The Rodding Roundtable
Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: idrivejunk on July 11, 2017, 09:52:28 PM
Here is another project from the shop I work at, one I know will be interesting to follow whether I get involved or not. Been mentioning it here and there but figured a thread just for it was in order because it is a show quality build to-be. Gets a new aftermarket frame and modern goodies but I believe it will be red again in the end.
Several factors have complicated my trusty pic posting routine, and as time allows I will back-fill this story with any previous pics I can find. But it came back from being blasted today, safe and sound. So now... tick tock says the clock... its awful hot and humid out these days. SOP is to sand the exterior with 80 after blasting, maybe some cleanup scuffing elsewhere, lots of cleaning and wiping then epoxy on the metal that will stay.
Here she is, needs work. Yes I let out a barely audible groan during this quick walkaround and reminded myself its a Pontiac. I love (lots of later model) Pontiacs! Looking at it in bare steel, I see different metal than the 60 Chevy I just did, just about everywhere. But I bet those will be the parts I work with. Dunno whuts available for these but I'm getting better at making stuff. Reckon we'll see in due time. Thanx for passin'' thru!
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/66chevroldsmobuiac/various%20jobs/Catalina/20170711_165949_zpsdsqknrsa.jpg) (http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/66chevroldsmobuiac/media/various%20jobs/Catalina/20170711_165949_zpsdsqknrsa.jpg.html)
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/66chevroldsmobuiac/various%20jobs/Catalina/20170711_170007_zpszs8lis1e.jpg) (http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/66chevroldsmobuiac/media/various%20jobs/Catalina/20170711_170007_zpszs8lis1e.jpg.html)
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/66chevroldsmobuiac/various%20jobs/Catalina/20170711_170107_zpsypvvqpyv.jpg) (http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/66chevroldsmobuiac/media/various%20jobs/Catalina/20170711_170107_zpsypvvqpyv.jpg.html)
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/66chevroldsmobuiac/various%20jobs/Catalina/20170711_170126_zpsemoemg6m.jpg) (http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/66chevroldsmobuiac/media/various%20jobs/Catalina/20170711_170126_zpsemoemg6m.jpg.html)
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h411/66chevroldsmobuiac/various%20jobs/Catalina/20170711_170051_zpsmh6rrz1i.jpg) (http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/66chevroldsmobuiac/media/various%20jobs/Catalina/20170711_170051_zpsmh6rrz1i.jpg.html)
It looks better than the chevy. Am I missing some ugly spots?
Oh its definitely better. Boss says the Biz was the rustiest one we've done. I am just mainly concerned about pans I sure hope they are available because I'm not seeing much that the Chevy parts would work for.
'Nother one to watch, a blast from the past.
When I was in the Navy, '61-'62 or thereabouts, I was an E-3, and didn't have two nickels to rub together, but a feller can dream. I was wandering about in the University neighborhood of San Diego, and came across a neighborhood used car lot. The guy had two Pontiacs, a '59, and a '60, both Catalina 2 door hardtops. The '59 was navy blue with a white top, and the '60 was wine red; honestly, I don't even remember the interiors, but the '60 had a warmed up engine, and they both had four speeds. Well, I was wound up in the '59, and the sales guy was just hangin' out jawin' with me when a couple, older folks, probably in their fifties, took an interest in the '60; the man made the comment that with that four speed, that thing would probably tow pretty good. The sales guy said yep, it had plenty of power, and kind of winked sideways at me, asked if they would like to drive it. They took him up on the offer. They got into it, and when the man started it, he took note of the rough idle and commented that it sounded as if it needed a tune up; the sales guy just smiled. When the gent pulled out onto the boulevard, he stopped, made sure it was in first gear, and romped on it, probably thinking he would see what the granny gear was like; boy did he get a surprise. It is a good thing there wasn't any traffic on the boulevard, because that fella got that Cat sideways in both directions, and wound up heading the wrong way before he got it stopped. They got out of it right there, and just walked away without any comment, seemed to be a bit shaken up. The sales guy asked me if I would like to drive the '60, and I took him up on his offer; got it back on the right side of the street, took it down the road and back, loving every minute of it. When all was said and done, the red Cat was back in it's spot in the lot, safe and sound, and the sales guy, knowing I couldn't hack the prices of the cars, offered me a cuppa joe and a donut, and we shot the breeze for a while before I walked on down the street.
