The Rodding Roundtable
Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: jeffa on February 21, 2006, 04:04:29 AM
I know I may be at risk of offending some (all?) of my American brothers, but some of this will strike a cord..
Yeah, I know: What does Jeffa know...
I am watching the Boyd Coddington Show, formerly known as American Hot Rod on Fox.
They (Boyd) discovered that a mate of his had a Model "T" coupe for sale. They decided to go and have a look. They bought it. And decided to Rod it.
What's wrong with that? Well, this car was one of a kind. They DROVE it onto the trailer! It was PERFECT! Paint and all, even the horn worked. I've seen current street cars more worn than this was...
I can't, for the life of me, understand why one would "Rod" it.
Boyd said "We will probably use the body: it's so perfect, and throw away the rest"!. I will repeat: they DROVE it onto (and off) the trailer. Well, Boyd TRIED to drive it off the trailer. Couldn't work out how to make it go backwards.. As anyone does when faced with something they don't understand, he ridiculed it... This car was a lot older than Boyd, AND in a lot better condition.
Why not sell the thing to someone who appreciates what it IS and build a repro Rod. He is good at that.
As I am writing this, I am hearing: 'Lets rip the interior out of this..."
I really don't want to watch, but maybe there IS something "right" about that which they do... Can anyone explain?
More: as I am listening, they are saying that this car had NO rust. No bog, nothing. Even the nickel was perfect.
I am no "restorer", but why destroy something so original, AND functional, for the sake of a show? He makes a Rod out of it. No big deal, he is starting with a PERFRECT car. It's not very hard....
If it was rusted and banged-up beyond recognition, I would understand: He is recreatging something that once lived, into something that will live again. But this WAS living.
For some people the more you tell them they are "King" the more they believe they are. It probably gets real confusing with the television rating gods (in small letters) are telling him what to do. I looked at all these programs as a salvation but it never happened. I wish one of they rod/restoation colleges had classes on the "tube" so I could learn how to do something rather than spend money. GPster
I guess If you can afford it, it pays to start out with the best, but I've never understood what Boyd does either. That was one of several cars he did on that show, where he seem to make it a point to start with a car that should have been left alone.
I don't have a big problem with starting with a restored car, no matter how nice it is, because it is no longer original after it has been restored. but I do believe nice original cars should be preserved.
Then too, some of these cars Boyd does are built to order, on bodies the owner supplies, the T may have been one of them. It makes it more interesting TV to cut up a nice car. The drama is what sells.
Hello;
Yes, it's all about the all mighty dollar!!! Boyd makes money by doing what he does! Lots of money! So, it stands to reason that this is not viewed as an auto that should be in a museum for people to look at, It needs to make Boyd and his Crew a paycheck! Simply put "money talks, Bull$$$$ walks!
It should be a crime to do this sort of thing but it isn't so thats why this happens!
Bruce
I am definitely not defending Boyd....I don't care for or watch his show at all but I am guilty of starting with the nicest,most complete car I can get my hands on.....I have done my fair share of * off the local restorers! I have a great deal of respect for the fellows who can take an old hunk of $h*t and turn it into a rose.I don't possess the skills needed to accomplish this myself and have found that I am farther ahead $$ wise to start with a nice old restored car rather than spend the $$ at the body shop.I also believe I end up with a better finished project.The joy in owning an old car for me is driving it.....That said,if my options were driving a stock T or riding a horse.....I'd opt for the horse! :P
Unfortunately this is the open checkbook end of the equation "what do you have more of, money or time." When you have a bunch of money to pour into a project it only makes sense to start with the best available project. When you're paying by the hour it can actually cost less money to start with something nicer, although I'd think that wouldn't have as much application when things are heavily modified. Too bad there aren't more with a pile of money AND patience.
(Daryle, I noticed you snuck a reply in while I was typing. That comment obviously isn't directed at you, I have in mind they type who spend 6 figures on a car so they can brag about who built it for them.)
