The Rodding Roundtable
Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: Dave on May 13, 2008, 05:12:11 PM
hell we are there 3.99.9 thats 4 bucks in my book... who ever came up with the .9 crap anyway .. they should be shot .. I was plannin on paying 4 bucks A Gallon here in michigan till i got to indiana this weekend but * thats crazy :lol: Its actually 3.98 right up the street from me but the exit where i work is still 3.79 and was that this morning when i put gas in the G/P .. I have to drive the truck tomorrow . Id ride the bike but its gonna rain they say..
Dave :wink: :arrow:
Hey Dave, an article in our newspaper showed that about 11% of the stations in my area are inaccurate.Guess whose getting hosed! The federal govt. is taking steps to legislate testing gas pump accuracy every 2 years . Untill now pumps were calibrated when installed and then only checked if someone complained!At $1.31.9 per litre we are over $5/US Gal.
one thing announced on the news radio out here in los angeles is a reduction of drive times during rush hour... seems there are less cars being driven...
oh and to make that great news even better... the MTA announced bus route cuts ... mta is the main local bus company here in la..
most of the main lines run at least 2 sets of busses now... local normal length busses... and 60 or 65 foot articulated busses as rapid busses with limited stops... many lines already stop at 6 pm... and many many more.. stop at 8 pm... main lines...
Michigan is dropping the 20cent gas tax for memorial weekend, Im sure the oil hogs are going to adjust to compensate...
Quote from: wayne pettyone thing announced on the news radio out here in los angeles is a reduction of drive times during rush hour... seems there are less cars being driven...
oh and to make that great news even better... the MTA announced bus route cuts ... mta is the main local bus company here in la..Quote
They had a different 'solution' to the same issue here, Turn every free/tollway into a construction zone, close at least one lane, reduce the speed limit and adda bunch of tax/speed cameras. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I drove back from North Carolina today and gas prices were all over the place. i filled up in Raleigh last night st $3.61 and in the Virginias it was anywhere from$3.69 to $3.89. On th Ohio Turnpike, where it's always outragious it was $3.77 :shock: When I pulled off the freeway here in Port Huron, Mi. it was $3.98!!! It's gonna have an effect on my driving now for sure. :evil:
i broke down and bought a gass powered shop truck and parked my powerstroke except to pull the enclosed trailer. we use the gas rig for the open trailer as well, just could not see paying 60 cents more for the diesel... between filling both of them up and two race cars with 6.50 a gallon race gas it makes a day of racing kinda hard to justify sometimes... well nawww, I still like it.............
$3.79 here in town. It's getting to where we won't be able to afford to drive to work anymore. I got a whopping 3% raise this year....what a joke. Food alone has gone up over 5% in just a couple months. Doesn't even touch gas.
I agree with Dave, the .9 is really stupid.
Quote from: "58 Yeoman"$3.79 here in town. It's getting to where we won't be able to afford to drive to work anymore. I got a whopping 3% raise this year....what a joke. Food alone has gone up over 5% in just a couple months. Doesn't even touch gas.
I agree with Dave, the .9 is really stupid.
My raise last november was 28 cents :? Our max here is 30 yet they expect us to be at work every day :!: Oh well.. I had to drive the truck today and sue is in the car.. Thats life.. She has to leave early and i guess as long as im in town ill run out to hunting grounds and grab my tree stand as i dont know if i can hunt there this coming november.. That will knock off an extra trip ti retrieve that.. Im gonna put a lot of miles on starting friday evening and its my * vacation and im gonna enjoy it :lol: :lol: I sure wish the weather would get better so i can ride the bike more.. Ill have the laptop with me so ill report on the gas prices while im out running around
Dave :wink: :arrow:
I'm retired but my wife has a 120 mi. round work trip. It's been a way of life for us for a long time. Allowed us to have city jobs and the country lifestyle we love.Because I don't believe there is a limit to how high prices will be allowed to go we were going to put the house on the market and move intown. Falling house prices have put a temp hold on that. With about 70% equity we can sell but i need to get used to the hit I'm going to take. I don't thing anyone really knows who's responsible for this but they are the most powerful people in the world and are hellbent on doing something, I'm just not sure what.
you guys are catching us up quick!
20 cents gas tax, are you serious? thats all ? I guess thats the big difference between us and yourselves, our tax is something like 60%, then they charge sales tax on top of that, so we pay sales tax on the fuel tax!, works out our gas is something like 80%+ tax.
Current prices here are £1.11 regular gas, £1.21 diesel, thats per litre though! makes it around £4.20 for a US gallon, thats about $8.20 a us gallon. I'd guess we've seen a 10% rise inside 12 onths, which isnt quite as bad as you guys.
Been reading some financial stuff, seems the word is half the cost of a barrel of oil is speculation, driven by traders investing in it, no assurances but it seems likely that the cost will come down at some point, question is will the oil companies play ball and reduce the cost of gas ? I doubt it!
Dave, I visited the gear shop across the street from your workplace yesterday and noticed the Mobil station at Chelsea exit was 4.09/gal.
I've been going back and forth to Traverse City hauling a trailer full of building materials for a guest house I'm building on my property up there. I just filled the tank on my van and a chainsaw gas can for $147.
