The Rodding Roundtable
Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: sirstude on January 19, 2006, 09:21:10 AM
I have been watching the B-J auction the last couple of nights, and it is the usual insanity. The Amphcar last night for 115K was just nuts! A very knowledgable Chevy guy and I were talking about it yesterday and he commented on the Vettes in the catalog. There are about 100 and seems like most are 1967 435 hp 427 that are black with red. The bad thing about Chevys before 1973, is the vin does not really tell anything and they seem to be a lot of high option cars out there. There are also 3 or 4 LS6 Chevelle converts, and he questioned them also, as did I. Seems funny that out of about 13 made, that many are for sale a one auction. The hosts made a big deal of how B-J "checks out the VIN's and verifies everything" and then issues their own paperwork.
Doug
Looks like another record year! It amazes me how some of those buyers seem to be more concerned about getting their mug on TV than over paying for the car they are bidding on.....and.....It probably doesn't hurt having that cute little gal practically giving them a body massage :lol:
I also agree with you on questioning the authenticity of many of those cars....as you say,on those earlier cars it's pretty much what you make it. Oh well....Not much else to do on a cold January night :roll:
Just another made for T.V. reality show. I tried watching cause of the cars, but it has no connection to the real world. :roll:
Speed doesn't run the show for 10 years now for any other reason than it's an absolute ratings hit!! The real reality is car guys like to watch it, even months later in reruns. Sure, some of you think it's a joke and show no interest, but their ratings say you're in the minority.
As for the wild prices, that's why auctions exist. Bid fever is a powerful opiate. Probably the best example was last year's champ, the Olds concept car. The story is well known now, but at the time only a few knew that the seller had a target price in mind of $750k. Thanks to the "insanity" of bidders competeing to prove their manhood he scores $3mil, less sales costs of course. :wink:
The high number of cars with supposed rare options is probably a two way street. It's likely some of them are undisclosed fakes. On the other hand, if you owned a legitimate one of these kinds of cars and were looking to sell it for the absolute top dollar, where else would you take it? Agree with it or not, B-J has earned it's way to the top of the auction world heap.
I don't watch it in it's entireity, but when I do tune in I try to keep it in mind that it's somewhat insightful as to what's rising in popularity and what's falling or stagnating. One good observation from the announcers, though I suspect they got heavy input from the B-J folks, was the charting of how the menu of cars has changed in the past 10 years. A major shift from the traditional classics to muscle, modified, rods, bikes, and mid-century "unusual".
Like many who post on the auction I have issues, albeit mild ones, with the announcing staff. For a while there a few years back, Speed hadn't kept up with the changing inventory. They had way too many of the "tweed coat experts" there. Finally this year they got rid of de Cadenet who may really know his European classics, but was/is totally clueless about rods and muscle. Mike Joy was the best informed and most accurate, and yes, it would be unfair of me to expect him to know everything. But with 5 guys calling the show, at least one of them should have some knowledge to fill in for the others at any given point.
Lots of nits to pick, but the two that struck me last night as being a bit beyond normal. The Outlaw bodied Chev rod that was referred to as "The Outlaw" as it pulled off the ramp shows that the anouncers shouldn't try to interpret their notes. The other was the several times Keith Martin (the last holdover of the tea and crumpets "experts") ridiculously credited Craig Jackson with "creating" the restomod trend.
All in all it's still pretty entertaining if you just want to sit back and enjoy a couple hours of fantasy collection.
It is wonderful car entertainment in Jan, and yes I agree lots are over-priced BUT there were some bargins as well. Me, Roadstar and Beatnik watched it together last nite and Roadstar (who builds high end streetrods) made the comment that some of those couldn't be built for those prices.
I also agree that the announcers have gotten better over the years. Much more enjoyable now that I'm not screaming at the TV correcting them. :lol:
I'm looking forward to a relaxing in my PJ's, cuddled under a blanket watching the endless hours of the BJ Auction this weekend.
I tuned in again last night.It is quite a show.....If you've never been there in person....It's something you should consider.....If not for the cars,just to watch the people! I agree with Rudy's comment that many of those rods could not be built for what they were selling for.Is it just me or does it seem the auctioneers aren't working the cars quite as hard as they did before the auction became totally "No Reserve?" Denise....Sounds like all you're missing is a big bowl of "Moose Tracks" ice cream!!
