The Rodding Roundtable
Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: kb426 on March 31, 2020, 10:02:22 AM
I've been thinking about this subject for some time. I want to improve on my past efforts and build what could be the last hot rod for me. This list is the mechanical parameters that I have composed. I'm asking for comments, good, bad or ugly. :) I have no answer for the vehicle base for this yet. That's more difficult for me than mechanics.
Ultimate hot rod mechanics
At least 12" rotors on front
hydroboost
rack and pinion steering
350 hp or more
overdrive
IFS with coilovers
Spindles that will take a 6.5" backspace wheel without going to 18" diameter wheels
Adequate cooling system with quiet electric fan
Vintage Air
Modern door latches
All controls and seating set for driver comfort on long days
Good sound control and thermal control in interior
Possible IRS such as 2015 and newer Mustang rear
Good electrics with relays for all high capacity circuits
EFI
In tank fuel pump.
At least 15 gal. fuel capacity
At least 20 mpg on highway
Engineered properly for ease of maintenance
Regular components for easy availability of replacement
Sway bars front and rear
Stiff frame to provide precise handling
Spare tire and jack, misc. tools storage space
Good audio system
Enough suspension travel to absorb serious bumps without harshness
Halogen headlights that work well
Modern glass seals to avoid air leaks
Modern engine without oil leaks and good durability
That's just what I'm trying to get to with my 32.
May get close but no cigar!
Good luck. :D
I guess that rules out a T bucket :lol: Late 40s ford coupe might be a good platform. 350 horse might not be too hard to find in a completely stock modern vehicle. You could probably tick almost everything off the list with a newer insurance write off vehicle. I would probably not use a mustang , right KB ! :lol:
cup holder(seriously)
cruise control (sure makes a long trip easier)
I like the signals in the mirrors for safety and place the mirrors where you can actually see out of them.
Heated seats are cheap and easy to instal. Not so much for the heat but to make your back feel better.
Tail lights that can be seen.
Newport windshield wipers
Fire extinguisher(inside the car)
Some kind of a compartment with a lid that you can store maps, important papers, ....
I like the mechanical design of this companies products, https://www.factoryfive.com/33-hot-rod/what-you-get-complete/. but not the body so much. The kinda 33 coupe look with the 32 grille is interesting. A friend built one of their Cobra's and he had limited skills, and tools. His car preformed well and looked good. I would never pay what they want for their kit, but I might be tempted to buy an unfinished one that someone gave up on. They do handle well, even if they do not look so much like a true hot rod.
Gee .......Your list looks like something Cadilliac would build.......Check the Correct boxes & provide a check.......
With luck you may get free oil changes..... :idea: :D
Bob.....
John, very good points. Good mirrors, cruise control and the fire ext. are missing from the 51. To it's credit, the throttle pedal was put where I wanted it. The 900 mile trip home from Louisville was without pain. :) Bob, that's a valid point. I got curious so I went to the dictionary. The definition of hot rod is: an automobile rebuilt or modified for high speed and fast acceleration
We will probably agree in principle about that. John and I discussed this some time ago. We both agreed that an older smaller vehicle should be the basis for this. That tells something about our age group. :) 1940 and older tends to make a rod for me. However, when I started running the fuel car, the west coast guys all called them hot rods. Bob, I agree that it sounds like a Caddie. Is there any reason that a hot rod shouldn't do everything that a CTS-V can do with different aesthetics? When I was researching components for the 32, I asked a prominent builder what it would take to make one handle good. I was met with laughter. In retrospect, I see the high center of gravity and lack of substantial suspension being the factors that limit handling. One of the obstacles I see is the lack of suspension travel. You need some absorption of travel from rough spots before the vehicle becomes a projectile. 3 or 4" won't allow that to happen. I like low cool rides a lot. None of my stuff is real low because of driveability. I don't want to give up that factor. That makes this become an engineering exercise. Thanks for the comments. :)
processing input :-}
I don't see why you shouldn't go for as much of that as possible. The better the car drives the more you're going to drive it...and isn't that the point?
Keeping it to a single nutshell-full of personal guesses...
37-war coupe, any domestic. The FF idea is great, car just not big enough. Remove unisides (or cab sides) and underbody rails from modern wreck, quarter the floor, remove floor from coupe, insert modern floor quarters, trim or fill in. Use seats, pedals, column, shifter, cluster all pretty much as a unit. Mount to coupe frame or integrate body and frame. Detachable subframe(s) optional. Minimal but good pro cage. Then stuff the mill. Cake! :lol:
a friend of mine basically re bodied a dakota with a studebaker truck . Used the frame/driveline/firewall/dash all as a unit . plunked the stude on it and started driving . They drove it from Vancouver to my town , Saskatoon with no issues . Thats about a 20 hour trip each way.