I have noticed that if I set the cruise on about 62mph that I get 3 mpg better than I did at 70. For the 500 mile round trip I burn 29 gallons instead of 34. I'm only saving about $20 per trip but this weekend will be my 5th trip in as many weeks, so it adds up.
I also noticed a lot less cars on the road.
Quote from: "purplepickup"Dave, I visited the gear shop across the street from your workplace yesterday and noticed the Mobil station at Chelsea exit was 4.09/gal.
I've been going back and forth to Traverse City hauling a trailer full of building materials for a guest house I'm building on my property up there. I just filled the tank on my van and a chainsaw gas can for $147.
I have noticed that if I set the cruise on about 62mph that I get 3 mpg better than I did at 70. For the 500 mile round trip I burn 29 gallons instead of 34. I'm only saving about $20 per trip but this weekend will be my 5th trip in as many weeks, so it adds up.
I also noticed a lot less cars on the road.
Geeze ya shoulda stopped by .. I wasnt busy yesterday if i remember right :?: :lol: I have a couple machines that i primarily keep running but im thinnin yesterday was a slow day.. I guess you were at Dexter Gear right? If you remember by buddy willie (he came to kzoo a few times with me)he used to work for them in fact his father in law now deceased started the place... Today I was working on the add on shock mounts for the roadster. Ill post on that later with pics. 2 more days and im on vacation to indiana :lol: If all goes right its gonna be a really fun week.. Oh ya Chelsea is always high and im assuming you got off at Baker road so its still 3.79.9 (theres that .9 again..)
Dave
Same situation here in OZ .Around my neck of the woods gasoline is around $1.40 per litre [4.55 litres to our imperial gallon]One way out is to go LPG. 60.5 cents AUD per litre. Our Gummint gives you a $2000 rebate for converting also........Frank.
Ya know, a learned friend of mine once said that the government should step in and stop the commodity trading like we did with silver, re the Hunt brothers. I admit I agreed at that time but in hind site it won't work because it's a worldwide commodity. If they can't trade it here, then maybe England or Hong Kong or wherever.
The problem as I see it is limited supply and huge demand, period. We, the US of A are playing the wait & see game. You know, better they use theirs then we use ours.
Make no mistake, big money is at the base of this crap. Is there a star chamber running this junk? I don't know.
Anyway, I think I've got a solution, rationing ( I might add that currently I'm consuming huge quantizes of Chianti). That's correct rationing but not how you think. Better said it's limitation on reality priced fuel. It's the economy we're worried about here and the negative impact on it that is my driver. As an example, if you can't get to work, there's a problem. If you can't buy food, insurance, mortgage and health, there's a problem. Disproportional distribution of funds too any one sector will cause a CAPITALISM problem.
Unfortunately, viewing this problem through my eyes states an obvious answer, Rationing.
I don't know what the parameters are but as an example you would sell petrol at a standard price, say $2.50 per gallon for a given amount (gallons per), as that seemed to be adjustable and acceptable. Everything purchased beyond that price would be market driven.
Now......I don't know whether the determning factor would be based on the number of cars you own, the number of licensed drivers, per residence, or what ever but I do know it takes a number.
Would there be a black market........sure but who cares. We can limit the number of gallons served based on cost, make the big users pay, protect our economy and answer more stuff that I can't address, at this time.
Anyway that's one wino's thoughts................................Frank
Well now thats interesting but I dont think its gonna happen but then your drunk and trying to save the economy along with lowering gas prices.. The way I see it is were just plain screwed.. The dollar is down and forget what the pollsters say un employment is way up (the government never could count anyway) and forget any cost of living increases for any of us non union workers.. We will be paying out the * for gas from now on.. So the only answer I have is to watch what I spent on trivial B/S so I can go on vacation and races and have fun.. Oh ya maybe car show or 2 also.. Im at a time in my life that ive got 4 weeks a year vacation and a pretty good vacation check for that time and im not gonna sit home.. Unless someone cuts off foreign oil completely here you wont see any rationing cause the greedy sob's in the oil business want every dollar not just part of it but all of it.. One thing i agree with though to bring prices down is to quit stockpiling oil in the reserves.. we have like 5 times more oil stockpiled than we need but i figure that just makes George richer.. :)
So in a nut shell i dont agree with your answer to fix the situation but ill bet mine prolly wont fly either..
Dave :wink:
We're running about 3.60 in colorado, wonder why the difference?
The Truth about Oil
By Vasko Kohlmayer
FrontPageMagazine.com | 5/8/2008
A recent survey on the environment found that seventy percent of people worldwide think that the planet is running out oil. Only less than one quarter believe that there is enough of it to keep it as a primary source of energy. Petro pessimism runs especially high in the United States where a full two thirds think that the point of depletion is within sight.
Here are some hard facts.
According the Energy Information Administration as of January 2007 there was more than 1.3 trillion barrels of proved crude oil on earth. Even if this were all the oil on the planet there would be no immediate danger of shortages, because at the current rate of consumption – roughly 85 million barrels a day – this supply would last for more than 40 years.
But the 1.3 trillion in these so-called proved reserves refers only to a tiny fraction of earth's oil, designating only that portion which can be extracted under current 'economic and operating conditions.' As it happens, this figure grows with each decade and usually dramatically so.
