The Rodding Roundtable

Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: Crosley.In.AZ on December 18, 2008, 10:22:35 PM

Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: Crosley.In.AZ on December 18, 2008, 10:22:35 PM
We have this old corvette motor in the shop... setup for a special autometic /converter combo.

You do not see many of these engines laying around.

see photos
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: wayne petty on December 19, 2008, 12:10:43 AM
I love the starter location...  under the intake manifold...

since that motor was manufactured for gm by mercury marine... does it use antifreeze... or salt water for coolant??? i have always wondered... :lol:
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: Bib_Overalls on December 19, 2008, 12:13:43 AM
I did not know such a thing existed.  The starter location will really open up space in a tight chassis.
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: 29bowtie on December 19, 2008, 12:20:18 AM
I remember California Street Rods built that 32 Chevy roadster(Experi-metal steel repro body) with one of those ZR-1 engines. It was some organizations give away car.
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: Grandadeo on December 19, 2008, 12:44:42 AM
Quote from: "29bowtie"I remember California Street Rods built that 32 Chevy roadster(Experi-metal steel repro body) with one of those ZR-1 engines. It was some organizations give away car.

NSRA Giveaway car at the Nats several years ago.  I believe Chevy donated a ZR-1 as a parts car for the build.  Wonder where it is now.

Lee
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: Jbird on December 19, 2008, 12:34:50 PM
Is this engine based on the Caddy Northstar dohc 32valve unit? Sure looks similar, and, the starter is in the same place.  Jbird 8)
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: rumrumm on December 19, 2008, 12:46:55 PM
This engine was designed by Lotus and built for GM by Mercury Marine. It was discontinued for the Corvette when the LS series came into production. I have an acquaintance in town that has a 'vette with this ZR-1 engine. It is a pretty cool engine and I don't know why GM discontinued it and went back to a pushrod V8. Perhaps it was deemed too expensive to continue building for just one vehicle. But they also built the Aztec, so who knows what goes on in the heads of GM muckety-mucks.
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: unklian on December 19, 2008, 04:04:32 PM
Quote from: "rumrumm"...But they also built the Aztec, ...


Someone thought it was a good idea,
and they convinced their Bosses to go along with it.


Ugly 4 cyl econo-box.      Just the sort of thing Washington wants.    :roll:
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: enjenjo on December 19, 2008, 07:01:59 PM
QuoteUgly 4 cyl econo-box. Just the sort of thing Washington wants.  

Preview of the Pelosi.
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: tomslik on December 19, 2008, 07:04:55 PM
Quote from: "Jbird"Is this engine based on the Caddy Northstar dohc 32valve unit? Sure looks similar, and, the starter is in the same place.  Jbird 8)


late model land cruiser starters are in the same place :roll:
probably others too.

i don't think the vette motor leaks oil.

thats a standard option on the northstars and aurora engines.
:shock:

now, don't go picking on the asstick, the tiger woods buick version ain't no prize...
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: Crosley.In.AZ on December 19, 2008, 07:18:37 PM
This is a new crate motor...  these engines were never released with an automatic trans in the vette.

The crank shaft has a different pilot hole diameter than a regular chevy engine V8 design.  The inner side of the 4L80E bell housing at the top peak area  will need a slight clearance adjustment  for the starter bendix to clear.

The story is the motor was shipped to us for the installation of a 4L80E trans with a custom converter... then the motor & trans are to be shipped to Iraq for a street rod under construction there.

I wonder if our troops are involved in a rod building project?
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: 57larry on December 19, 2008, 07:56:16 PM
looks like an old 283 :wink:
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: wayne petty on December 19, 2008, 08:09:58 PM
Quote from: "Crosley"This is a new crate motor...  these engines were never released with an automatic trans in the vette.

The story is the motor was shipped to us for the installation of a 4L80E trans with a custom converter... then the motor & trans are to be shipped to Iraq for a street rod under construction there.

I wonder if our troops are involved in a rod building project?


i take it that you are also going to include the torque converter bolts, trans to engine bolts,  trans mount with hardware.. for ease of installation over there.. just for good will..  

maybe offer a locking dipstick tube that is bent to properly fit that motor.

some kind of torque converter cover... cast aluminum version with the with the starter opening welded up... so it can seal tight...

one more thing...   does that possible desert sand area call for a dust boot type rear seal like was used on mopar transmissions as an option for the customer to consider as an option...

there are just thoughts....
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: Crosley.In.AZ on December 19, 2008, 09:50:38 PM
wayne,

it will include the proper hardware since this is a one off installation.

dust cover?  I doubt that.

I do not even know what controller will be used for the 4L80E  or the engine.

I knew one of the engineers at the  time GM was testing the 4L80E transmission behind this engine.  He told me the engine struggled to recover RPM after a shift because the converter was too heavy.  I remember telling him :" build a lighter converter"


8)
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: OldSub on December 19, 2008, 11:24:37 PM
Quote from: "rumrumm"It is a pretty cool engine and I don't know why GM discontinued it and went back to a pushrod V8.
I've been told they take special tools and training to keep them running.  One 'vette publication says make sure you have a good ZR-1 ready service facility within a couple hundred miles.

