The Rodding Roundtable
Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: Rayvyn on August 08, 2006, 09:41:28 AM
I noticed this rod-in-progress yesterday. Taking a look at the pics I noticed a kick-up in the back of the frame. I'm not too well versed on Redneck frame building, and I'm wondering if this is structurally sound, if this was a beginners attempt at doing this because he couldn't cut or figure correct angles, or whether it's an old school method... :?:
This is not a kosher way to create a "kick-up." To do it right, it should be "Z'd" rather than done as the photo shows.
That is an in-progress picture and I think it's a better way to determine a drop than fabricating something and just tacking it in there. If he were to cut the ends of the 2 top pieces of box tubing at an angle and box them you wouldn't be able to tell them from a "Z" and I'd trust it further from twisting and collapsing than 8 edge welds. That boxing of the ends might also be something that could be acomplished the way it sits rather than pulling the body back off the frame. I like the inovation. GPster
and I'm wondering if this is structurally sound, if this was a beginners attempt at doing this because he couldn't cut or figure correct angles, or whether it's an old school method...
No, it isn't the right way to do a kickup. It is just a quick and dirty way to get there, and also looks bad. The right way to do one is shown below.
Don
PS: I always mock them up with 2 x 4 lumber first, then you have an idea of what you need to do to get the drop you want.
In fact, here is the way I like to do them. I cut small filler strips that I rosset weld inside one part of the kickup, then when I slide the two joints together it gives me a backing so that I get a really heavy penetrating weld that is a lot stronger.
The pictures below show the sequence for this.
Don
then we weld the backer into the tubing through the two small holes. This just holds it in place until we do the final weld.
If this is a mock-up, then that is something different altogether. What are the circumstances regarding the photograph?
Once the backer it rosset welded it looks like this.......
Quote from: "Rayvyn"I noticed this rod-in-progress yesterday. Taking a look at the pics I noticed a kick-up in the back of the frame. I'm not too well versed on Redneck frame building, and I'm wondering if this is structurally sound, if this was a beginners attempt at doing this because he couldn't cut or figure correct angles, or whether it's an old school method... :?:
Ok my nickle.. If its got good welds there is no reason it wont work just fine but pretty it aint. It may have more surface area connected together than zing it. Then again it aint pretty and I wouldnt do it like that just for the pretty factor.
Dave
Quote from: "Rayvyn"I noticed this rod-in-progress yesterday. Taking a look at the pics I noticed a kick-up in the back of the frame. I'm not too well versed on Redneck frame building, and I'm wondering if this is structurally sound, if this was a beginners attempt at doing this because he couldn't cut or figure correct angles, or whether it's an old school method... :?:
I wouldnt have mounted the shocks straight up either they should be at an angle. Im supprised no one caught that. Ya I know its done like that all the time but it aint right.
Dave
After you weld two of these into both sides of the tubing, you are ready to slip the one inside the other..............
Now the joint can be deep welded, giving you a very strong joint.
And finally all done.
Quote from: "N8DC"Quote from: "Rayvyn"I noticed this rod-in-progress yesterday. Taking a look at the pics I noticed a kick-up in the back of the frame. I'm not too well versed on Redneck frame building, and I'm wondering if this is structurally sound, if this was a beginners attempt at doing this because he couldn't cut or figure correct angles, or whether it's an old school method... :?:
I wouldnt have mounted the shocks straight up either they should be at an angle. Im supprised no one caught that. Ya I know its done like that all the time but it aint right.
Dave
what else would you do when the springs are on the outside?
they're not helper springs.....
Don, Thanks for the pictures and description on ZZZing. Very simple and effective.
Quote from: "rumrumm"If this is a mock-up, then that is something different altogether. What are the circumstances regarding the photograph?
I don't believe it's a mock-up. From what I can tell it's a finished deal. Here's the car in question. He's also welded the body to the frame. The motor is strictly for reference and measurement.
Quote from: "Rayvyn"Quote from: "rumrumm"If this is a mock-up, then that is something different altogether. What are the circumstances regarding the photograph?
I don't believe it's a mock-up. From what I can tell it's a finished deal. Here's the car in question. He's also welded the body to the frame. The motor is strictly for reference and measurement.
Ah your lookin on egay..I checked that out too and when i read he welded the body to the frame that was enuff for me.........
Dave
Quote from: "tomslik"Quote from: "N8DC"Quote from: "Rayvyn"I noticed this rod-in-progress yesterday. Taking a look at the pics I noticed a kick-up in the back of the frame. I'm not too well versed on Redneck frame building, and I'm wondering if this is structurally sound, if this was a beginners attempt at doing this because he couldn't cut or figure correct angles, or whether it's an old school method... :?:
I wouldnt have mounted the shocks straight up either they should be at an angle. Im supprised no one caught that. Ya I know its done like that all the time but it aint right.