A guy wouldn't have to use a whole modern floor. I guess what I am trying to say is if you like how a CTS-V "sits", use the whole driver area section and retain as much of what you touch as possible to just plug in so you don't have to arrange your "cockpit" from scratch. I think it would make sense if the driver's area and powerplant were from a common donor.
Until you opened the hood or looked underneath , you would not know my friend had changed anything on his studebaker wrap job .
Gee....I was just to be a smart guy....But a CTS does fit the bill......Remember......Hey....You build it & we will buy it.....
By golly.....they even fit through the car wash.
:!: :!:
I used the CTS-V as an example. If we move on to the actual vehicle, that is too large a base for any of the older platforms. The performance is what I'm after. :)
Use Corvette for the example then. And a model A with bedded glass and bear claws. You mentioned spare and tools and storage and if you want small thats a conundrum. Looked at used FFs?
To me, "ultimate" means something different. For example I would want steel wheels because ultimate means it can keep fighting while badly injured. A getaway car. For escaping violent road ragers. 350 HP isn't much of a getaway car though. That brings up looks. To me, "ultimate" car is one that won't get a second glance from a trooper for going 20-30 over the limit, as is now par. Can't do that in an arrest me red hot rod. But if I turned the engine in my GTP sideways on a Camaro subframe, pulley it down, hook up a five speed and nine inch on leafs, no glance. Do you want the car as an admission ticket to rodder meets or do you want a car to drive?
Are we leaving trucks and Mustangs out? Do you really just want to build another chassis and don't know what to set on it? I'll stick with the discussion or drop it and leave you be, whichever you like but I can't really tell if this is a statement or question thread. :?
Matt, those are good points. Question thread would be my description. People with years of exp. and different view points always point out something beneficial. If you could drive 50 different hot rods, you would gain some info from each one. That isn't possible for me so asking for input is it. :)
I won't be much help then. My experience is all GM intermediates from the muscle and smog eras and I pretty much see everything as adaptations of those type vehicles.
Quote from: "idrivejunk"I won't be much help then. My experience is all GM intermediates from the muscle and smog eras and I pretty much see everything as adaptations of those type vehicles.
I once had thoughts of building a Pontiac Sunbird supermodified for the street. I had the donor car, but someone else wanted it more than I did so I sold it. I always thought something like a Austin seven special would be a great street car.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a25628381/caterham-seven-configurator/
There are plans out thereto up size the Lotus Seven style build to all Corvette suspension. Look at the Locost board.
Quote from: "enjenjo"Quote from: "idrivejunk"I won't be much help then. My experience is all GM intermediates from the muscle and smog eras and I pretty much see everything as adaptations of those type vehicles.
I once had thoughts of building a Pontiac Sunbird supermodified for the street. I had the donor car, but someone else wanted it more than I did so I sold it. I always thought something like a Austin seven special would be a great street car.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a25628381/caterham-seven-configurator/
Of course theres an app for that.
My choice would be J2000 rather than Sunbird. More Bandit-esque.
For me, theres no need that can't be met using a GM A or X body. 8)
I have the Locost web site bookmarked. I have seriously considered building one as a fun car. IDJ, you asked about Mustangs. That's not very high on my list because of a few factors. One of which is it would be low and not the easiest for old people to get in and out of. All the rods I've built have the seat height set high enough that they're modeled after my Dakota. I don't know if I could sit flat on the floor and be ok for long periods of time anymore. I spent 14 hour days in a 1st gen Miata 20 years ago. :) I have an aversion to fenders but a cross country vehicle needs something for the rain storms. Lots of compromises. :) Does anybody remember the deuce that Woody Gilmore built with pushrod ifs? I'd like to know how that drove?
Now we're getting somewhere 8)
I avoid saying 40 Ford coupe because I know, unobtainium and almost but not quite your rod style. Street, not hot.
Firing away :arrow:
Wrecked fullsize late model mid or full size pickup. Pair of quarters for model A or B. Make the rest, let chassis dictate body width or alter body and frame width both. :idea:
I could conjure that digitally if it grabs ya any.
Dakota or Ranger chassis, 'glas Vicky or five window body cut to fit extended cab pickup parameters and with or without bed gap.
Bonus 2 ยข = 4WD + boost.