In 1882, for instance, there were 95 million barrels of proved petroleum reserves. This number jumped to 4.5 billion in 1926 and then to 10 billion in 1932. In 1944 the quantity stood at 20 billion. In 1950 it leaped to 100 billion and in 1980 it was 648 billion. In 1993 the world's proved reserves grew to 999 billion, and today they stand at 1.3 trillion barrels.
These figures show that our ever-increasing consumption has not over the years reduced the pool of available oil. In fact, the exact opposite is the case – each successive year we have more of it than ever before. Contrary to the conventional wisdom, mankind's oil supplies are not getting depleted, but they keep continually expanding.
There are several reasons for this. New exploration and advancements in surveying techniques in particular result in fresh finds almost every year.
We have seen a dramatic instance of this at the end of last year when a massive reservoir was discovered in the Tupi sector off the coast of Brazil. Estimated to hold some 8 billion barrels of recoverable crude it was the second largest find in the last 20 years. Two months later an even greater deposit was located nearby which may hold as much as 30 billion barrels. If confirmed, the field would be the third biggest on the planet, behind only the Ghawar in Saudi Arabia and the Burgan in Kuwait. Many scientists are now convinced that intense exploration fuelled by high prices will yield comparable discoveries in other places of the globe.
Adding appreciably to the proved reserves is the continual perfecting of drilling techniques. This makes it possible to tap deposits which because of their depth or geological environment were off limits only a few years ago. Today's equipment can perform mind-boggling feats of horizontal drilling and there are oil rigs capable of reaching 35,000 feet under the surface, about double of what the previous generation could do.
Rising prices also make available oil which was previously considered unrecoverable commercially, because for whatever reason the extraction cost per barrel exceeded the price it could fetch on the market. With every jump in price, however, more and more of such oil is brought up as its production becomes profitable.
Finally, improvements in extraction processes make it possible to more fully utilize currently harvested reservoirs. Due to technical and economic limitations, normally only a portion of an oilfield can be recovered (it is this part that is referred to as the 'proved' reserve). A few decades ago the average oil recovery rate from reservoirs was 20%, but thanks to technological progress this rate is nearing 40% today.
It is the combination of these factors that accounts for the fact that more and more is added every year to mankind's stock of crude oil. This in turn results in a seemingly paradoxical outcome. Even as our consumption increases with each passing year, the projected depletion point keeps moving further out into the future.
In 1986, for instance, it was estimated that the world's proved reserves would last 38 years. On that estimate we should only have 17 years worth of oil left. But because the figure in the 'proved reserves' column keeps getting larger, we now have more than 40 years.
This dynamic has been in place ever since gasoline began to be mass consumed. Due to the continuing exploration and technological advancement, we can be virtually assured that two or three decades from now we will be talking about another 40 or 50 or more years worth of crude. Cambridge Energy Research Associates, one of the world's premier energy advisors, predicts that earth's proved reserves could increase by as much as 25% by 2015.
But there is more to the story. So far we have only been considering crude oil, but crude is not the sole source of this strategic commodity. There are far greater amounts of it locked in other materials such as shale, coal and tar sands.
Proven technologies exist to obtain oil from these resources but they have not yet been widely exploited, because until quite recently the extraction costs – ranging from $40 to $90 per barrel – exceeded the market price. The currently high and rising prices, however, are quickly turning these methods into potentially profitable ventures.
With many companies positioning themselves to take advantage of the opportunity, we are witnessing the birth of a giant industry and one that might eventually eclipse that in crude oil. This is because the estimated global deposits of recoverable shale oil alone exceed three trillion barrels. This is more than twice the world's current crude oil reserves.
America is especially well endowed on this front as it has nearly 75% of the planet's known oil shale deposits. The Bureau of Land Management estimates that the Green River Formation of Colorado, Utah and Wyoming alone 'holds the equivalent of 800 billion barrels of recoverable oil.' This is three times the proved oil reserves of Saudi Arabia. At current consumption levels, that quantity would satisfy America's needs for 110 years.
Like shale, coal is another enormous repository of oil. Technology to liquidify it has been around since the 1920s. Germany was the first country to utilize it on a mass scale when during World War II it sought to compensate for a lack of crude. Today this technology is successfully exploited by South Africa whose three liqudification plants produce150,000 barrels a day, the equivalent of the output from a medium-sized oilfield.
The United States – with roughly 27 per cent of the world's recoverable coal – is especially well positioned to benefit from this resource. A couple of years ago, the New York Times pointed out that 'the coal in the ground in Illinois alone has more energy than all the oil in Saudi Arabia.' It is estimated that at a standard conversion rate of two barrels of synthetic fuels from one ton of coal, America's reserves are equivalent to 20 times the nation's proved crude. In other words, liquefied coal could satiate America's petrol thirst for two hundred years.
But even coal's potential is exceeded by that of tar sands which may hold as much as two thirds of the planet's petroleum. Tar sands occur in many parts of the world with large deposits in Canada, Venezuela, the United States, Russia and various countries of the Middle East. Canada alone is estimated to have some 1.7 trillion barrels of which about 10% is recoverable at today's prices and with existing technology. The country's tar sands alone make Canada second only to Saudi Arabia as an oil resource country.