Good story, Rumbler. :)
That is a grr-rrreat story and masterfully told :D 8) I was rooting for a third pedal from the moment I saw it. But it had a lake under it instead. But tri-power! It gets an LS swap and custom Art Morrison chassis according to the plan.
This thread was kinda bare and thats a good kickoff. Still have not asked if we are getting floors that are for a Cat. I could make whatever work, I suppose. They are feverishly preparing for the DP90LF. It took me 3 days to prep the Chevelle by myself. I marked some cuts over the floor bracing and they cut them out to aid in blowing out all the residual blast media. Found a couple pics of when it was still red. Barely. Had disc hubcaps, dice, and skirts when it came in, and it was a leaky but running driver.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oL4w5Z98_3c/WWggXQCbFvI/AAAAAAAAABQ/OquO0nxnLokeRpgIrsNuy5XuWBASVDKwQCLcBGAs/s1600/20170505_123917.jpg)
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Apologies for the broken pics in the first post, guys. I may be able to fix that with a PM. Just letting you know replacement pics plus more are coming soon. :roll: :wink: :arrow:
OK guys the pics are coming at ya now. The new way is time consuming as heck though!
I would like some opinions on the photo size. Is it too big? The next step down is about a quarter this size.
I am uploading at full size but can edit them to be what they call extra large. :roll: If you are viewing on a PC and they are wider than your screen, try holding the ctrl key and tapping the minus sign a time or two to unzoom the whole page. Plus sign zooms. I am using the aspect ratio of an old TV and they are a bit wider than my monitor. If nobody has an issue, I'll keep on like this :arrow:
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One more post should bring this story current. Coming right up. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
It's the end of the day. I'm tired and looking at the pic of the crud on the trans and all I can do is laugh! Maybe argon disables your brain cells from solid reasoning. :) I have no doubt that car will be special when your shop is finished.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KQQKoJOvW3c/WWqm3OemLtI/AAAAAAAAADU/pDRpX9q8AmwErIaCNzbs87g6B803AuXAACLcBGAs/s1600/20170614_165536.jpg)
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That gets the pics current but not the story... Epoxy primer was applied Friday but I didn't get a pic. Thanks for looking, this should be a cool build :!: 8)
Quote from: "kb426"It's the end of the day. I'm tired and looking at the pic of the crud on the trans and all I can do is laugh! Maybe argon disables your brain cells from solid reasoning. :) I have no doubt that car will be special when your shop is finished.
I laid low today enough for both of us. :) It would have been a nifty car with a trans swap and not much else but they are going whole hog. Fix your brain like I do... fire up your loudest one and go slay a few bugs before the sun sets. :idea:
Epoxy pics- 8)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tlmOYSxd6gU/WXAGzS69AQI/AAAAAAAAAE0/KjcI2AzgUK0nWzU77I5WzQ5u0WkW9zOjQCLcBGAs/s1600/20170718_114552.jpg)
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Do you have a roller die for the bead roller that will match the floor panels you have to cut out? I've made some special dies to do that in the past.
I think all we have is what came with the roller. Improvisation may be required. The pans and other metal research has not gone very far yet, I found out. Supposedly floors for that car are available. The trunk pan might be like this one on a bubbletop Chevy. The way I see it theres enough we can do before we gotta have pans yet so I am not worrying yet. Much.