I take it you haven't seen this series of shows yet. If you think throwing away so much of a nice car is bad, wait till you see Boyd's interpretation of a traditional car. He's a one-trick-pony and just doesn't understand why you wouldn't smooth everything out and load up on the latest doodads.
I'm no big fan of Boyd either, but sometimes ranking on him seems irrational. We're rodders for pete's sake, we're supposed to tick off restorers/preservers of stock stuff............read the manual! :)
There are lots of stock, preserved Model T's in the world that are going to be preserved for posterity, it's THE most common car of the era. And any of us that have been doing this for a few years have probably done something similar. Now that I think about it that might be a regional thing too. Growing up as a teen in SoCal during the '60's most of what we started with was like this. I suppose the guys back east didn't start with as nice raw material. The folks newer to the hobby have had less to choose from so might see it differently. But back then we took a lot of gas from restorers for "ruining" good old cars. Like I said, it's what we're supposed to do.
The notion of starting with the best car you can find usually makes sense in both a time and money scenario. Having built a '36 roadster body from pieces unique to the roadster, portions of a 5 window coupe, and lots of pieces from EMS and *', I know about time and money sunk. I'd have really been better off with a cherry/near cherry body if I were sane.
Now, if somone were to do the same thing to a pristine, original '25 Doble then I might swing to the other side of the discussion, but not for a Model T.
I'd like to see Boyd hand crank one of those Ts,to try and start it.
The thing on starting with the best you can is valid. Sometimes, the finished version is much better than the starter version. A friend of mine bought a restored Model A coupe. Really nice car, he has driven it twice and won't drive it again. His comment, you can't stop it after you finally get it moving. I understand the restorers wanting to see the restored car, but none of them stepped up to buy this car, just want him to keep it stock. I would imagine that over the next few years, if he does not sell it, we will make a rod of some kind out of it. At least it will get driven, and that is why Henry built them in the first place.
Doug
I agree with you all in principle. It's better to start with a good, straight rust free body etc, but here in Oz, cars like the one Boyd destroyed are not very common, particularly in the condition it was. Also, my point is this: Boyd could go out and buy a much better body, build a rod (the body was all he needed, the rest was "thrown away") and build a rod which to all intents and purposes, would be seen as the same thing. Why waste a perfectly good running Model "T", when he could just as easily have bought new?
Yes, I know: rating$$$.
I'm drawing to the close of having an old Ford truck go through the body and paint process at a very reasonably priced local body shop. I'm paying time and materials and doing all the grunt work myself, the sand blasting, scraping, de-crudding, etc (it was rusty from the rear wheel wells back to the rear doors and patch panels had to be hand fabricated and welded in, plus other areas that needed work). I now have more in it than I could have gone out and bought a finished, rodded truck for and I still have to put it back together, have interior done and who knows what else that I haven't thought of yet. I would have been far better off money-wise to buy either a finished truck or more specifically a cherry original and updated the drive train. So I am now a believer in buy the best you can afford and you will save large bucks in the long run, especially in my case where I don't pretend to be a bodyman and want it done right. Take a nice original and cut it up for a hot rod - you betcha. I always remember the quote from the article on the building of Cadzilla before that perfect Caddy body was dissected, "Your Torch Or Mine."
Lee
It might be easier to understand if you think of the show as a cartoon, as thats what it is.
Sorry Jeffa, but I think you're at he wrong website.
I am not a restorer, I am a hot rodder, so I wish I could afford a cherry car to start with. I would be so much further along than if I started with a rust bucket.
I also think a hot rodded car is so much more useful. I would drive the T you cite everyday if it had a modern engine and drivetrain. If it was stock I wouldn't drive it around the block. They were horrible cars to drive.
That being said, I only had one car in my life I didn't have the heart to cut up and make a rod out of. It was a '38 Chevy 4 door that was better than new. I bought it from a boat dealer who had taken it in on trade, and he just wanted his money out of it. It was perfect, and I drove it once, for about 3 blocks, brought it home, and sold it. It was too nice to hot rod, and yet it was a terrible car to drive. Noisy, slow, and ill handling. A small block and modern suspension would have made it right, but I just couldn't cut this one up. The guy I sold it to kept it original.
