The Rodding Roundtable
Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: av8 on January 08, 2006, 04:24:51 AM
As some of you here know, I've been involved with a couple of record-setting flathead-powered LSR racecars for the past 10 years plus. Our speeds haven't occasioned world-wide attention, nor have they earned anyone a red hat, but they've been very respectable in flathead circles.
My part in most of this has been in the shop, early in the motor programs, porting and modifying the blocks and shaping and lightening the crankshafts. It's all essential work for running record speeds, but it's not nearly as satisfying or glamorous as being hands-on with the project all the way to the record run, and certainly not even close to being as neat as being the person in the driver's seat.
I can't afford to build a racecar like either of the two with which I've been associated – the XF/BFCC "Salt 'N Peppers" Rambler or the XF/BFMR "Tardel-McKenzie" roadster. But I think I can afford to build a competitive racer for the XF/PP class – Ford-Mercury flathead/Production Pickup.
I'm starting with a decent frame and some very nice sheet metal from a '53 F-100. I'm going to run abbreviated 3-4 leaf spring packs under the axles, front and rear, which will drop the truck 7-8 inches and place the bottom edge of the front bumper about 3 inches from the racing surface. Other than getting the truck right down on the salt to keep air out from under it, there's not much that can be done in terms of aerodynamics.
The motor will be based on one of the 8Bas I bought from a fellow on the HAMB several years ago. I'm going to bore it to 3-5/16 inches and fit it with a set of Ross forged pistons. I have a Mercury 4-inch crank that I've carving and polishing, plus a set of resized/rebushed 8BA rods from my Canuk pal Digger Dave. I zeroed these beauties on the Shadow-Graph and have parked them inside my house ever since. A Dave Tatom center main cap will help stiffen the bottom end, and align boring will tidy up the disparate pieces..
Because this motor is mine, I get to try out some ideas I've developed in my head while doing porting and crankshaft work for other folks. Sensible 4-bbl carburetion is planned for the intake side, and we're going with something not quite so traditional for the exhaust which shows great promise -- anti-reversion cones. More on that at a future date.
Chassis work begins in early February in Kent Fuller's shop in Rancho Cordova, and the engine build will commence in March at Tardel's. I'd be carving on my own crank right now but I've got some paid work to do first so I can afford to go racing.
Enjenjo helped me through some gray areas in my planning yesterday, and I'm sure to have even more questions for which someone here will doubtless have an answer. It's going to be a busy year between now and August, but it should keep me out of mischief!
Mike
Good luck Mike. If you need any more, just let us know, and we'll see what we can do to help.
I'll be watching..... 8)
Hey that is great Mike. It is fun working on your own car :D . I wish you the best of luck and if I can do anything just ask.
My lakester is looking doubtful for August, but I'm working on it almost every day, so we will see. I'll be there though one way or another.
c ya, Sum
This is good news Mike. I wish all of us who visit on the net could pit close to each other. It would be fun to be close and we might be able to help each other some.
I encourage all of you to have a look at what Sumner has been up to.
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bonneville-Index.html
Quote from: "1FATGMC"Hey that is great Mike. It is fun working on your own car :D . I wish you the best of luck and if I can do anything just ask.
My lakester is looking doubtful for August, but I'm working on it almost every day, so we will see. I'll be there though one way or another.
c ya, Sum
Thanks, Sum. Just took another look at the latest work on your site this morning, and by comparison I'm doing what SamIYam describes (positively) as taking a stock pickup and putting a hopped-up flathead in it. :D
Your 'liner is looking great!. Are you saving all the wood mockup pieces? Might be fun to assemble them into a facsimile of the finished car once it's done and on the Salt. :D
Mike
What are you using for a trans?
Quote from: "enjenjo"What are you using for a trans?
Looks like it will be a Ford all-synchro 3.03 with an old Hurst Indy shifter at this point. The wide ratios shouldn't be a problem, and it's small and mechanically efficient.
I'd considedred a T5 at first but then recalled the Tremec OD four-speed in 'Salt 'N Peppers," which worked great in third (1:1) but was too tall in fourth. Also, direct drive is more mechanically efficient than overdrive. The three-speed got the nod because it has the fewest moving pieces of the bunch.
Ok, that makes sense. I just wondered, you didn't mention it in the post, and I remember some time back you asking about the T5.
Quote from: "enjenjo"Ok, that makes sense. I just wondered, you didn't mention it in the post, and I remember some time back you asking about the T5.
The T5 in my '48 F-1 daily driver works great and returns about 20-plus mpg when driven at '65. Of course, I usually push it 75-plus and pay the price as the fuel mileage drops to 16-18 mpg. I opted for a Mustang WC T5 with a 0.68:1 OD which is a tad tall on long grades given the somewhat tired state my old Merc stocker is in right now. I'll be building a fresh motor for it after Speed Week and that tall fifth gear will be just about right..