Dave
what else would you do when the springs are on the outside?
they're not helper springs.....
Ya lost me there? The only time coil overs are usually mounted straight up is on a pro street car where the rear end is really narrow and they cant get any angle on em. Most all the other guys including me mount em on an angle pointing in towards the top. I cant remember the thoery behind it but its supposed to be the proper way to do it. Of course ive been wrong before and ill admit to it .............
Dave
That's how i did the front kickup on my "40 Pick up. I stacked the lower frame rail, another section of the same tubing, and the top frame rail on each other and tacked them in place. Of course I had cut them all at a 45* angle and I made plates of 1/4' stock, bent to cover the open ends and lap onto the rails a few inches, for both top and bottom. I had my brother, the structural steel welder come over and fill in the sides where the tubing edges round over with a couple passes and weld all the way around the plates i made for top and bottom. I asked if he thought it would bestrong enough; he smiled and said "That's the strongest part of the frame now" I attached a pic, you can see the kickup under the front of the cab, right ahead of the exhaust going under the cab. It only took a little grinding and a finger smear of putty to make it look like one piece.
Quote from: "N8DC"I checked that out too and when i read he welded the body to the frame that was enuff for me.........
Dave
My guess is, he dropped the motor in so he could weld up the mounts, then shoved the body forward, allowing an inch for clearance, then welded the body fast.
I don't see any crossbars for attaching a floor either.
The top of the rear radius rods look flush with the top of the frame, so any floor would have to be built up above that, I figure at least 2", to allow for rod travel.
About the only good the rumble seat area would be for is a gas tank and battery.
Even though it's missing the floor, the body doesn't look too shabby. Unless the stock crossbars for the floor were rotted out, which means the lower portion of the body might be shot, but you can't tell from the pics.
Buyer beware... :!:
I certainly wouldn't want to impune another rodder's work, and I'm glad it worked out well for you on your truck, but I have to stand by my original feeling that doing it that way just isn't the proper method. Yes, it is a means to an end, and yes it will probably never be a problem, but I can guarantee you that no pro shop would ever build or modify a frame using that stacked system. Even if you plated the entire outside of the pieces of tubing with flat plate, it still wouldn't look or be as good as a simple kick up.
I know it it a little more work to get the proper angles worked out, but the reason you see Total Performance, Speedway, and everyother frame done this way is because it is the only truly correct method.
Please forgive me if my comments go contrary to your feelings, but I also realize a lot of beginning rodders frequent this site, and they need to know the absolutely best ways to build cars. We are seeing a lot of very questionable construction coming from the rat rod movement, ( and I am one who likes rat rods) but some of the things being done are just downright dangerous, and contrary to proper construction methods.
JMO.
Don
Quote from: "donsrods"I certainly wouldn't want to impune another rodder's work, and I'm glad it worked out well for you on your truck, but I have to stand by my original feeling that doing it that way just isn't the proper method. Yes, it is a means to an end, and yes it will probably never be a problem, but I can guarantee you that no pro shop would ever build or modify a frame using that stacked system. Even if you plated the entire outside of the pieces of tubing with flat plate, it still wouldn't look or be as good as a simple kick up.
I know it it a little more work to get the proper angles worked out, but the reason you see Total Performance, Speedway, and everyother frame done this way is because it is the only truly correct method.
Please forgive me if my comments go contrary to your feelings, but I also realize a lot of beginning rodders frequent this site, and they need to know the absolutely best ways to build cars. We are seeing a lot of very questionable construction coming from the rat rod movement, ( and I am one who likes rat rods) but some of the things being done are just downright dangerous, and contrary to proper construction methods.
JMO.
Don
PS: Yes, the springs should be mounted on an angle to act as sway controlers, and also look at his motor mounts. I blew up the picture. They are simply a single round piece of tubing welded solid at the top and sort of bushed at the bottom. I feel one small tube is not enough to hold an engines torque and vibrations.
Quote from: "N8DC"Quote from: "tomslik"Quote from: "N8DC"Quote from: "Rayvyn"I noticed this rod-in-progress yesterday. Taking a look at the pics I noticed a kick-up in the back of the frame. I'm not too well versed on Redneck frame building, and I'm wondering if this is structurally sound, if this was a beginners attempt at doing this because he couldn't cut or figure correct angles, or whether it's an old school method... :?:
I wouldnt have mounted the shocks straight up either they should be at an angle. Im supprised no one caught that. Ya I know its done like that all the time but it aint right.
Dave
what else would you do when the springs are on the outside?
they're not helper springs.....
Ya lost me there? The only time coil overs are usually mounted straight up is on a pro street car where the rear end is really narrow and they cant get any angle on em. Most all the other guys including me mount em on an angle pointing in towards the top. I cant remember the thoery behind it but its supposed to be the proper way to do it. Of course ive been wrong before and ill admit to it .............