Heres this project's latest blog entry in case you would like to visit it. The words may be different than this thread but the pics are same. :arrow:
http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/07/catalina-in-black-primer.html
Have I ever said how much I like to chop :?:
I do. Got my hands on the Cat today, at least part of it. I have separated the trunk lid skin and shell and will be making a new flange for the shell without disturbing the folded perimeter of the skin. See the whole story here-
https://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/07/catalina-repairs-trunk-lid.html
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cWbTkwgIHlo/WXflMa-rXDI/AAAAAAAAAMo/zNE72jmK0Z4KsUoS37hNLqWBOy3xAm1pgCLcBGAs/s1600/20170725_140827.jpg)
I believe it was Artie Johnson on Laugh In that used to say "very interesting". :)
That show was far out, man. 8)
NEAT :!: :!: :idea: 8)
Bob.. :wink:
Howdy, Bob. I bet it will be the only 59 Cat at the show with no rust crumbs on the trunk mat. :lol: :D
I updated the blog linked earlier, go check it out again for the details. :arrow:
Samples-
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-REwyELIo1OE/WXfpExxeqPI/AAAAAAAAANg/fu2ozwSCWkwySAX4MzSmchG84Nk4JqLQgCEwYBhgL/s1600/20170725_160828.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OcJSJwgl1Zg/WXvBEq3erUI/AAAAAAAAAQg/zFZde0wqzxoKlqa0ykPA5cmhAx1IWsm6gCLcBGAs/s1600/20170726_132759.jpg)[img]
The shell was taken back to the blaster and I am on something else at the moment-
http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/07/bronco-repairs-floor.html
Again, any feedback about the blog is welcome. The trunk lid post does seem interesting so I upped the size of the words hoping they will not be so lost among the pictures. :)
Guys I haven't forgotten about posting, Just can't keep pace with equipment failures. Been without a PC 2-3 weeks and not going to post pics I can only see at 2" across. The deck lid repairs are complete except for final test fit and welding the pieces together. I will show stuff when I can. :D
That is one cool car.
I concur. 8)
Found a workaround for my computer situation and I have posted more pics of the trunk lid progress :arrow:
http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/07/catalina-repairs-trunk-lid.html
http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/09/catalina-repairs-trunk-lid-part-two.
http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/09/catalina-repairs-trunk-lid-part-three.html
Matt, that trunk lid has presented an interesting challenge. :) Good progress!
Thank you sir :) Luckily the design of the panel allows this approach. Doing just the sketchy stuff and leaving the rest for fellow workers is new to me but I like it alright. Whoever does the cleanup and epoxy inside the skin can expect me to glance over their shoulder at least once.
Guys if it weren't such an involved process for me to post pics now I could put the whole story here like old times. Hope that you all can access the blog just as easily.
That's a neat way to repair that rust issue .... :idea: Thank You for taking the time to post all the photos ...
Bob .. :wink:
The front trunk gutter being so flat must be why the corrosion hot spot happens there. Tree fallout buildup and nobdy cares to change trunk weatherstrips until after a paint job. :idea: So I figure its worth detailed coverage since it might apply to many cars. Glad to share it, Bob. :)
When are you starting the how to book ? Then you could make lots of money and get a pet lion . I bet the neighbors dog would stop barking !
I don't think it will be a whole lot longer before my body can't do this stuff, so maybe then? Right arm is ate up with handicaps and I'd probably have to voice type because this hurts too if I do enough of it. However theres hope because I'd wager that about a quart of that good old mountain lion dew would make mutts cower. No need to feed a whole cat. I did see coyote urine advertised but my favorite dog is bigger than one. :shock:
Chopping floors to get the body down on new frame-
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This will be interesting to watch. I had thought about doing this before but not enough to have a real plan. :)
"This" being 59 Cat on 17 Morrison :?:
No. Replacing a unibody floor with a full chassis. That's pretty common anymore so I've watched several build threads and there seems to be 2 common ways. 1 is to remove all the floor to the rocker panels and the other is to splice in. But most have straight frame rails, not lots of angles. The angles make it more interesting to watch. :)
This is still kind of an "X" style frame like was original instead of a perimeter frame, correct?