Me thinks the 36 Ford custom was one of the better buys last night. You sure could not have built it for the price. The bikes don't seem to be getting the prices you would think, that Jaffee bike with trailer last night for 70K was probably 50K less than it sold for. Still would be fun to be there to watch though. I am starting to recognize some of the buyers after they get a couple of cars. It would be fun to know where the money is coming from, museums etc.
Doug
I suspect a lot of them didn't have to work for their money. :!:
Quote from: "sirstude"It would be fun to know where the money is coming from, museums etc.
Well I can't speak for "alot" of them BUT I do have three friends that attend evey year, purchase the creditials to bid, and buy cars. All three of them are business owners who have worked hard all their life to get where thy are today. Steve owns a number of Hallmark stores and is an avid car collector who drives whichever he wishes no matter the cost. Yes I have seen him cruzn around town in his real ACCobra. My other buddy Paul owns a Tool and Die Manufacturing company and always comes back from BJ with a new toy. The third guy, Bill who is also a good friend of Roadstars, own a very large landscaping company and heads to AZ every year to see whats offered and buy what suits his fancy.
Al three guys are very nice and extremely hardworking. Some people buy houses as investments, some invest in the stock market, some buy cars, and still some invest in their business. The smart ones are diversified and do alittle of each. I only wish I had the money to be able to purchase a high dollar car without blinking an eye. I give these guys credit for working their way to the top so they can use their money however they see fit.
and I agree with Daryle, the BJ Auction is a great place to check out in person. I went there in person in 2001 and had a great time. There actually was cars there in my price range in the back corner, they just weren't going thru the auction during the televised portion.
My experience is similar to Denise's. I've got about a dozen buddies there, only one of them was smart enough to choose parents that provided him with a trust account at birth. And surprisingly even he treats his inherited money like he earned it.
Most of these guys earned their money by taking risks, building businesses, working their butts off, and are now of an age and earnings position to "spoil" themselves with toys. Seven of them don't even have a college degree. They must have learned how to earn their money on the street. More power to 'em.
Quote from: "40"Denise....Sounds like all you're missing is a big bowl of "Moose Tracks" ice cream!!
I've been missing "Moose Tracks" for quite a while now. It's starting to show. By summertime you might not even recoginize me. :lol:
Good for you! Just don't let the lack of ice cream spoil your "sweet" disposition :P At one point this last Fall,I had lost 65 lbs....unfortunately,in about 100th the time it took to lose it,I've gained 50 back :roll: When the weather gets cold,the arthritis in my back and knees is really starting to effect my mobility so I tend to be less active,get bored and eat! Glad I saved my fat pants :shock:
I don't mean the money comes from "Unnamed Sources", I am more interested in how many of the bidders are agents for other sources. Like last year, the guy that bought the Olds for all the money, was representing someone else that is setting up some kind of auto museum.
Doug
I think that there were some real bargains there yesterday. The muscle cars were crazy, but there was a nice Auburn that went for a decent price, a 56 Tbird that went for way less than you could restore it for, and a Rolls that went for peanuts. And a brand new Panoz went for $50,000 under the sticker price.
The one that I didn't understand, there were two yellow Lincoln Continental convertibles, same year, one sold for 100,000 restored, and the other for 50,000 original. Both looked very nice, but I don't understand why the original car wasn't valued higher, since you can't restore a car to "Original". You can make it look original, but it's not "original".
I mean, if it was art, and you had a second copy of the Mona Lisa, but it had been trashed, even if Roadstar repainted it just like Leonardo, it wouldn't be the same, as good as Roadstar is. :lol:
I think the buyers have changed in the last few years, because they auction what people want, and they don't seem to want classic cars any more. I just don't understand the muscle car values, there are way too many of them out there, for the prices they get at auction.
Frank, I believe it's just shifting demographics. The market is shrinking for the older, conventional classics. The folks that are fond of the '64-'71/2 muscle cars is big (all those boomers) and they're at the point in life where they're in their max earning years and many have emptied the nest so have more disposable income. Even tlhough there are, relatively, a lot of cars from that era, there are also a LOT of buyers. Good ol' supply and demand still works.
B-J in January isn't a particularly good place to flog your street rod or custom. They invariably sell for well under their creation costs. I don't know that you're likely to find a more favorable forum elsewhere, however, but the rods and customs seem to falter when stacked up against the current market darlings -- Corvettes, Camaros, and ChryCo musclecars of often dubious provenance.