Dave
ok, take a good look at the shock/spring arrangement.
they're NOT coilovers, just a shock thru the middle of a coil spring.
usta see t-buckets like that ALL the time...
ok, so i'm *' blind, they ARE coilovers and yer right, they would function better at an angle BUT!,soften the shocks and run an anti-roll bar (sway bar)....
Quote from: "donsrods"Quote from: "donsrods"I certainly wouldn't want to impune another rodder's work, and I'm glad it worked out well for you on your truck, but I have to stand by my original feeling that doing it that way just isn't the proper method. Yes, it is a means to an end, and yes it will probably never be a problem, but I can guarantee you that no pro shop would ever build or modify a frame using that stacked system. Even if you plated the entire outside of the pieces of tubing with flat plate, it still wouldn't look or be as good as a simple kick up.
I know it it a little more work to get the proper angles worked out, but the reason you see Total Performance, Speedway, and everyother frame done this way is because it is the only truly correct method.
Please forgive me if my comments go contrary to your feelings, but I also realize a lot of beginning rodders frequent this site, and they need to know the absolutely best ways to build cars. We are seeing a lot of very questionable construction coming from the rat rod movement, ( and I am one who likes rat rods) but some of the things being done are just downright dangerous, and contrary to proper construction methods.
JMO.
Don
PS: Yes, the springs should be mounted on an angle to act as sway controlers, and also look at his motor mounts. I blew up the picture. They are simply a single round piece of tubing welded solid at the top and sort of bushed at the bottom. I feel one small tube is not enough to hold an engines torque and vibrations.
ever look under a chevelle?
how about ANYTHING OEM with coil springs?
can't say as i've ever seen a coil spring at much of an angle and i can tell ya for a FACT a chevelle's ain't...
what he's got (as far as rear suspesion) will work.
it's NOT going canyon racing for * sure...
Quote from: "donsrods"I certainly wouldn't want to impune another rodder's work, and I'm glad it worked out well for you on your truck, but I have to stand by my original feeling that doing it that way just isn't the proper method. Yes, it is a means to an end, and yes it will probably never be a problem, but I can guarantee you that no pro shop would ever build or modify a frame using that stacked system. Even if you plated the entire outside of the pieces of tubing with flat plate, it still wouldn't look or be as good as a simple kick up.
I know it it a little more work to get the proper angles worked out, but the reason you see Total Performance, Speedway, and everyother frame done this way is because it is the only truly correct method.
Please forgive me if my comments go contrary to your feelings, but I also realize a lot of beginning rodders frequent this site, and they need to know the absolutely best ways to build cars. We are seeing a lot of very questionable construction coming from the rat rod movement, ( and I am one who likes rat rods) but some of the things being done are just downright dangerous, and contrary to proper construction methods.
JMO.
Don
No offence taken, everyone has their opinions and ideas on how to do things. I have always thought that for nearly everything there is more thatn one way to do it correctly. It is actually no more work to get the proper angles to butt weld the tubing together, 22.5 degrees for each piece, as it is to make the 45's on the full tubes. I understand that the pros, making many copies of the same frame would simply build a jig and cut stock to put in the jig and weld away. I did use the butt welded method on the rear kickup, and even plated on the sides I feel it is not as strong as the front kickup. I had to use the butt weld method on the rear due to the height of the kickup, 13" and the fact that it had to be a 90 degree angle to clear the cab and bed. I have attached an simple drawing of my method of stacking and welding the tubing. It is 7 gauge, (3/16".) tubing. Due to the fact that the tubing has rounded edges it makes a perfect "bevel" to weld in. We did a triple pass on these areas, a wide root weld and one filler weld on each side of the root. the finish weld was thicker than the original tubing wall even when ground smooth with the tubing sides. The tubing was welded along both sides and across each end, that were beveled back to allow the weld to remain after the tube ends were ground to allow the re-enforce ment plate to lie flush with the tube ends.the plates were then welded entirely around their perimeters, again taking advantage of the rounded edge of the tubing to allow the weld to remain after grinding. I feel that if the simple butt joints are adequate, which i believe they are, then what I did was overkill. I think it's also important to teach young rodders how to do things correctly, even if it's not the way the "Big" guys do it. It's just as important for them to think things through and find a solution that works as well or better than the "accepted" methods.
Looks very solid to me.
Per
What you think about this "C-framing bolt on kit" that many low rider guy uses :?:
Per
I guessin' you didn't find anything to spend the taxpayers dollars on in L'ville :lol:
there is a company not too awful far from you that sells fiberglass "replicars" for as little as $129.00 per month. :shock:
so why wait, get started now building your dream car :-o
like you said Bry, let the buyer beware :!:
Vance
Quote from: "EMSjunkie"I guessin' you didn't find anything to spend the taxpayers dollars on in L'ville :lol:
there is a company not too awful far from you that sells fiberglass "replicars" for as little as $129.00 per month. :shock:
so why wait, get started now building your dream car :-o
like you said Bry, let the buyer beware :!:
Vance
Ya know sometimes I cant believe your still alive Vance :lol: :lol:
Sprint car races tomorrow and saturday buddy...