Tar sands account for one million barrels (about 40%) of Canada's oil production with the number growing each year. America's largest oil supplier, Canada provides about 20% of our imports of which a substantial portion comes from this untraditional source. So vast is its potential that a CBS broadcast stated 'the reserves [of tar sands] are so vast in the province of Alberta that they will help solve America's energy needs for the next century.'
With estimated 30 billion barrels of recoverable petroleum from tar sands, America's own supplies are not negligible either. A concentrated effort to launch wide scale commercial mining was launched in the late 70s, but the subsequent drop in oil prices led to the project's abandonment. The $100 plus per barrel rate, however, is likely to change this situation in not-too-distant future.
All this should make one thing amply clear – there is enough oil to go around for a very long time. Even on conservative assumptions – accelerating consumption and few new discoveries – earth's oil supplies should last for at least a century.
This, however, is the worst case scenario. We can be reasonably certain that new exploration and advancing technologies will in coming years greatly add to the quantities of available oil. So much so that Morris Adelman, Professor Emeritus in Economics at Harvard, has argued that the 'amount of oil available to the market over the next 25 to 50 years is for all intents and purposes infinite.'
The notion that this planet is running out of oil is one of the great misnomers of our age. There is more oil available today than there was a hundred, fifty or ten years ago. And there is every indication that this trend will continue into the future. Instead of lamenting that we are running out of it, it would be far more accurate to say that we are constantly bumping into new oil. This is why two years ago the Economist headlined an article on the topic The Bottomless Beer Mug.
The general public, however, is largely ignorant of these facts. The divergence between the conventional wisdom and reality could hardly be any wider. Profoundly misinformed and alarmed, people place false hopes in misguided alternatives. Rather than implementing harmful, inefficient and expensive substitutes, we should insist that our government lift the obstacles which prevent us from availing ourselves of this superabundant resource.
Quote:
CNN) -- Gasoline prices set a record for the 16th consecutive day Wednesday. A gallon of gas cost an average of $3.62, according to AAA, and much more in some markets.
Shell Oil Co. President John Hofmeister says a boost in U.S. production would startle the world market.
All three presidential candidates have weighed in on the issue, and President Bush on Tuesday addressed it during a news conference.
John Hofmeister, president of Shell Oil Co., the U.S. division of Royal Dutch Shell, addressed rising gasoline prices during an interview Wednesday with John Roberts on CNN's "American Morning."
ROBERTS: What do you say to people who are in this budget crunch of trying to fill up the family car?
HOFMEISTER: I say we need more gas to be produced in this country. I've been saying that for three years, ever since I took this position [as president of Shell].
If the U.S. set a goal to produce 2 to 3 million barrels more a day in this country, we would send a shock around the world that would immediately say to the speculators, hey, U.S. is serious. President [Bush] said something yesterday about this. I didn't hear him, but I think that's good news. But we should set a specific target.
The presidential candidates should be out there on the postings saying let's increase domestic production by 2 to 3 million barrels a day. That would be something that would put money back into this country, jobs back into this country, and it would bring more supply toward the Americans who need it.
ROBERTS: The president is advocating more drilling on U.S. territory. Isn't it true that globally we're starting to reach a peak in production and that within maybe a decade or two oil production will begin to decrease?
HOFMEISTER: Well, I think there is some argument [that] with convenient, easy oil we will peak sometime in the next decade. I think Shell sees that coming, but in terms of total oil supply to the world, we're a long way from reaching peak oil because it doesn't take into account unconventional oil.
I think the president brings up a good point in that we could, we have the available domestic supplies off the coast of Alaska as well as [the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge]. Shell has won $2 billion worth of high bids for the Chukchi Sea -- that's a few years off before we could begin production.
But let's remember there's more than 100 billion barrels of untouched oil and gas in this country that is subject to a 30-year moratorium. Now, there's only one body in this country that can set a 30-year moratorium, and that's the U.S. government.
ROBERTS: Sen. Hillary Clinton wants to slap you with a 50 percent tax on what she calls windfall profit, profit above a certain level. Is that a good idea?
HOFMEISTER: Look at our revenues and our income for the last quarter. If we had made $7.8 million on $114 million of revenue, nobody would call that excessive, because that's 7½ percent. We made $7.8 billion profit on $114 billion revenue -- same 7½ percent. So to me that is not an excessive number when banks and pharmaceuticals and IT companies earn a whole lot more.
ROBERTS: Would it hurt you if she put in place this tax on the windfall profits?
HOFMEISTER: Sure it would. It would slow down investment. Taxing the oil companies was tried in the '80s. It drove us to do imports, which is exactly the problem we have today.
ROBERTS: Where is the top of all this? How high can the price of a barrel of oil go? How high will the cost of a gallon of gasoline go?
HOFMEISTER: I heard somebody say the other day it's as long as a piece of string. We don't know.
ROBERTS: The president of OPEC said $200 a barrel.
HOFMEISTER: Yeah, well, there are some countries out there subsidizing the cost of their energy to their consumers and industries to compete with America -- or against America -- because they think America won't solve the problem.