KB I should have put a smiley on my post too. :D I am pumped about this job. This is a full size B body that had an X or hourglass type frame. The headers hop a stock frame and run outside the rails. This frame has room for pipes along the driveshaft. Rails are three feet apart up front. I just about have it down all the way now. The desired rocker height at rest is 5 3/4". :)
Great work Matt. Keep it up as long as you enjoy it. Then hopefully you can just manage others to do as you tell them.
Or Write a book. :)
That yesterday was a mighty tough afternoon I must say. That hurt!
Just a couple hours on it today got it the rest of the way down. For a scale reference, wheelbase is 122".
Here is a pic for proof:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WkWf9q3NB7E/WcVXGc03CCI/AAAAAAAAAdE/FBqLP6FPYPI5yywEiZ0AM8juJp8r_oPRACLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_23810-20170922_1059562063932750.jpg)
The tape measure here indicates ride height of the rocker when it's all said and done, and the bottom of the frame and body do end up about even.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OQ7lE-1o1rk/WcVW4PUMfUI/AAAAAAAAAdA/r9_8125gipU3OiAcLTydg-Xwv8r73P7OQCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_23810-20170922_1059331137283769.jpg)
Top of the rails, once mounts and bushings are in place, are intended to be juuuust below the level of the stock pans at the front footwells. The angle iron under the firewall mounts holds it a little low, and the wood blocks out back are a little thick. My work thus far was just to get enough clearance to sink the body far enough down to nail down exact placement. So far so good!
Visit my blog to see more pictures at:
http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/09/catalina-repairs-body-mounting.html?m=1
Guys let me run my body mounting logic past you,OK?
1- Level frame
2- Level body
3- Center body
4- Establish fore/aft body position referencing wheelbase to front body mount, to match original dimension
5- Lower rear of body onto mount bushings
6- Lower front of body until rockers are level again, then support body with temporary braces attached to frame.
7- Fit drivetrain and tires / wheels
8- Fit bolt on panels
9- Build floors and bracing and attach body mount pads to frame
10- Rust patching
Sound right?
I am at step 6 and the whole thing is on a dolly now. I am told it can be rolling inside of one day so I think I will get the trunk lid skin tacked to the shell and remove it to finish that up while it gets some wheels under it. And I'll request front and trunk pans be ordered, along with a couple kinds of square tubing I want to use for frame mount pads and floor braces. This is great fun and hard work! :)
I was doing real good until 10. :)
It is everywhere. I could build an argument that it's as bad as the Biscayne was. Hey, Bill what would you think if you saw round tube such as exhaust pipe used to make floor braces? The frame has round tube crossbars at front and over the axle.
Matt, if it was a race car and we were fighting weight, I'd be ok. On a street car knowing that there is alot of 18 gauge tubing out there, I wouldn't think it was the best idea. At 14 gauge I wouldn't have thought much about it. Now with that being said, I realize that an engineer with a slide rule, calculator or a computer is much more adept at stress analysis that my cad or chalk on the floor so I'll go be quiet in the corner. :)
Don't worry, a barf bag will drop down above your seat as we approach step ten.
Tubing is just a thought that crossed my mind when imagining how to be simple and effective. 16 ga would do, and it popped in my head that a row of plug welds atop round supports could be corrosion proofed so much better than with a boxed brace. Can anyone offer input as to potentially using thin wall square tubing to make floor braces? My thought is I could shape them quicker with pie cuts and stuff, and go all the way out to the inner rockers rather than trying to blend in with whats left of the originals. Fanciness level could drive the price into orbit here and nobody wants that but we all want it to look like it sort of belongs and of course the fabbed parts have to be strong enough for the job.