Eat your heart out.........
Dave
Quote from: "N8DC"Quote from: "EMSjunkie"I guessin' you didn't find anything to spend the taxpayers dollars on in L'ville :lol:
there is a company not too awful far from you that sells fiberglass "replicars" for as little as $129.00 per month. :shock:
so why wait, get started now building your dream car :-o
like you said Bry, let the buyer beware :!:
Vance
Ya know sometimes I cant believe your still alive Vance :lol: :lol:
Sprint car races tomorrow and saturday buddy...
Eat your heart out.........
Dave
Me too Dave, me too. :shock:
I figger I can outrun him in a short sprint :P
have fun at the races, take some pictures, will ya!
did you ever get your Alliance tag mounted?
Vance
Quote from: "EMSjunkie"Quote from: "N8DC"Quote from: "EMSjunkie"I guessin' you didn't find anything to spend the taxpayers dollars on in L'ville :lol:
there is a company not too awful far from you that sells fiberglass "replicars" for as little as $129.00 per month. :shock:
so why wait, get started now building your dream car :-o
like you said Bry, let the buyer beware :!:
Vance
Ya know sometimes I cant believe your still alive Vance :lol: :lol:
Sprint car races tomorrow and saturday buddy...
Eat your heart out.........
Dave
Me too Dave, me too. :shock:
I figger I can outrun him in a short sprint :P
have fun at the races, take some pictures, will ya!
did you ever get your Alliance tag mounted?
Vance
That was one of the lost posts Vance. Have you checked the hamb lately for the mounting options :?: Someone beat me to it 8)
Ill try and have fun at the races. tomorrow is dirt saturday is 3/8 mile pavement.
Dave
ps: the fun stops monday ..............
as a matter of fact I did!!
them boys from Kansas are a lively bunch :D
of course, I was born and raised in Kansas 8)
I just figgered as much money as Bryan has laying about, surley he would have found something in L'ville. 8) :wink:
guess hes holding out for Barrett-Jackson to come back to Florida. :roll:
Vance
Quote from: "EMSjunkie"as a matter of fact I did!!
them boys from Kansas are a lively bunch :D
of course, I was born and raised in Kansas 8)
I just figgered as much money as Bryan has laying about, surley he would have found something in L'ville. 8) :wink:
guess hes holding out for Barrett-Jackson to come back to Florida. :roll:
Vance
well if he is comming up for kzoo again he needs to shack up with me and sue till labor day and we can go to auburn indiana for the big auction car corral and get him a car. Rates are fairly cheap at my place . (less than 200 a night) and sue is a hell of a cook. We got some nice cars up here and they arent all rednecked out or anything like you would find in florida :P
Dave
Quote from: "N8DC"
We got some nice cars up here and they arent all rednecked out or anything like you would find in florida :P
Dave
Prolly waaaay too nice for the likes of him :lol:
I saw that kit Speedway has, where you can take a VW bug and add a straight front axle with hair-pins, that might be right up his alley. :shock:
Vance
Quote from: "EMSjunkie"Quote from: "N8DC"
We got some nice cars up here and they arent all rednecked out or anything like you would find in florida :P
Dave
Prolly waaaay too nice for the likes of him :lol:
I saw that kit Speedway has, where you can take a VW bug and add a straight front axle with hair-pins, that might be right up his alley. :shock:
Vance
Ya know i really like them. chopp the top wire wheels thats some cool stuff and it gets good milage
Dave :D :D :D
can you see his big 'ole head sticking outta the top of a chopped VW. :shock:
actually, I like them too, looks killer, and the possibilities are endless. 8)
Vance
Quote from: "EMSjunkie"Quote from: "N8DC"
We got some nice cars up here and they arent all rednecked out or anything like you would find in florida :P
Dave
Prolly waaaay too nice for the likes of him :lol:
I saw that kit Speedway has, where you can take a VW bug and add a straight front axle with hair-pins, that might be right up his alley. :shock:
Vance
Ya'll just gotta put more gas on the fire, doncha... :?: :D
I can feel the love way down here... :cry:
Barrett-Jackson? Over inflated egos demanding over inflated prices...even at the Ft. Lauderdale show... :roll:
3 cars I was looking at in Loovul; 2 were sold from the time I left the park on Saturday and when I went back Sunday morning, and the other one wasn't where he said he'd be that morning. And i'm not paying off someone's mortgage by buying their car. I saw one truck up there that was selling for 125,000.00. Talk about sticker shock... :!: :!:
My problem is, I have the shop space and tools to build a car but work too * much, and thanks to my old man I'm a tightwad when it comes to shelling out big dollars for something other than a house... :arrow:
200.00 per night to stay in Michigan...? :shock:
I only paid 50.00 per night in Loovul. It better be a * good car show... :lol:
BTW-when is KZoo...?