ROBERTS: You're saying you have no idea where the top is.
HOFMEISTER: We don't know. But we should produce more oil in this country
I believe we're rapidly reaching the point where many middle class Americans will in fact have to start changing their life styles. As gas exceeds 4 dollars a gallon it will force people to start making some very hard choices. Consider someone that must drive 500 miles a week just to get to work. 48 months ago gas prices we averaging around 2 dollars a gallon! So in about 4 years energy costs have roughly doubled for the average American driver. If you're driving 500 miles a week for work you used to spend approximately 50 dollars a week which will now be 100 a week! Lets use 48 weeks for work and this victim is now paying 4800 a year versus 2400 4 years ago. Now with 2 people working (pretty much most families now) the energy cost would increase about 5000 a year! That includes nothing for huge increases for home utilities, heat light, A/C etc! Now pile on the increased cost for almost everything else that's affected by increased energy costs and we're looking at a national disaster.
People are clearly going to run out money not just for discretionary spending but on the necessities of life. The ripple effect of this energy crises is yet to be fully felt IMO. We have a disproportionate amount of money all going towards one single commodity... ENERGY! Thanks to the environmental wacko's and gutless politicians we've simply FAILED to increase our energy supply. We stupidly squander precious resources generating electricity when we have almost limitless amounts of coal and nuclear. We can't burn enough coal because of draconian EPA regs and state and federal morons have stonewalled building more nuclear plants! So we continue to burn hundreds of millions of gallons of fuel oil and natural gas just to generate electricity! Those fuels could have been much better used to power our vehicles and heat our homes! It would have also lowered gas prices because a lot more would be available.
Unfortunately there are NO easy answers or quick fixes now. We've cleverly boxed ourselves in with the lack of developing our own natural resources. We have loons like Algore screaming about global warming while recent events suggest the *exact opposite may be happening. We've had the tail wagging the dog for the past 30 years on environmental issues which has greatly pushed us to exactly were we find ourselves. We are a society that has wanted it all and refused to compromise to help ourselves. We can drill for oil anywhere but here! We refuse to exploit our portion of the gulf of Mexico! Alaska is out of bounds according to the loony democrats! Our only answer has to become ever more dependent on foreign oil. We learned absolutely nothing from the oil lines and shortage of the 70's! Nothing at all........
The problem isn't demand it's supply! I'm convinced there are technological answers to all these problems but unfortunately we've been hog tied by the loons and our gutless politicians. The American people will start to understand better when we're all paying 4 to 6 dollars a gallon in the next 18 months. We've done NOTHING to help ourselves in all of this except more of the same. We've failed to build 1 new refinery in this country in the past 30 years! So our true refining capacity hasn't increased in over a quarter century!
Quote:
Over the last quarter-century, the number of refineries in the United States dropped to 149, less than half the number in 1981. Because companies have upgraded and expanded their aging operations, refining capacity during that time period shrank only 10 percent from its peak of 18.6 million barrels a day. At the same time, gasoline consumption has risen by 45 percent.
Why not you ask? Well once again the environmental wacko's, out of control EPA regs and gutless politicians. The whack nuts say you can build a present refinery anywhere but here! Why would the majors even consider the costly litigation required to even attempt to build a new refinery? It's almost impossible to get it done in our country now. BTW the last one built was in Placentia Bay, in southern Newfoundland!
Until the USA wakes up to our energy plight nothing will change! Perhaps 6 buck a gallon gas, 5 dollar a gal heating oil and soaring natural gas prices will actually produce some commonsense solutions. Solar, wind, hydrogen fuel cells and other renewable energy sources are wonderful alternatives! Unfortunately they are 20 years away from shifting the burden away from fossil fuel. We can continue to listen to the pie in the sky environmental wacko's or the country can get off it's collective butts and actually do something! Sadly until the American people DEMAND change in our present insane energy policies nothing is going to change........
Quote:
Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming
Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.
No more than anecdotal evidence, to be sure. But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.
A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here. The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C -- a value large enough to wipe out most of the warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year's time. For all four sources, it's the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.
Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn't itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.
Let's hope those factors stop fast. Cold is more damaging than heat. The mean temperature of the planet is about 54 degrees. Humans -- and most of the crops and animals we depend on -- prefer a temperature closer to 70.
Historically, the warm periods such as the Medieval Climate Optimum were beneficial for civilization. Corresponding cooling events such as the Little Ice Age, though, were uniformly bad news.
Quote from: "chopped"I'm retired but my wife has a 120 mi. round work trip. It's been a way of life for us for a long time. Allowed us to have city jobs and the country lifestyle we love.Because I don't believe there is a limit to how high prices will be allowed to go we were going to put the house on the market and move intown. Falling house prices have put a temp hold on that. With about 70% equity we can sell but i need to get used to the hit I'm going to take. I don't thing anyone really knows who's responsible for this but they are the most powerful people in the world and are hellbent on doing something, I'm just not sure what.
You could buy a lot of gas for the 30% hit your going to take...
Well, here I am in Worth, IL., just a little south of chicago, and it's $4.04/ gallon. :shock:
Quote from: "Bugpac"
You could buy a lot of gas for the 30% hit your going to take...