Let me find a mint Model T today, though, and the top would be chopped in about the first week, and the fenders would be on EBAY.
To reply; I am no restorer either (or the Essex I am rodding would be running by now....) I firmly believe in 100+ years of technology, and I am always on the lookout for ways of improving almost anything, not just cars. All the cars I have owned have been modified in some way, either because the way they did it in 1955 or 1970 or 1930 has been improved upon since, or because I could justify "improving" it because when they designed it, they have to make allowances for varying driving environments, styles etc. Whereas I know how I am going to drive it, I know if I have upped the compression I will only drive it on Super fuel, or if I hear pinging I will back off a bit until I can adjust it further. And so on.
I would be first to go from installing an alternator to juice brakes, right on to chopping/channelling etc to update it and to make it a safer, cooler ride. But that's not what I am talking about. There is something about the car that they chopped up; It was as if it was 1927. The TV show, showed the interior and other parts of the car and it was as if it hadn't been disturbed since 1927, sort of in a time warp. Not "restored" but original.
I saw the show too. I think the car was turned into a piece of junk with the stupid looking rear quarter windows etc. But it's only a T. There's hundreds of them that are already restored and sitting somewhere absolutely useless to anyone other than some guy that like to stare at his old tin. "It was too nice to hot rod" no such thing in my book. I had a mint original deuce three window a few years ago that was NOT nice to cut, but I thought too valuable as it was. I sold it to a restorer, now I'm kicking myself in the butt for not chopping it when I had the chance.
Quote from: "40"I am definitely not defending Boyd....I don't care for or watch his show at all but I am guilty of starting with the nicest,most complete car I can get my hands on.....I have done my fair share of * off the local restorers! I have a great deal of respect for the fellows who can take an old hunk of $h*t and turn it into a rose.I don't possess the skills needed to accomplish this myself and have found that I am farther ahead $$ wise to start with a nice old restored car rather than spend the $$ at the body shop.I also believe I end up with a better finished project.The joy in owning an old car for me is driving it.....That said,if my options were driving a stock T or riding a horse.....I'd opt for the horse! :P
You took the words right off my keyboard. Buy the best car you can find and afford. It will cost you less money in the long run. Sell the parts you don't use to someone else. When I did the 30 Pontiac. Sold parts on e-bay. Got a e-mail cussing me for street rodding it. told me there was only about 8 in the world left. E-mailed him back and said " good 7 more to street rod" you can guess what his reply was!!!!!!!!
I've gotten death threats from Packard owners that couldn't see cutting up a Packard. I guess they don't like my take on the original saying " Ask the man who owns one", I say " Ask the man who cut one up" :lol:
Uncle Bob said:
We're rodders for pete's sake, we're supposed to tick off restorers/preservers of stock stuff............read the manual!
That's funny. That's REAL funny. I don't care who you are, that's funny.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
The only time I got really PO'd at a car getting cut up was when Jesse James dropped that 10,000 lb weight on that pristine Anglia on Monster Garage. That was the end of Jesse James for me. What pure waste that was.
Don
Quote from: "donsrods"Uncle Bob said:
We're rodders for pete's sake, we're supposed to tick off restorers/preservers of stock stuff............read the manual!
Restorers rebuild them the way they were and hotrodders build them like they should have been.
I'm a bit like Jeffa that car was to good to pull down, something a little less pristine would have sufficed.
Boyd could have used something that really needed saving from the scrap heap after all it's a build off between Boyd and Bluebear. And did you see what Bluebear had to work with.
I don't know how far in front you guys are with the series but here in Oz we're only getting the 3rd episode of the build off. What about you guys?
"I don't know how far in front you guys are with the series but here in Oz we're only getting the 3rd episode of the build off. What about you guys?"
That was on the air many weeks ago here. In fact I don't think that was the last build in the most recent series and I haven't seen a new one in quite some time. Not sure if there will be new ones or not, IMO the whole thing needs to be retooled.
Edit: Just went to the Discovery Channel web site, supposedly there are new episodes starting 3/13.