Another BTW-Vance can't run from the LazyBoy to the fridge without needing oxygen, so I'm not worried about a short sprint. .. :D
I hear your favorite band is "Weezer".
Watch your mailbox bunky...And open it really careful like...(hehehe)
And since our sprint offerings are limited down here, we go to the other dirt track races; the Mexs and Gautys running through the fields trying to outrun the I.C.E. guys. Put on a green Polo shirt and pull up in a white Crown Vic and watch-em-go...!! :D
Quote from: "EMSjunkie"can you see his big 'ole head sticking outta the top of a chopped VW. :shock: 8)
Vance
At least people have seen my big `ole head sticking up in a car.
The only part of your head anyone ever sees is the back.......... :arrow:
going up and down... :shock: :oops: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Gotta run... :lol: :lol: :lol: :0-0
Quote from: "tomslik"
ever look under a chevelle?
how about ANYTHING OEM with coil springs?
can't say as i've ever seen a coil spring at much of an angle and i can tell ya for a FACT a chevelle's ain't...
what he's got (as far as rear suspesion) will work.
it's NOT going canyon racing for * sure...
the chevelle coils are straight up & down. The shocks are angled.
The chevelle suspension is a trianglated 4 bar set up.
Does this matter when compared to the suspension in the photos?
Does this matter when compared to the suspension in the photos?
Good question, I think it does. Everything I have ever seen or read on the subject of coil overs seems to say they should be mounted at some angle, like 20 or 30 degrees, to allow them to function on the street as anti-sway limiters. Drag cars mount them straight up and down because drag cars only go in a straight line. It is the same reason we mount our hot rod shocks on an angle, as they limit lateral movement as well as straight up and down movement.
It is just one of those things that you do, you don't exactly know all the specific reasons, you just know it is the best way to mount them. Will it work straight up and down? Probably, buy maybe just not as well.
Look at any article or even catalogs like Speedway, and they lean them all in a little bit to get this benefit.
JMO,
Don
Quote from: "Crosley"Quote from: "tomslik"
ever look under a chevelle?
how about ANYTHING OEM with coil springs?
can't say as i've ever seen a coil spring at much of an angle and i can tell ya for a FACT a chevelle's ain't...
what he's got (as far as rear suspesion) will work.
it's NOT going canyon racing for * sure...
the chevelle coils are straight up & down. The shocks are angled.
The chevelle suspension is a trianglated 4 bar set up.
Does this matter when compared to the suspension in the photos?
Glad we got this back on topic! The springs and the coilovers are 2 different animals. I think the reason for the coilovers being mounted on an angle is because its a shock with a spring and shocks work better and they control the car better when they are on an angle. Don is prolly right on the
degree of angle I cant remember!
Dave
Quote from: "N8DC"Quote from: "Crosley"Quote from: "tomslik"
ever look under a chevelle?
how about ANYTHING OEM with coil springs?
can't say as i've ever seen a coil spring at much of an angle and i can tell ya for a FACT a chevelle's ain't...
what he's got (as far as rear suspesion) will work.
it's NOT going canyon racing for * sure...
the chevelle coils are straight up & down. The shocks are angled.
The chevelle suspension is a trianglated 4 bar set up.
Does this matter when compared to the suspension in the photos?
Glad we got this back on topic! The springs and the coilovers are 2 different animals. I think the reason for the coilovers being mounted on an angle is because its a shock with a spring and shocks work better and they control the car better when they are on an angle. Don is prolly right on the
degree of angle I cant remember!
Dave
maybe don's right BUT take a look under the rear of a 67-69 camaro,shocks are * near straight up and down.
and the leaf springs ain't angled;)
funny thing is, if ya think you have too stiff of a shock, lay 'em down more...
ya know, i'm surprised bob paulin hasn't chimed in on this....
his opinion is worth more than mine (at least i trust it)
Quote from: "N8DC"
Glad we got this back on topic! Dave
Sorry Dave. :oops: :cry:
Didn't mean to get off-topic, just wanted to get my shots in at Raayvn
while I could. :lol:
Vance
Quote from: "N8DC"
Glad we got this back on topic! The springs and the coilovers are 2 different animals. I think the reason for the coilovers being mounted on an angle is because its a shock with a spring and shocks work better and they control the car better when they are on an angle. Don is prolly right on the
degree of angle I cant remember!
Dave
Just an observation here, as I am not expertly skilled in suspension geometry and applications.