That's part of why I'm holding off. But what happens when cost creates a cash flow problem? It's one thing for America to change a lifestyle, what's going to happen when we just can't afford the gas to get the working class to work?
Well gas is in the 3.80's here in indiana.. Im a long ways from needing any for the Grand Prix yet :lol: This thing gets great mileage .. Maybe I should check it.. Ill watch prices again today. Im in anderson and heading to indy today. This was a far as i wanted to drive last night :-o .. I have seen 4.09 a gallon for regular also..
Dave :wink: :arrow:
Quote from: "chopped"Quote from: "Bugpac"
You could buy a lot of gas for the 30% hit your going to take...
That's part of why I'm holding off. But what happens when cost creates a cash flow problem? It's one thing for America to change a lifestyle, what's going to happen when we just can't afford the gas to get the working class to work?
I agree fully, with that comment about the 30% hit, you also have to have the cashflow to buy the gas...It sucks either way for all....Im thinking about buying a moped... :D
Quote from: "chopped"Quote from: "Bugpac"
You could buy a lot of gas for the 30% hit your going to take...
That's part of why I'm holding off. But what happens when cost creates a cash flow problem? It's one thing for America to change a lifestyle, what's going to happen when we just can't afford the gas to get the working class to work?
umm... maybe a "working flat" in the city ie... a cheap apt/room, till things, level out?
Well I had to fill the G/P yesterday before I left from near Salem Indiana. I ran it pretty low but the fuel light never came on and it was 54.00 at 3.89.9 a gallon and i saw it as low as 3.83.9 in indy but i questioned the car being there with the wheels on it after i payed for the fuel :lol: I still havent checked the mileage but its * good... We will see if they jack it it up more before the weekend..
Dave :wink: :arrow:
Well we're facing another price hike tomorrow and at $160/litre that makes it around $6.40/gallon.
I remember the experts saying we had a fuel crisis in the 70s and we were running out of fuel then. I wonder where those so called experts are now.
I personaly think it's one big con.
Like it was said earlier the price of food has gone up to. Well down here we have two major supermarkets who have 80% of the market. But to be fair to them they do have good ads on t.v.
Apparently the average shopping basket has gone up $100 in the last year but their heart warming people friendy ads make me fell a whole lot better not!I could go on forever but I wont. :evil:
Hi Bucketmouth. I remember the early 70,s ads also on the running out crisis. Also for our US readers ,we run imperial gallons here, 4.55 litres making a gallon. I do not know if a similar scam applies in the US. Here in OZ we have major supermarket ,COLES ,SAFEWAY chains buying/ running fuel stations, they then run a shopper docket scheme,present your cash register tape from one of their supermarkets,and you get 4c per litre discount on the fuel. Only prob is ,they load up the price of fuel in the first place ,and if you shop carefully you can save a bundle on your grocery bills. example 4cpl off a 60litre fill saves you a whopping $2.40. Well by shopping at ALDI, IGA etc,and visiting the chains for specials only,you can save anything like $20- $30 on a trolley load of goods,thus making the "fuel saving " something for the gullible........Frank.
Saw $4.18 to 4.28 tonight....
In my town when I was going to work this am, it was $3.86, and tonight it is $4.00. My GF paid $4.17 near Chicago this am, and it was $3.92 there last night.
The Holiday weekend is here, so it'll probably go higher. :roll:
odd, how AZ usually is near the top of gasoline prices.... I paid 3.58 a few days ago at Costco for regular gasoline.
diesel is still at 4.10 to 4.40 a gallon.
a fellow at work installed a 100 gallon tank in his truck bed. He buys diesel in Mexico at 2.10 a gallon
:?
Do you guys use this map to find gas prices? http://www.michigangasprices.com/price_by_county.aspx
If you zoom in far enough it will name the gas stations and show prices. Many times I've saved $.20 or more per gallon if I check prices before a trip. Our town is always higher so whenever I'm going out of town it's nice to know where the cheap gas is.
I usually buy my gas at Sam's Club here in town. Their price "adjustment" is 10AM the day after everyone else goes up. I filled up early this morning for $3.87 & 9/10's. $0.31 cheaper.
There is a theory that oil is created by the planet and is not decayed dinosaurs or bio-matter. It is called abiotic-oil. One story goes that an oil well had run it's course and was only producing 10% of it's peak output and was shut down. As the price rose the company decided to start this well again. Guess what ,the field had refilled and was back at peak production. Of couse this information was withheld from the public(us). more on this at
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2005/10/26.html
$4.159 to $4.289 on my way home ... :shock: This is getting OLD :!: :evil: I'm gonna wait to fill up on Tuesday....It will be cheaper then... :? :? :lol:
Bob... :wink:
Quote from: "mopar2dr"There is a theory that oil is created by the planet and is not decayed dinosaurs or bio-matter. It is called abiotic-oil. One story goes that an oil well had run it's course and was only producing 10% of it's peak output and was shut down. As the price rose the company decided to start this well again. Guess what ,the field had refilled and was back at peak production. Of couse this information was withheld from the public(us). more on this at
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2005/10/26.html
I have read this theory, and background on it before. It does explain why oil is found where geologically it should not be found, and why the deeper they drill, the more oil they find.