No matter, it's a fun way to spend some Winter hours, fantisizing using other folks' dollars! :D
Mike
Don't forget most of the purchases at Barrett-Jackson are " I want" purchases.... hence more money for a restored car over original.
The guy wanting an original was not in the crowd that night or had little money perhaps.
I spent several years attending the B-J auction as a mechanic and a seller a few times.
When you can get past looking at the cars and start watching the people on the bidding platform it is very interesting. IF you are actually on the platform the energy level is very intense.
Craig Jackson made an interesting anology about the current high dollar sales on muscle cars and street rods..... he said these cars are the what the Duesenberg, Packard , Cord cars were to the older buyers of the auctions years ago.
8)
For what it's worth,years ago I worked in a machine shop and we made 427 Corvette blocks and sold them to a guy building 427-tri-power cars. We would use 396 or 427 blocks and had molds made of individual casting #'s and epoxy them on a block ,sometimes changing the date code. Drill and tap a hole above the oil filter for the oil cooler line and machine them, spray with chebby orange and they went in as original tri powers.
Thats why I don't trust a lot of this original stuff.
Rumor had it that the guy in the Ferrari hat that bought the 3 million $ Olds last year was the guy that started the Discovery Channel. May be true maybe not. If so the 3 mill. probably didn't hurt him much.
The guys are better this year but still put out a lot of bogus info. About an hour ago a Hot Rod went thru and the guy said when he saw the Jag IRS with a quick change back on it that it was a rare two speed rear end.
Go figure.
I was amazed during an interview with Craig Jackson and his manager when they said they had selected the cars for the auction out of some 6,700 or so applications! The auction today actually had some cars go thru that,while way out of my budget,seemed to be fairly priced by todays standards.I missed the streamliner going for $4 mill.....did it go to the same museum as last years $3 mill concept car? I understand that bus was 1 0f 12....wonder if the guys that own the others are scrambling to get them ready for next year :roll: I also heard the same museum bought the Pontiac concept for $2 mill+ also? He must have hired another agent....I didn't see that dufus with the Farrari attire anywhere this year!
I also heard the same museum bought the Pontiac concept for $2 mill+ also?
I saw it sell but cant remember who won the bidding.
He must have hired another agent....I didn't see that dufus with the Farrari attire anywhere this year![/quote]
He was there had his arm in a sling :?: He acted bout the same as last year.
It was a long weekend for us here after dads passing and i didnt get to watch near as much as i wanted to. Well im sure they will rerun it.
Dave
Daryle,
I had an accident in the shop a week ago last Saturday which kept me out of the shop this past weekend, so I got to see a lot of the auction. Ferrari hat guy was there, but he was getting out of the bidding on a number of cars. The GM Streamliner and the Pontiac Bonneville special went to the same museum in Chandler Az. I thought the 1.15 Mill for the Ray Allan LS6 Convert was just nuts. I got a kick out of the guy that bought it though. There he was, drink in one hand, a brunette perched on his knee, and spending stupid money. He also bought the "Elvis Linc limo".
I started thinking about all the big buck muscle that went across the block. I went to the "how many are real" thing as well. But a thought crossed my mind viewing all of this. Does anyone else think there may be some profit taking going on this year. IF all those people wanted to get rid of their muscle cars, why? They just get tired of them or are they worried that the bottom is going to fall out of the market. The guys that bought 1 or 2 years ago bought at a substantially lower price than those that were purchased this year. I guess it was something that made me go HUMMMMM.
And I agree with Roadstar that some of the street rods just simply couldn't be built for what they were sold for. How about "Loaded"? I think it went for low 100's. I'd bet you couldn't buy the parts for that. I saw a glimpse of the owner as the car sold and he didn't look happy about it at all.
Wayne
I caught part of the Sunday show, the first time I've ever watched. Agreed that some of the prices were hot & cold, but that's an auction for you. I enjoyed it but wouldn't make a special effort to watch.
Did anyone else sit straight up in their chair when they rolled the Packard stretch limo across the platform cam? There was a lot of surface rust underneath but what really caught my eye was the frame splice. I backed up the Tivo and froze it just to be sure. Could be just my eyes but what I thought I saw was ugly, bubble gum welding that didn't go all the way to the edge of the butt welded C channel and no boxing plates or fish plating of any kind. That's OK, it only went for $250,000!