If the shocks were mounted at an angle of say 20-30*, it would seem like this would make for a stiffer ride when hitting bumps and potholes, due to the travel of the shock being different than that of one mounted straight up and down. It would definitely add to the sway stiffness, cutting down on lateral rear frame movement. However, being that the shocks are mounted inboard at the top, would that mean that there's more roll to the side when taking a sharp turn, due to more of the body weight being outside of the shocks top mounting location?
If the shocks are mounted straight up and down, and used in tangent with a sway bar mounted from the rear end housing to the frame, I can see where this would offer a little softer ride in the individual corners, but would allow for further lateral sway movement when weight is shifted above the shocks when rounding a corner. It would cut down on downward roll in the corners when taking a turn perhaps?
Thinking this over with the help of a few crude drawings, It seems to make sense to me that the shocks would be most beneficial if mounted at half the angle between the rear being parallel and inert, and fully compressed. If the maximum travel of the rear on one side is (with no frame movement), let's say 20* above level, then I'm thinking the most beneficial angle for the top of the shock would be 10* inward towards center. This seems to split the difference between a stiffer and softer compression (ride), and a stiff or loose lateral sway.
Of course then again I may be totally wrong, as I haven't figured in the angle of the rear dropping down in the case of a pothole. I think a rear would return to a correct level and centered position easier if the shock were straight up and down, but yet when a rear corner drops on a straight shock setup, the lower mount becomes the inward one, creating an outward direction of travel to return to a 90* position. It almost appears that when the top of the shock is mounted inwards (let's say 10*), and the rear drops, the lower end of the shock moves slightly inward, momentarily creating a straight shock setup until upward travel begins.
Now that I've confused everyone, any and all arguments and opinions are welcomed and appreciated. After all, I'm just a layman throwing a few coals on the fire.
Quote from: "EMSjunkie"Quote from: "N8DC"
Glad we got this back on topic! Dave
Sorry Dave. :oops: :cry:
Didn't mean to get off-topic, just wanted to get my shots in at Raayvn
while I could. :lol:
Vance
Im just as guilty as you are :oops: :oops:
But now we have turned him into a some kind of mad scientest ?? We even have him trying to draw stuff :?:
Dave
Quote from: "N8DC"Quote from: "EMSjunkie"Quote from: "N8DC"
Glad we got this back on topic! Dave
Sorry Dave. :oops: :cry:
Didn't mean to get off-topic, just wanted to get my shots in at Raayvn
while I could. :lol:
Vance
Im just as guilty as you are :oops: :oops:
But now we have turned him into a some kind of mad scientest ?? We even have him trying to draw stuff :?:
Dave
I can see it now.........hunkered over a drafting table, one bright light shining on the paper, sweat beads forming on his brow........... :lol:
I was looking at Speedways website, I thought I saw in their catalog a mounting "tech tip" about the mounting angle. if I remember correctly, the more the shock is angled, the less effective it is.
I do remember on my sprinter, the shocks were mounted straight up, something about unsprung weight and rebound effectiveness.
Now hes got me confused :!: :shock:
Vance
Quote from: "EMSjunkie"Quote from: "N8DC"Quote from: "EMSjunkie"Quote from: "N8DC"
Glad we got this back on topic! Dave
Sorry Dave. :oops: :cry:
Didn't mean to get off-topic, just wanted to get my shots in at Raayvn
while I could. :lol:
Vance
Im just as guilty as you are :oops: :oops:
But now we have turned him into a some kind of mad scientest ?? We even have him trying to draw stuff :?:
Dave
I can see it now.........hunkered over a drafting table, one bright light shining on the paper, sweat beads forming on his brow........... :lol:
I was looking at Speedways website, I thought I saw in their catalog a mounting "tech tip" about the mounting angle. if I remember correctly, the more the shock is angled, the less effective it is.
I do remember on my sprinter, the shocks were mounted straight up, something about unsprung weight and rebound effectiveness.
Now hes got me confused :!: :shock:
Vance
The unsprung weight thing comes when you mount em upsode down i assume on the sprinter they were.
What are you gonna do next week when i go back to work.
:?:
Dave
Quote from: "N8DC"Quote from: "EMSjunkie"Quote from: "N8DC"Quote from: "EMSjunkie"Quote from: "N8DC"
Glad we got this back on topic! Dave
Sorry Dave. :oops: :cry:
Didn't mean to get off-topic, just wanted to get my shots in at Raayvn
while I could. :lol:
Vance
Im just as guilty as you are :oops: :oops:
But now we have turned him into a some kind of mad scientest ?? We even have him trying to draw stuff :?:
Dave
I can see it now.........hunkered over a drafting table, one bright light shining on the paper, sweat beads forming on his brow........... :lol:
I was looking at Speedways website, I thought I saw in their catalog a mounting "tech tip" about the mounting angle. if I remember correctly, the more the shock is angled, the less effective it is.
I do remember on my sprinter, the shocks were mounted straight up, something about unsprung weight and rebound effectiveness.