I would not be so sceptical, if the people who say we are running out of oil, or the ones that are talking global warming, did not have their own agenda.
[quote="enjenjo
I would not be so sceptical, if the people who say we are running out of oil, or the ones that are talking global warming, did not have their own agenda.[/quote]
well there's this fence you see and on one side are the oil people and on the other side are the greenies and it's in both of their interest that we have this conflict if you know what I mean. :(U) :b-d:
Up here in Canada the latest is $1.39.9 / liter for regular, so that's about $5.64 / gallon, one of our gallons. Premium is another .12 or so, so that's over $6.00 ! Most of the runs we've got planned this summer are into the northwest states cuz of this.
bought gas here in anderson indiana tuesday for 3.379.9 and in town it was 3.70.0.. needed gas yesterday it was 3.98.9 Oh well im having too much fun to worry bout it.
Dave
It just hit 3.99.9 at my local cheapo station this am for 87 octane, which is sort of strange cause Cali always seems to have the nations highest gas prices. What really upsets me is retailers raising the price of existing inventory. I've seen stations increase their prices three times in one day.
I take the 60mpg motorbike whenever possible, now if I could just figure out how to mount a small pickup bed to it............ Jbird 8)
Did all the Landscaping today...( Use the weed eater ...Small trim mower ...Garden tractor to mow & blower to clean off the deck & clippings & such.) Ran my fuel can & 2-cycle mix cans empty...Drove to get gas ....$44.00 for fuel to cut the $%%^&% Grass :!: Then I had to fill up my daily driver. :!: :evil: :evil: :evil: This is getting frustrating... :roll:
Sheep... :? SHEEP :!: :!: That's the answer :!: :!: :!: :!:
Bob... :wink:
regular gas £1.14.9, premium £1.19.9, diesel £1.25.9, all prices per litre, thats roughly $8.56, $8.94, $9.38 per US Gallon respectively.
Our government currently have plans to add 2 pence per litre to that price in October, although right now that'd be suicide (our PM is holding on by his fingernails as it is).
All the information I read is the commodity traders are pushing up prices with speculation on oil. Just depends on when the bubble bursts and if the drop in price gets passed on...
I have been giving this problem quite a bit of thought this weekend. I understand that the price of oil has been boosted by a number of things. First, the market has expanded due to India, China and other countries industrial growth. Second, the value of the dollar is down. Third, and most important is speculators running the price up. Now, the larger market created by India and China is a fact. As is the decline of the dollar. I find it hard to believe that these two factors have caused the price of oil to increase at the rate it has. The growth of these two countries has not exploded, rather, a slow, steady growth has occurred. The dollar has fallen, but not plummeted. That leaves the speculators. These individuals that seemingly have no loyalty or concern for anyone apart from their wallet, are, in my opinion the force behind the prediciment that we are in. I understand that since the real estate market went south, many of the investors have moved from real estate to oil. We can see where they are taking us now. Our homes are no longer the security that they once were. It just comes down to good old greed. If you want a good scare, check the price of gold, remembering that it is the standard of wealth. The value of gold has not increased. It just takes a lot more dollars to buy and ounce.
A pal just gassed up here in Victoria BC today - 1.519 / liter of good stuff, which is 5.889 / US gallon, and 6.839 / imperial gallon. Hell, life's short so it ain't gonna keep my coupe in the garage or cut down on road trips........just have one less Starbuck's coffee!
We had a Federal election last Nov,and change of Gov and the now incumbent Prime Minister when in opposition claimed he had all the answers for rising prices . In OZ our petrol has excise,and then the Gov also adds 10% GST calculated on the base price+excise . Hence we pay a tax on a tax. He is now looking at the GST and changing the calculation to "save us poor motorists some money". However this clown rushed out when elected and signed the "Kyoto Protocol'. So whatever saving is gained in the tax formula fiddle will now be more than made up for by a hinted "carbon tax" because he has to back up his credentials for being a "planet saver" . This bloke would have been at home in what I see in some of the Western movies ,you know. The bloke in the wagon selling all sorts of elixirs. Trying to think of the name for them ........Frank.
Quote from: "38HAULR"This bloke would have been at home in what I see in some of the Western movies ,you know. The bloke in the wagon selling all sorts of elixirs. Trying to think of the name for them ........Frank.
crook
politician
criminal
politician
thief
politician
snake oil salesman
politician
take your pick they're all similar
later jim
I paid 3.79 in Garden City today. That's .20 cheaper than my town 50 miles away.
Just hit #4.10 south of Atl. This is really starting to concern me. If someone wanted to wipe out the middle class could they find a easier way? I hate to think what people with kids are doing for groceries.
How much is your LPG or what you call propane in the US?. Do many consider running this an alternative?. This fuel is widely used in OZ .I am building a 38 Chev PU on straight LPG,and about to switch my 66 Mustang over also.......Frank.
Propane is about $2.90 a gallon here, but very hard to find a place to fuel mobile tanks.
4.09 last night for fuel.. I see the news says its gonna go higher.. they also say the national average is like 3.97 but that dont mean $hit to us that are seeing 4.09 to 4.20... We really get boned here in michigan.. Ge i got my stimulus check yesterday and too bad Bush is gonna get all the god dammed money back as i buy gas...... Nice plan for him....