They don't compete performance wise with the much less complicated or expensive LS-7 motors available in today's Corvettes.
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: rumrumm on December 20, 2008, 12:16:38 PM
Quote from: "OldSub"
Quote from: "rumrumm"It is a pretty cool engine and I don't know why GM discontinued it and went back to a pushrod V8.
I've been told they take special tools and training to keep them running.  One 'vette publication says make sure you have a good ZR-1 ready service facility within a couple hundred miles.

They don't compete performance wise with the much less complicated or expensive LS-7 motors available in today's Corvettes.


Maybe that is why we never see the NSRA give-away Chevy roadster.
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: 39deluxe on December 27, 2008, 01:17:37 PM
The ZR1 was a high cost option from 1990 through 1995. It doubled the cost of the car. When they developed the LT4 option for 1996 it had the same performance at normal small block cost which helped to make 1995 the last year for the DOHC Lotus designed engine. Then in 1997 when the LS1 was introduced that changed everything. Today's LS3 base motor for the Corvette makes 436 hp with the Z06 making 505 and the new ZR1 making 638 hp. All using much cheaper to build and simple to maintain pushrod architecture. That's why the a stock production C6 ZR1 set a new GT class record at the Nuernbergring a few months ago besting all comers no  matter what they cost. The record has been broken since then by a race prepared Viper on race tires but that don't take anything away from a car being run right off the assembly line and into the record books. The driver was jim Mero, a GM chassis developement engineer and not a professional race driver. Ride along here ---------> http://vettetube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=89124e2ce92984e04fb4

Tom
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: purplepickup on December 27, 2008, 10:35:43 PM
Quote from: "39deluxe"Ride along here ---------> http://vettetube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=89124e2ce92984e04fb4

Tom
WOW!   I've got some good studio headphones and a large monitor and that was one hell of a ride. Sure would have liked to have been behind the wheel.  I noticed he shifted at 175 mph in that long straight section.  Nice...thanks 8)
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: Crosley.In.AZ on December 28, 2008, 10:32:00 AM
obviously the engineer Jim Mero has experience at driving fast and a few miles at  that track....  beyond that ,  the ZR1 2009 Corvette is an amazing machine.

Back in the mid - late 1970's  on into the 1980's who would have thought that the engine power would be at the levels they are today?  And still with the basic push rod design of the great-grandpa 265 cid small block engine
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: 39deluxe on December 28, 2008, 03:02:14 PM
I had the opportunity to ride in a pre-production prototype C6 Z06 a few months before they were released for sale with a friend that was a contract engineer to the Bowling Green assembly plant. At the time I could not imagine why anyone would ever need more car for the street and then they up the ante by over 130 horsepower by using a supercharger on a smaller displacement engine. They also improved every aspect of the car and lost a bunch of weight using carbon fiber. I haven't ridden in one yet but I hope it's soon.

Tom
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: 39deluxe on December 28, 2008, 03:13:41 PM
I just happened to remember that I have a few ZR1 photos from the Corvette Classics Museum in Ft. Wayne. There is a whole row of them across the back wall.

[/img]
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: OldSub on December 28, 2008, 04:16:58 PM
That is amazing to watch.  He touched 180 maybe 1000 rpm short of the peak I'd seen in a lower gear.

I also noticed he hit the bumpy edge of the track a few times.  That both means he hadn't run it at speed enough times to get the line down perfect, AND the car must handle fantastic to do that at well over 100 and remain stable and predictable.

Suppose anyone would trade one of those for my old C4?  I need one!
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: 39deluxe on December 28, 2008, 08:06:37 PM
I don't blame him for missing a few apexes. There are few that have mastered the Ring. It's 12.9 miles with 33 left hand and 40 right hand turns. Here is a map link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nordschleife.png

There is a lady driver that gives high speed laps to passengers in a BMW that is supposed to be about the best there is on the Ring. Can't remember her name right now but this is what she does for a living.
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: purplepickup on December 28, 2008, 10:07:58 PM
Quote from: "39deluxe"
There is a lady driver that gives high speed laps to passengers in a BMW that is supposed to be about the best there is on the Ring. Can't remember her name right now but this is what she does for a living.
Her name is Sabine Schmitz.  Here is a youtube onboard video of her racing in the rain.  
&index=3

I watched a bunch of these last night.....full screen, volume cranked :D
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: river1 on December 29, 2008, 05:01:18 AM
Quote from: "purplepickup"Her name is Sabine Schmitz.  

seems to be a heck of a driver. she's pretty cute too :P>  :P>

(http://profile.ak.facebook.com/object3/1516/102/l14911492561_3302.jpg)

later jim
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: 39deluxe on December 29, 2008, 08:47:04 PM
Great video. She is good but the Corvette makes better noises.

Tom
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: rumrumm on December 30, 2008, 11:34:30 AM
That is an amazing video. It would be fun to see how much further an experienced race driver could take it. I'll bet Sabine could put that 'Vette through its paces.
Title: Old Vette motor in the shop
Post by: wayne petty on December 30, 2008, 12:57:56 PM
thinking about sabine...

did you see her put a ford van around the ring..

http://www.topgear.com/us/videos/more/sabine-a-van-the-ring-part-1

and even faster in part two

http://www.topgear.com/us/videos/more/sabine-a-van-the-ring-part-2

enjoy... the insanity of it