Now hes got me confused :!: :shock:
Vance
The unsprung weight thing comes when you mount em upsode down i assume on the sprinter they were.
What are you gonna do next week when i go back to work.
:?:
Dave
You are absolutely right Dave, they were mounted upside down.
I'm gonna miss ya Dave :cry:
hope you are on the road to long fun-filled life.
are you looking forward to returning to work?
I bet Sue is ready for you to go back :shock:
take it eazy, don't try to do too much too fast.
Don't make the boys in the big truck with flashy lights come and get you :lol:
Vance
Quote from: "N8DC"Quote from: "EMSjunkie"Quote from: "N8DC"Quote from: "EMSjunkie"Quote from: "N8DC"
Glad we got this back on topic! Dave
Sorry Dave. :oops: :cry:
Didn't mean to get off-topic, just wanted to get my shots in at Raayvn
while I could. :lol:
Vance
Im just as guilty as you are :oops: :oops:
But now we have turned him into a some kind of mad scientest ?? We even have him trying to draw stuff :?:
Dave
I can see it now.........hunkered over a drafting table, one bright light shining on the paper, sweat beads forming on his brow........... :lol:
I was looking at Speedways website, I thought I saw in their catalog a mounting "tech tip" about the mounting angle. if I remember correctly, the more the shock is angled, the less effective it is.
I do remember on my sprinter, the shocks were mounted straight up, something about unsprung weight and rebound effectiveness.
Now hes got me confused :!: :shock:
Vance
The unsprung weight thing comes when you mount em upsode down i assume on the sprinter they were.
What are you gonna do next week when i go back to work.
:?:
Dave
I'm about as scientific with drawings as a seeing eye dog using an Etch-a-Sketch after consuming a bucket of coffee... :idea: :lol:
BTW-don't sprinters have W links in the rear?
He'll be lonely next week, that's for sure. He went broke paying people to talk to him. I hear the poison control center put him on hold when he called... :lol: :lol: :lol:
I guess going back to work will give me sumpin to do till i can figure out a plan to retire :?: You prolly dont know but sue is ready for me to go back to work but we work at the same place so she sees me all day long anyway :lol: :lol: . Its not a case of getting me out of the house and away from her 8) 8)
I just talked to her a litle while ago and she told me forget the honey do's she had for me to do and try enjoying the rest of my time off. Well im gonna supprise her..
Later ......
got work to do fore i leave for the races...........
Dave
We used to run "bird cages" and "jacobs ladders" when I had mine.
don't really unnerstand what they did :? but I know it had sumpthin' to do with keeping the rear end located in the frame.
I remember my pit crew getting * when I'd "scrub" the wall with the right rear. 8) :lol:
something to do with knocking the alingnment outta whack :roll:
Vance
Quote from: "EMSjunkie"We used to run "bird cages" and "jacobs ladders" when I had mine.
don't really unnerstand what they did :? but I know it had sumpthin' to do with keeping the rear end located in the frame.
I remember my pit crew getting * when I'd "scrub" the wall with the right rear. 8) :lol:
something to do with knocking the alingnment outta whack :roll:
Vance
The bird cage is what held the axle bearing and the 4 bars to the rear axle.
Since its an open tube axle although we had an old solid axle one time you need a way to hold the rearend in the car thats where the bird cages come in. The jacobs ladder is just a high fullootin panhard rod system. Ive seen em used on street rods but dunno how they work or even if they do.
Ive had lot of sperience with sprint cars and sometime more than i care to talk about :lol: Being the head wrench and only wrench gets old in a hurry. Id do it again though with the right team with the right money. I learned injection and all about in out boxes and how to rebuild a quick change in one summer.
Dave
I know what happens when you touch rear wheels :!: :shock:
somebody is fixin' to get upside down :x
I drove one for 2 seasons in the mid 90's
cast iron 360, normally aspirated, track rules stated you had to have a working electric starter. :roll:
was about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on 8)
my bro-in-law was my "crew chief" he had raced "super modifieds" back in the early and mid 70's.
was quite a learning curve from driving a street-stock.
had to learn how to steer it with the gas pedal :?
suspension wasn't quite as "forgiving" as the street-stock. :lol:
Vance
Love the sprinters, they're absolutely wild. the Knoxville Nationals are in progress here this week, big, big event. A few of the teams stay about 4 blocks from my house, sometimes we see them working on the cars in the parking lot.
On the subject of shocks it is true that they are less effective as they lean over. Put another way, 1" of wheel travel becomes less than 1" of shock travel. Modern race cars nearly always have the shocks standing straight up, unless it's something special like a bellcrank suspension on an Indy car.
Quote from: "jaybee"Love the sprinters, they're absolutely wild. the Knoxville Nationals are in progress here this week, big, big event. A few of the teams stay about 4 blocks from my house, sometimes we see them working on the cars in the parking lot.
.