Dave
New idea i think ill run to windsor and spend all my 1200 bucks there helping some young ladys thru college :lol: :lol: :lol:
Dave
You'd probably be wiser to spend it on young hookers, well of course, to you, pretty much everything is young.
On a lighter note, gas out here next to the Pacific Ocean has been going up 4-5 cents a day for the last week. Cheepo 87 octane WAS $4.35 & 9/10ths this am. Did I miss some 'global disaster' that destroyed oil production? By the end of the month I'll have at least one kidney on egay just so I can fill up the truck. Jbird 8)
I read in the paper that economic experts have said that were it not for the effect the speculators have had on the oil market, gas would be around $2.25 - $2.50 per gallon. Nice that someone's getting wealthy on our backs. I hope there is an oil market crash and these greedy bastards loose everything. Hope it depresses them to the point of suicide.
Quote from: "zzford"I hope there is an oil market crash and these greedy bastards loose everything.
Why oil prices will tank (http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/06/news/economy/tully_oil_bust.fortune/index.htm)
later jim
Quote from: "Jbird"Did I miss some 'global disaster' that destroyed oil production? Jbird 8)
"Destroyed"? No. Threatened? Yes. In a market this tight, any threat of disruption sends the price crazy. Isreal made it clear Thursday that it was prepared to kick the snot out of Iran when they unveil their nukes. That, and some "experts" believe that the commodity investors were shorting the market earlier in the week when crude prices were dropping and had to rush to cover their positions which caused a bidding frenzy that accelerated the pricing rise.
As for wishing ill on the speculators that could prove interesting for some on here. It's reported; http://www.palmbeachpost.com/business/content/business/epaper/2008/06/01/sunbiz_beckcol_0601.html that pension funds are some of the biggest players in the commodity markets today. You might say, the union boss giventh, the union boss taketh away.
We came through New York state this morning and the price was $4.19.9 at almost all stations. That is still cheaper than what we have in Ontario. At home the price is $1.39.9 per liter (4 liters to a US gallon).
Fred Drew
I still wonder how we can continue to build 40 million cars a year to keep the auto industry jobs contributing to the economy and then wonder where is all the gas going?
Each of those new cars has gotta use more gas and I don't think we're really scrapping an equal number cars each year to make up for the new users.
Seems if you keep upping demand and not drilling for new sources your gonna have some problems eventually.
Saw a show about China recently and was surprised to see China has built and is continuing to build an 'Interstate' hiway system modeled almost exactly on our own.
Seems there a whole lot of folks in China gonna be buying new cars to drive on those hiways.
Kinda like the joke that there are more folks in China who can speak english than there are here in the U.S.
All those folks are gonna continue to compete for what petroleum supplies there are in the world.
Now Shawn Tully has an idea about the current affair.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/06/news/economy/tully_oil_bust.fortune/index.htm
Not real sure I agree totally with him, but it is a thought.
Then again many in the industry don't have a real clue to what is going on.
http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Oil/idUSL0930489320080609
Anyhow, filled up 3 of my rides last week at $3.64 and this afternoon I see it's up to $3.76 here.
Interesting topic.
The gas price in France is like crafty says for England : around 1.50€ per liter, or 8.5/9$ per gallon. But the dollar is very weak at the moment, making a false comparaison.
During a trip in USA last year I was chocked to see so much very big trucks. I think a truck driver license would be necessary to drive them in France! Same with motor-homes.
Another chock is the lack of diesel engine, even in trucks. Here 70% of cars and 100% of trucks are diesel powered.
My rent car in the USA was a PT cruiser. The gas mileage was pretty bad, no more than 23 mpg. I don't know if normal or an exception.
The european equivalent car in size, for exemple a renault scenic or citroen picasso, powered by a 110HP common-rail injection turbo-diesel, with 5 or 6 speed manual transmission gets an average 45/48mpg on roads, 35to 40 mpg in town. As for most of european diesel powered cars. A toyota prius has no more gas mileage than our average car-except in town- and simply doesn't worth the extra cost. Citroen and peugeot are working in a small 3 cylinders diesel hybrid car that will do 80 mpg.
It's why we can manage our gas prices, cars built with efficiency in mind. Another factor is the much density of population. We have to travel less, and it's easier to developp good public transportation. But a lot of people (living in the countryside) have to drive a lot to go to work, these are in trouble now with the petrol prices. My job is 5 km (around 3 miles)from home, I use a bicycle most of the time for 12 years now. When the weather goes bad in winter I take the bus. It's not only because of the fuel price. It's far more practicle. Drive a car and find to park it simply a hassle. 3 miles means at least 8 red lights, one or 2 roundabouts, 4 or 6 speed bumps! And I prefer spend petrol in my V8 powered roadster on week-ends than in my 4 cylinders small french car during the week!
I know that the USA is totaly different, most of the city where built for cars, the distances are uge and public transportation-or bicycles lanes- useless. I heard on the news that you are discussing on the 4 days week.
I'm sure that your car makers will react and start to build energy efficient cars, wich is possible with the technology alreaday availlable. Less fuel consumption will lower the barrel price, and it will make less expensive to drive our hot -rods!
Gilles