A couple of thoughts: round tubing is the same strength in all directions, square or rectangle isn't. When you mix round and square, it doesn't always look correct. Most will say that nobody sees what's underneath but we all know that lots of people look and care. When the cost factor is the strongest comparator versus ascetics or optimum strength, I think the decision has already been made. In general, same wall thickness on either will be comparable in strength. :)
I am forming options to present to the powers that be, really. If they don't make the choice, I will. Before I even sleep on it I know my inclination is leaning toward square tube, 2.5 or 3", not sure what is avalable. In my mind, the rigidity is plenty either way and the floor is not a crush zone per se, although with the hourglass frame that is less true than with ladder type. If a wreck gets into the pan area you may already be dead. If it flips over I want that body nailed to the frame, and a greater number of round supports would be needed in that event. Building on to the existing support remains sounds like a lot of work that would look hokey anyway. In any case, its getting a bazillion body mounts. As far as the uncut unwelded structural integrity of tubing or pipe goes, all that will be lost to notching and clearancing this or that plus the row of plug welds. No need for the supports to absorb impact like a cage. Speed in shaping the pieces is more of a concern than whether they would be strong enough. It could be strong enough either way if thought out well. The car is probably going to weigh more than stock and it certainly is a show car.
I sure appreciate your contribution to my mental process, never be shy. :)
I have done floor supports out of square and rectangular tubing when doing a frame swap. I have also folded hat section floor supports out of 16 ga sheet metal. I have even cut up Cadet tractor shipping crates for floor supports. Outside of seat belts and seat supports the floor never sees much of a load. It's not like you can stand up and jump on it.
The 34 Desoto I did had 17 body mounts on each side from the factory. That is more than I have seen on any car.
That brown and white 65 GTO ragtop had twenty something mounts. So Frank was there any advantage using square tube vs bending from scratch? How did you add flanges when using tube? I agree, as long as the seat and mounts are plenty strong there are few other things to worry about.
Maybe I've missed it but all this hasn't shown any pics of how the wheel will look in the wheel openings. I have heard comments from different people about how certain cars never appear to have the wheels in the openings properly. That might even be compounded by the lowness that you are going. If you are going only by wheelbase and the point at the firewall/body line you will not be changing any original design flaws. I think maybe you should at least have some of your plywood wheels on it. I personally would stick with rectangular/square tubing mounts as flat to round shapes gets too confusing for me to look at (one eye). Aren't you glad it wasn't a convertible? GPster
GPster, man yeah I'm glad. I decided bent from scratch from 16 ga is my high road choice. It might not be as bad as I thought. Keeping remnants of the originals may be feasible. A buddy on the other forum helped me see the light as far as how to make them.
There was a borrowing of wheels and squinting at-
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JDPd7KWHmJI/WWqm38bcMuI/AAAAAAAAADY/LkDYCaIXCl4Brc031ZDTdXRsBxi6atmFgCEwYBhgL/s1600/20170606_120245.jpg)
This first blog post on it has a couple pics of it together. Not the right pic angle really.
http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/07/catalina-repairs.html?m=1
Quote from: "idrivejunk"That brown and white 65 GTO ragtop had twenty something mounts. So Frank was there any advantage using square tube vs bending from scratch? How did you add flanges when using tube? I agree, as long as the seat and mounts are plenty strong there are few other things to worry about.
Not really any advantage to square tubing other than the speed of setup. If the pieces have to have shape you might consider hammer forming it over a wooden form. You can make serviceable forms out of pallet wood.