FWIW, the T5 is a godsend to flathead buffs. The old L-heads love 'em! :D
What's Kent up to with his car ?
Any progress ?
Good luck with your truck.
Quote from: "av8"Your 'liner is looking great!. Are you saving all the wood mockup pieces? Might be fun to assemble them into a facsimile of the finished car once it's done and on the Salt. :D
Mike
Well as you can see from my other post they are history. I have them, but they are in a pile and I don't know if I could put Humpty Dumpty back together again :D .
I think John has a great idea that the RRT guys/gals should try and pit next to each other. It would be fun :!: :!: .
c ya, Sum
Quote from: "1FATGMC". . . I think John has a great idea that the RRT guys/gals should try and pit next to each other. It would be fun :!: :!: .
c ya, Sum
Sounds good! It looks like I'll be joining the Sidewinders club so I can run for a record and points during Speed Week as well as during the regular season at El Mirage. I'm not sure if they require club members to pit together; I don't think so from what I've gathered from friends in the club. So, an RRT "compound" would be fun.
Mike
It sounds like a great project Mike. I've allways loved old trucks and the ones you have are some of my favorites. My medical situation is progressing well and I just hope I can get a room for Speedweek. I got out of the hospital and called all of the hotels with no luck. I hope the usual cancellations occur as we get closer to August.
Don.
Quote from: "av8"Quote from: "1FATGMC". . . I think John has a great idea that the RRT guys/gals should try and pit next to each other. It would be fun :!: :!: .
c ya, Sum
Sounds good! It looks like I'll be joining the Sidewinders club so I can run for a record and points during Speed Week as well as during the regular season at El Mirage. I'm not sure if they require club members to pit together; I don't think so from what I've gathered from friends in the club. So, an RRT "compound" would be fun.
Mike
Are these the Glendale Sidewinders? If so, you're probably aware that they have a history. What with Xydias, Batchelor, Don Waite and Randy Shinn among others, having been members.
I stop and think about it though, you're not in So-Cal so I'm probably way off.
Quote from: "OFOF"It sounds like a great project Mike. I've allways loved old trucks and the ones you have are some of my favorites. My medical situation is progressing well and I just hope I can get a room for Speedweek. I got out of the hospital and called all of the hotels with no luck. I hope the usual cancellations occur as we get closer to August.
Don.
i believe i will have an extra bed if you need it. you'll have to slum it at the motel 6 tho. if you need it i'll have a pit vehicle for your use also.
see you in aug
jim
Are these the Glendale Sidewinders? If so, you're probably aware that they have a history. What with Xydias, Batchelor, Don Waite and Randy Shinn among others, having been members.
I stop and think about it though, you're not in So-Cal so I'm probably way off.[/quote]
Same club. You don't have to be geographically "friendly" to join a club. It does help to be close to El Mirage when it's time for your duty but I suppose special dispensation is possible. As far as pitting with your club goes, I'm a "MILER" and I crew on some "Eliminators" cars. Wayno
Quote from: "OFOF"My medical situation is progressing well and I just hope I can get a room for Speedweek. I got out of the hospital and called all of the hotels with no luck. I hope the usual cancellations occur as we get closer to August.
Don.
Great news Don :D :D :D . Stay in touch. I'd offer you a place in the teardrop, but it isn't long enough :cry:. If you and Jim room together I would suggest a room on the ground floor that has Terra Firma under it :D .
c ya, Sum
Don,
Good to hear about your medical going the right way. Check with BobK, and if worst comes to worst, I have a room with just a couple of us in it so far, also at the 6. You are welcome to bunk with us.
Doug
Don -- Good to read your report! I'd offer you a bed but we're planning on staying at the KOA in a pal's large travel trailer and appear to be "booked" solid at this point. I'll save you a spot near the front of the line at the Bean Bandits taco feed. :D
Pardon the brain fade on the club affiliation thing. I don't need it for Bonneville but do for El Mirage, which I plan to run in '07. XF/PP and XF/MP are both open records there at this point but SCTA requires minimum speeds of 105 and 110 mph respectively. This project could keep me busy for several years!
Mike
Thanks Jim, don't give that bed away unless you contact me first. The Motel 6 would be great. I'm still looking for something where Mickey and I can stay together and I don't have to sleep with him :oops:
How is the sedan running in the cool weather you are enjoying?
Don.
Quote from: "OFOF"Thanks Jim, don't give that bed away unless you contact me first. The Motel 6 would be great. I'm still looking for something where Mickey and I can stay together and I don't have to sleep with him :oops:
How is the sedan running in the cool weather you are enjoying?
