Quote from: "Crosley"Quote from: "tomslik"hyundai's ain't the peice of crap they USED to be.....
still have nightmares of accents.....
kia's on the other hand.... :(D)
The statememtn on the Hyundays is good to know
Kia is building a monster plant on the Ga. Al. border so they soon will be built by "good ole boys"