That may very well come into play also. I feel well armed with options now and thanks guys for reminding me of that stuff. All the input has been duly absorbed and when the day comes to build the floor, I shall boldly go and fear no evil. :)
Somewhere during the lift and dolly shuffle, one of the nuts on my flimsy temporary front body mount shelves worked loose so the body was sitting crooked when I walked in today. I had it backwards on the dolly too, so I backed up and rethunk. Nabbed 4 body mount bushings off the old frame (wow, still very rubbery like new) and inserted them at the corners of the body. Then I redid my frame and body leveling to a finer level of accuracy. At this point, it sits as close as I can make it to perfect given that its on a rollaround dolly on the shop floor. So now we have a sufficiently accurate mock up to fit engine and trans plus wheels and tires. None of that is in hand yet (no worries because theres always step ten while we wait for the big ticket items), so the Biscayne may lend wheels again (see last pic) because both cars will run 20s. If you look close, you can see that we now have lug studs all around.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-B1l15fkqJPA/Wcrwd4ess1I/AAAAAAAAAeA/m7EvlzHmME4PmnmJS2JUMXdxvLODWxR3ACEwYBhgL/s1600/tmp_12995-20170926_165748998924719.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CjDLArg8zNU/WcrwkUHf6mI/AAAAAAAAAeA/Y4VuZdu7_ikkODQQS49Bgs4jmycr9oRIQCEwYBhgL/s1600/tmp_12995-20170926_165830388926010.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3R5r7jIUIPc/Wcrwr5s5-9I/AAAAAAAAAeA/CIpHAFYK25Yf0lGsO-wi-YaHbXEgpPHeQCEwYBhgL/s1600/tmp_12995-20170926_165900922500460.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8rjjOGC0GRQ/Wcrw6k7vm4I/AAAAAAAAAeA/J7e5hTHkEp8lDhEWk9y9FdI8hjjtxtBNgCEwYBhgL/s1600/tmp_12995-20170926_165958317116359.jpg)
Of course I am going to need some answers about the seats to proceed. But as you can see, I will probably be lifting the trans tunnel up some.
Today I also installed a trunk weatherstrip and the latch, refined lid adjustment, tacked skin to flanges, took the lid off and started doing the plug welds. Almost done now, and the lid fits real nice with the latch and seal. Only area less than lovely is the lead seam where the two halves of upper quarter meet, near the right front corner of the trunk opening, ahead of the antenna hole. A little low there, no big deal. Looks like nothing major will haunt me on this fix.
I'm just going to put up a couple pics from the new part four blog post then link you to the rest. Only gap pics are from the first test fit.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SLe7FzjCM5A/Wcr3bTD63LI/AAAAAAAAAew/qVRtbJn8N7c5QQOFVG9-LEOimQexmwTEQCEwYBhgL/s1600/tmp_12995-20170919_170248622556641.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-A1lwvZ75J0c/Wcr5dYS80-I/AAAAAAAAAfA/F66BYmUoy7AInga-XP9AW5PN0n2hY1dEwCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_12995-20170926_1700261580529138.jpg)
http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/09/catalina-repairs-trunk-lid-part-four.html
Look at it and see if it might make sense to raise up the whole floor with the trans tunnel. It might eliminate all those little stepped places and it might make it easier to fit seats. If it's ever a "Cruiser" the drive might be safer if his eyes are not at headlight level when he's sitting. GPster
Quote from: "GPster"Look at it and see if it might make sense to raise up the whole floor with the trans tunnel. It might eliminate all those little stepped places and it might make it easier to fit seats. If it's ever a "Cruiser" the drive might be safer if his eyes are not at headlight level when he's sitting. GPster
That makes good sense. There was a discussion or two today about all these things. All along I have intended to use the existing contoured seat and tunnel area, just the top of it. It looks like if I raise the pan height overall up about half an inch, so it is level with the top of the vertical pinchwelded flange at the door sill, rather than at the bottom, things will make more sense and be easier. But the body could also maybe just be mounted a bit higher with thicker bushings. Suggestions about hacking the entire floor away braces and all didn't meet resistance. I made it known that I am open to going all the way from the wiper cowl to the tail light panel with new fabbed pieces. Many questions to sort through, for somebody else before I can make my plan. Seats, exhaust, wheels, the works. I need to know a lot more before I go at that so now my focus will switch to patchwork on skins while all that boils down.
I don't have pics up yet but today we rolled it outside (yes, shes a roller now) and had a gander at it with the estimated ride height on plywood 24"wheels With the fixed trunk lid on it. Looks wicked. Biggest news of the day though is I found out a Butler Pontiac engine is on order. Glory be! :shock: :D 8) That pretty much just threw me into orbit about this job.