Don.
mickey is small he can sleep in the tub :shock:
the sedan is running great in this cooler weather. :D
later jim
My racetruck program might go into parked mode for Speed Week '06, but it's for a very good reason; Kent Fuller's flathead streamliner project is back on track!
Rather than waiting for the high-zoot blown fuel motor, Vern Tardel is going to put together an unblown 276-cid gas motor that will permit Fuller to run fast enough to sort the 'liner without worrying about tuning.
Fuller will move the front and rear exhaust outlets outward to the ends of the block next week and I'll port it when he's done. Vern will take the handoff and assemble the motor, dipping into his considerable inventory of racemotor hardware which includes the very-lightweight crank that Ed Binggeli carved and polished for "Salt 'N Peppers" in 1993. Fuller has already built tuned headers that fit inside the 'liner's hull, and accommodate the relocated outlets.
With Fuller's 'liner back on track, I think I can hold off until '07. 8)
Mike
We'd love to see some pics of Fullers 'Liner Mike.
Quote from: "unklian"We'd love to see some pics of Fullers 'Liner Mike.
I don't have any recent pictures of the 'liner but will be taking some next week. Here it is when it was first rolled out into the sunlight at Tardel's about four years ago.
(http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL64/2013751/8729691/128327292.jpg)
Upside down on the rotisserie in Fuller's shop, two years ago. It still has the single 'chute tube. Fuller has since reworked the rear of the hull to fit two 'chute tubes as the rules now require. Previously the two 'chutes were arranged in tandem in a single tube.
(http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL64/2013751/8729691/128327298.jpg)
This rendering of the 'liner is of the first configuration, with the blown motor. Fuller designed and built a front-drive for the blower to keep the hull as "clean" as possible.
(http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL64/2013751/8729691/128327305.jpg)
I'll be shooting more pictures next week to get back into documenting the build now that it's active again.
Mike
Quote from: "av8"
(http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL64/2013751/8729691/128327305.jpg)
Mike that rendering is beautiful. Are you going to run Blown Fuel and go after the 302 mph Flatfire record? I guess that is the reason for needing 2 chutes.
I have one stupid question, where exactly does the driver sit :?: :?: .
Let's see more pictures and if you guys don't have a site to put them on I'd put them on my site and create a section for you like I have done for a couple others ( HERE (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bonneville-Index.html) ).
c ya, Sum
Quote from: "1FATGMC"Quote from: "av8"
(http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL64/2013751/8729691/128327305.jpg)
Mike that rendering is beautiful. Are you going to run Blown Fuel and go after the 302 mph Flatfire record? I guess that is the reason for needing 2 chutes.
Yes, Fuller did build the car for the ultimate flathead record. In XF/BFS it will run with a 296-cid 8BA with a crank-mounted Whipple supercharger, initally on alcohol. Nitro will be added if needed, but Fuller is confident the car will run over 300 mph on alcohol. BTW, Fuller and Ron Main are in the same SCTA club, Sidewinders, and Fuller and * Landy are old and close pals. Neither Ron nor * have any involvement in Fuller's 'liner, however. :D
QuoteI have one stupid question, where exactly does the driver sit :?: :?: .
The driver doesn't sit, he lies down in a supine position and looks up into a periscope and sights down the channel between the front wheel housings. The elongated keystone panel aft of the wheel housings is the hatch which is hinged at the front. A rule change written after the build was underway dictates increased peripheral view, so Fuller will be adding flush view ports.
QuoteLet's see more pictures and if you guys don't have a site to put them on I'd put them on my site and create a section for you like I have done for a couple others ( HERE (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bonneville-Index.html) ).
c ya, Sum
Thanks, Sum. I'll talk to Fuller about your offer. I know he'd eventually like to have a site, but it's beyond our ken at this point and it would be nice to have a place to send interested parties.
More pictures soon.
Mike
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bonnevillepictures/02-bv-34.jpg)
QuoteThe driver doesn't sit, he lies down in a supine position and looks up into a periscope and sights down the channel between the front wheel housings. The elongated keystone panel aft of the wheel housings is the hatch which is hinged at the front. A rule change written after the build was underway dictates increased peripheral view, so Fuller will be adding flush view ports.
He probably is aware of Costella's streamliner where he uses a periscope. He needs smooth salt or the car vibrates so bad it is hard for him to see.
His canopy wraps around to comply with the rules, but since he is sitting/laying so low I wonder if he can actually see out the sides. Maybe you guys could put clear panels down on the sides of the car if frame members aren't in the way to see out.
There are more pictures of Costella's car ( HERE (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bonnevillepictures/bvillepictures-02-4.html) ).
c ya, Sum
Mike:
I'd love to post some pics of Fuller's car on www.allshops.org :idea:
We can set you up with your own album,whatever you want.