I would give certain appendages to go to the Nats. :-o
I'm a big Sammy Swindell fan. 8)
Danny Woods used to run here in Amarillo a few years back, got to
put a slide job on him a time or two :shock:
post some pictures if ya can, I need a "winged wonder" fix :wink:
Vance
Quote from: "EMSjunkie"Quote from: "jaybee"Love the sprinters, they're absolutely wild. the Knoxville Nationals are in progress here this week, big, big event. A few of the teams stay about 4 blocks from my house, sometimes we see them working on the cars in the parking lot.
.
I would give certain appendages to go to the Nats. :-o
I'm a big Sammy Swindell fan. 8)
Danny Woods used to run here in Amarillo a few years back, got to
put a slide job on him a time or two :shock:
post some pictures if ya can, I need a "winged wonder" fix :wink:
Vance
No way! Sammy has been my hero for years. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hope you got the pics and videos even though the videos were done with my digital . By the way they had a guy tow all the way from texas and he is going back to ohio this weekend to race and he had a guy crew chiefing by the name of Rick Ferkel :!:
Dave
ps: ill take the camera saturday and get some good action shots on the 3/8 pavement..
Heres one for ya...... Track on the side of a hill... Too bad I didnt get the ones on thier wing shots ! :lol: :lol:
Dave
Quote from: "N8DC"Heres one for ya...... Track on the side of a hill... Too bad I didnt get the ones on thier wing shots ! :lol: :lol:
Dave
Looks like about a 3/16th miler. Ya think the fans sit far enough away?
I've never driven in a race, but had the occasion to take a 360 on a few hot laps on an empty track here in Fla., and kicked up some dirt in Bridgeport, NJ driving a modified one afternoon.
I did take a ride with Jack Hewitt in his 2 seater 410 car down here during a winternationals show a few years ago. I won a raffle on the last drawing on the last night, and ended up spending the rest of the night in the pits with him and his wife. I ended up meeting Lasoski and Tony Stewart, Joey Soldana, Billy Wilburn, Swindell's kid (can't remember the name)and a bunch of others.The last I heard, Hewitt wasn't doing too well health wise, and one of his sons had taken a nasty spill in the car, so they quit running it.
I love Sammys quiet style. he doesn't really say a whole lot, but you can tell by the intensity on his face.
I raced street stock for about 6 years. GM metric body, sbc, 350/glide
really limited by the class rules.
a buddy's buddy had a jenkins rolling chassis, complete with spare parts, for sale really cheap. 8)
shoulda stuck with the street stock. :lol:
Thanks for the pictures and video Dave, I appreciate it
Vance
Sitting that far back has its advantages. Less dirt! We got hammered at butler 2 weeks at the WOO show. The funny thing about this little fairgrounds track is the drivers come cause its fun! They really enjoy running here.
Dave
ps:Vance i hope them pics and stuff got thru i see they were returned and maybe they were too big for your server.
Quote from: "N8DC"Sitting that far back has its advantages. Less dirt! We got hammered at butler 2 weeks at the WOO show. The funny thing about this little fairgrounds track is the drivers come cause its fun! They really enjoy running here.
Dave
ps:Vance i hope them pics and stuff got thru i see they were returned and maybe they were too big for your server.
He's in Amarillo. They have 1 phone line there. Did you send it to BR549?... :lol: :lol:
* party lines :x :x
dunno what happened Dave, guess the Sprint Gods are not smiling on me :cry:
I love those little "bull rings" they can be a blast to run on, especially when you get about 25-30 cars out for a feature race 8)
" he didn't bump you, he didn't nudge you....he rubbed you....and rubbin' son, is racin' "
Vance
[quote * party lines :x :x
dunno what happened Dave, guess the Sprint Gods are not smiling on me :cry:
I love those little "bull rings" they can be a blast to run on, especially when you get about 25-30 cars out for a feature race 8)
" he didn't bump you, he didn't nudge you....he rubbed you....and rubbin' son, is racin' "
Vance[/quote]
Is amarillo anywhere near koffman? Spelling? I got a cousin that lives there that ive been trying to contact but cant seem to find her....... Oh well
i gotta run . going to the company picnic that i never go to but im gonna warn em ill be back monday
:twisted: :twisted: :b-d: Then a little car show in my old hometown then off to the races............ :-}
Dave
I'm not sure about Koffman, I have heard of it, but I don't know exactly where it is :?
hafta look in my "book" :lol:
Vance
good to see we are still on topic
Quote from: "Crosley"good to see we are still on topic
:lol: :lol: :lol:
We don't need no stinkin' topic
Vance
Quote from: "EMSjunkie"We don't need no stinkin' topic
Vance
you are correct.
the suspension discussion was doing well
I thought we resolved that problem along time ago........ :?
put 'em where ya need 'em :!:
as long as they are fairly straight up and down :lol:
did I miss sumpthin'..........again :?
Vance