So don't touch that dial! :arrow:
Here are links to the updated pics from yesterday, scroll down. No time right now for inserting pics in post.
http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/09/catalina-repairs-trunk-lid-part-four.html?m=1
http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/09/catalina-repairs-body-mounting.html?m=1
That car needs Bonneville tail lights.
And tail panel.
Been working on back window rust and letting blog pics slide lately... so pull up a park bench and toss bread crumbs to the hungry pigeons fer a spell. Maybe I can catch up this weekend. :) :arrow:
I can't get over how much rear overhang it has.
Yeah she has serious backside that's for sure. I dumped some big pics of the lower rear window area repair just now
http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/10/catalina-repairs-rear-window-area.html?m=1
Coming soon... pics of the right trunk drop and quarter patch I just fabbed using some of the shop's metal shaping tools that nobody hardly touches. I am severely stoked about that, finally got a chance to make a couple 3 foot parts and it was mighty satisfying.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-o3A2rxiNHWI/WeAdxNDQdlI/AAAAAAAAAhs/791EyNf1V7Mi7ZRmUEd-ln8h5DINY162wCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_21651-20171003_1702041741896261.jpg)
That there is some serious repair ! I have asked this before but here goes again , If I am going to glue in a windshield how deep do I make the recess for the glass and how high do I make the backstop edge ? I hope to be doing this over the winter .
Quote from: "chimp koose"That there is some serious repair ! I have asked this before but here goes again , If I am going to glue in a windshield how deep do I make the recess for the glass and how high do I make the backstop edge ? I hope to be doing this over the winter .
The size would depend entirely on the molding. Whatever trim you use, the height of the backstop would have to be just right to make it look like you want. For mock ups sake I would say figure the adhesive bead to be a half inch high. An average muscle car glass bed is around 3/4" wide and 3/4" deep. This rubber seal type of setup has more like a half inch wide flange and the depth seems to be less than 3/4" also. Its going to require mock up to get your specific dimensions. The dogleg or joggle shape is made by doing the bend not all at once, and supporting one bend with a rod or tube under it while bending the other side the other way. That is done on a brake and usually requires finishing with the lineman pliers or a duck bill vise grip clamp. Or what have you. The bends are made by stretching the outer edge and / or shrinking the inner. With jaws made for that. What I do is always just to duplicate the existing so yours will require lots of mock up and measuring that I don't do when I'm replicating. But the flange width could be anywhere from a half inch to an inch.
thanks , I want to flush mount the windshield in my T coupe . so 3/4 deep 3/4 high should do it ?
Quote from: "chimp koose"thanks , I want to flush mount the windshield in my T coupe . so 3/4 deep 3/4 high should do it ?
Sorry CK, I was probably not quite awake and didn't really get your question answered. I have never done what you are asking me how to do so bear that in mind and allow me to have a makeup pass here.
A- Assuming you wish to use a nearly flush 1990s style very flexible narrow rubber or vinyl molding, select and purchase that.
B- If no molding is desired, just glass almost butted to paint, skip step A plus some others below.
C- Determine height of compressed urethane adhesive bead. I have not researched this. I suggest measuring that thickness on oh, say five vehicles of any type but with bonded glass, add up those five thicknesses and divide by five to establish an average dimension.
OR contact a trusted installer and ask them what height they recommend.
OR see if the directions for the desired adhesive offer any hints or guidelines as to minimum / maximum bead height with glass installed.
OR run with my guesstimate of half an inch.
D- Find thickness of glass to be used. Or just measure any old windshield and keep it in mind as you pattern with cardboard.
E- I am assuming the glass will be flat, and that the finished bed will be in bare steel or coated with epoxy primer only. Also that the width is over four feet. Establish the glass shape and position on the body using cardboard or another panel of thin, rigid, flat material. Assure that your pattern is symmetrical before moving on. You should be able to fold it in the center and have matching edges.