:)
There is a fiberglass 36 ford pickup body kit that fits a ranger chassis .Not sure what year. A guy in town has one for sale . SBC power
I would have to say that on any of these conversions it might be better to go with one of these kits than to start with one on your own ideas. The "hot rod" idea is usually centered around the earlier body styles with the engines placed behind the front axle and most of the later chassis have the engine sitting over the front axle. The S10 chassis I put under my Jeepster has a wheelbase very close to the original Jeepster's frame . I had to move the S10's original engine more than 7" to the rear to get the engine under the Jeepster's hood. GPster
Good inputs there ^^^
Just stoking coals once more here. For years, this same ultimate project has stewed in my noggin and I always end up at late 30s coupe because I like fenders, but...
without a shred of fear of ridicule :lol: I toss this on the fire:
My ultimate could totally be a one seater. In light of that, a narrow body (not suggesting anybody or myself is big by complaining about cabin width) with limited legroom might benefit from an offset powerplant and /or or use of a transfer case and 4x4 front axle out back (or one with altered, offset axle lengths). That may be nine kinds of crazy, or more. But that thought has also been in my front to rear drive ponderings personally and the thought is that if a reasonable balance of weight side to side and the center of gravity stayed within safe limits there might be something to it. Allowing the driveshaft to scoot over half a foot or something. Thoughts?
I would look around and try to find someone's unfinished project for sale. A lot of times you can purchase those for a good price if they are not too far along. Some guys will start a project, and for one reason or another give up or circumstances force them to sell. I have seen some good buys for sale on hotrodhotline.com over the years. I don't watch Craig's list, but I would start watching postings on it, too.
Matt, are you suggesting all wheel drive?
rumrumm, I have been watching. :)
GPster, that's a good point. I tend to build chassis from scratch so I'm versed in your comments.
In my last post, no. Post before last, yes. :?
From your previous posts it seems like you are a Ford guy but a 'tri five Chevy w/a 5.3 LS would fit well. Tanks has tanks w/ internal fuel pump, there's plenty of suspension upgrades out there, plenty of repro sheet metal including full floor pans. I replaced my '40 Ford coupe w/a '57 Chevy Handyman 2d wagon & really like the extra space.
No question about the aftermarket support for tri 5's. I rebuilt a 57 back in the med 70's. We were still using the best parts we could find from junked cars. :)
What about something like this?
^^^^^
Occasionally I think about exotics, but that makes me think of a circle track car for the street. No thank you. :)
So many ideas and ways to solve my needs. A closed (to limit outside noise/distraction), single seat car (to eliminate inside distraction) with an automatic transmission (to eliminate having to keep track of engine labor for shifting), power brakes, and power steering is kind of what I need/want. Something simple to not overwhelm my mind with how things work (computers) so I can reason how to fix them if they don't. Because I figure this would not be a primary use vehicle and I probably only drive 6.000 miles a year in my vehicle it could be an around town car that when I parked it at Walmart people could look at it and wonder "What the hell is that?". I envision an early VW "Bug" body, fender-less, that has been narrowed (to a comfortable single person width) with the seat centered over the tunnel and moved to ward the rear to allow for a moved firewall. One door could be welded closed to add stiffness to the body. Because it's fender-less the wheelbase could be less dependent on the style of the body. The torsion-bar front suspension could be assembled to put the spindles in front of the torsion bar tubes, the hood could be lengthened as needed and the back-end could be "Baja" style for air movement for a rear-mounted radiator. I dream of this being done cheaply because this thing will have no value to anyone other than me and should be disposable when my eyesight causes me to give up my driving rights. Fantasy is easier than reality. GPster
Zag while others zig, Bill. Fire breathing tubbed Pinto wagon with low rise flat top snorkel scoop and woodgrain if you want. :lol:
I say that as comedy but y'know... :idea:
... and on the other hand...
Smog era Rancheros are extremely comfortable. :?
OK, serious now. I was on a site yesterday and saw that Factory5 makes a "33" pickup. Did not know that! Made me think that using just their body might have potential for you. Looks pretty mean, just is so tiny.
Matt, they had a good display at Louisville last year. I looked things over very closely. It's obvious they are mass produced vehicles. There is good with the bad. All made to a price point. What they have done is allowed many owners to have a dream car without spending a fortune. Many have built their own car and have the satisfaction of doing so. :)
Quote from: "enjenjo"What about something like this?
That Porsche is hilarious. :)
Quote from: "jaybee"Quote from: "enjenjo"What about something like this?
That Porsche is hilarious. :)
I wasn't posting it because it was a Porsche, it was just the idea. Any small body could be used to build it. And it doesn't have to be open wheel, big honking fender flares would look good too.My thought was to build a modern take on a 30s or 40s sports coupe. Like a delahey or some of the old Jaguars.
It made me smile. I'd walk past a bunch of other cars at a car show to see it.