I've had some concerns about the vision issue from the start, but Fuller isn't about to change anything until he's seen that it needs to be.
The 'liner's hull is monocoque -- 10-ga CR steel plate, Tig welded -- so view ports must be kept small so the strength of the hull isn't compromised.
Mike
I live a couple of miles from Tardel's and stop by on occasion, I remember when Kent was working on his liner there. Man is it small inside and boy is it something to see how he shaped the 10 gauge! Remember that is .1345 thick, you don't just hit it with a hammer a little tap to make it move! I am so glade to hear that Kent is back on track with this car and that Vern is going to do the unblown motor, it will be stout and run good!! Can't wait for August!!!
Rex
Fuller's not likely to make Speed Week '06 but is hoping to be there for the Finals in October. We were moving ahead with my truck as well, although about a month behind schedule, when I had an attack of adultism this weekend and decided to shut it down until I complete a book assignment that's due right about Speed Week.
I have much of the essential hardware gathered and will continue to add to the pile between now and September when I jump back on the truck unencumbered by a book deadline. The combination of a decrease in stress, having made my decision, plus the anticipation of being able to concentrate on the truck alone next Fall and Winter until it's finished has put a big smile on my face. :D
I hope to join the Sidewinders in the Fall and plan to run the truck at El Mirage for the '07 season beginning next May. If I'm careful with my expenses and can recruit some "fence painters" I may be able to run all three meets before Speed Week '07 on the Salt. This is lookin' like a pretty good fallback plan! :lol:
Mike
That adultism sucks doesn't it. :D
Quote from: "enjenjo"That adultism sucks doesn't it. :D
Yes it does, Frank. I guess I should be thankful that it hasn't really affected me much in the past.
Mike
That 'liner is one fine looking machine. The periscope thing though... that gives me the heebie-jeebies.
I know it doesn't really make any difference, but I'd rather be looking down the road at 300+ mph with my OWN EYES! :lol:
Quote from: "av8"My racetruck program might go into parked mode for Speed Week '06, but it's for a very good reason; Kent Fuller's flathead streamliner project is back on track!
Hey that's great news, since i can't make it for '06 and I know you'd hate to ddebut the truck without me being there. :wink:
QuoteWith Fuller's 'liner back on track, I think I can hold off until '07. 8)
Cool, I'll make it a point to be there in '07. heck, much as i hate to plan more than a day ahead, i might just go out tomorrow and book the flights.
Quote from: "Brootal"That 'liner is one fine looking machine. The periscope thing though... that gives me the heebie-jeebies.
I know it doesn't really make any difference, but I'd rather be looking down the road at 300+ mph with my OWN EYES! :lol:
I feel the same way, Boris. You're correct in that it doesn't make any difference when you get into serious "salt shake." Ed Hegarty told me that during tire testing on the Dozier-Hegarty 'liner, when they tried aircraft rubber, the shake was so intense at about 225 mph that the view out the canopy was one great blur -- couldn't see markers, couldn't see the line. It wasn't any better inside the cockpit with the instruments and controls all blurred as well.
My
Quote from: "Carps"Quote from: "av8"My racetruck program might go into parked mode for Speed Week '06, but it's for a very good reason; Kent Fuller's flathead streamliner project is back on track!
Hey that's great news, since i can't make it for '06 and I know you'd hate to ddebut the truck without me being there. :wink:
QuoteWith Fuller's 'liner back on track, I think I can hold off until '07. 8)
Cool, I'll make it a point to be there in '07. heck, much as i hate to plan more than a day ahead, i might just go out tomorrow and book the flights.
With a couple of El Mirage meets to sort out the truck before Speed Week '07 -- and get me past the early rush of driving, we'll probably be taking turns driving the black line once we have a pair or two of runs we're happy with.
If we don't wound the lump during all that maybe we can get you suited up and in the drivers' queue. :D
Mike
Hello!
It's so wonderful to see the interest in Kent Fuller's streamliner through this thread. I just wanted to offer you all an update, and ask for a little help as my grandfather moves into the final phases of his project. We plan to run at Bonneville this August, and your support will be HUGE in bringing this dream to fruition.
I will be launching a Kickstarter campaign in Kent's name mid-March to raise the funds to put the finishing touches on the liner, and if you don't mind passing along the link to friends who might be interested, please do. I will post the Kickstarter link to this thread as soon as the site goes live. Just wanted to get you all in the loop as early as possible.
Thank you so much, in advance, and if you have any questions regarding the project, please feel free to send them my way!
Best,
Jenna
Welcome to the Rodding Round table Jenna.
You posted to a 7 year old thread.
Best of luck to you