F- Shear or cut a sufficient number of 1 1/2" wide strips of 18 gauge cold rolled steel sheet to have enough length to go around the perimeter of the glass pattern. The bonding surface can be wider than 3/4" but no skinnier than 1/2". Half inch is as small as I have seen work but thats too narrow for my liking. Depends how much gap will be around the glass, too. Let's go with 3/4" for the sake of this discussion and go forth.
E- Use a brake to bend all those to a 90 degree angle lengthwise, right down the center.
F- Bend those flange strips using shrinker jaws to make corners and curves so the strips hug the glass pattern's edge with no gap, but leave the strips long so they overlap at the ends. I suggest trying to make a bottom piece that stops short of the corners, then splitting the upper halves in the center. It would not matter if you made it in four pieces.
G- Once you can slide all your pieces together overlapped but tight against the glass pattern, determine the gap desired around that perimeter by eyeball and tape measure, sliding the flanges each equally away from the pattern. Once you have the gap you like or that the molding requires, create shims to hold your bent strips that consistant distance from the pattern. Now mark the overlaps on your strips and cut away excess then recheck fit against the shims.
H- Weld the flange sections together, butted at the ends. Grind welds, recheck pattern fit with shims centering it.
I- When you determined the approximate shape and position of the new glass on the old body with your pattern, you probably established the body's center line at the roof / cowl area. If not, do so now. Line car center up with pattern center.
J- Finalize glass position by establishing height now. Its centered, just move it to the desired height then double check for same height at bottom corners referencing the next available point down, like a body line or cowl side contour, or perhaps rocker bottom.
H- With final glass position established, outline the pattern on the body.
I- Chop just inside the outline, precisely.
J- Place 1/4" tape along the outside of the leading edge of the perimeter of the fabricated frame. Mark behind the tape and remove it.
OR- just measure and put marks all round.
K- Place new frame into hole in body. It should fit right in, fairly snug. Set depth at line drawn in previous step. Cut away any interference on inner structure so it will go in. Tack frame to body if it won't stay put. Your glass bed is now at 3/4" wide and 1/2" deep but theres a quarter inch of frame sticking out of the body.
L- Using shims created for the gap around the glass, plus shims you create to simulate the bead height you have determined, set pattern into frame and eyeball everything. Honestly, this is kind of flexible because the glass will ultimately be at whatever height the bead is compressed to, but again lets go with a half inch for discussion. If the glass is upright, it's weight won't smush the bead further after you set it but you will need to create setting blocks to put under the bottom to avoid sagging on wet adhesive.
M- Cut glass to match pattern. Buy molding if using one. Get those two things in your hand.
N- Remove frame from body, set on bench. Using all previous shims plus another round of 1/4" shims over your bead height shims, lay the glass in it.
O- Cut a short length of the flush molding and try it out. Add or subtract shims until it looks like the molding will lay flat on the edge of the frame and glass at the same time. Check all around the perimeter.
P- Once that looks good to you, note the thickness of shims required above our 1/2" bead height shims. Wipe off that old frame into body depth setting mark at 1/4" from the frame's outer perimeter and mark a new line at the height of your added shims.
Q- Remove glass and frame, set glass aside safely and trim frame on new line for a corner welded seam.
OR- Use a bead roller to radius that overhanging flange for a nice wide rounded edge around the opening. Create a flat lip all around which sits at the height of your new line. The frame could then be set into the body hole partially and traced around to establish a new, larger cut line on the body. Sink it in and butt weld it. This method also directs heat warpage onto the panel face which is easier to deal with than if a corner welded seam warps.
R- Very important- Lay the completed frame on a flat sheet of 18 gauge and trace inside the window opening. With this piece, patch the new bed to the existing inner structure. Plug welds are fine but use plenty. I like around 1 1/2" spacing for most things but you could have more around the window bed where inner and outer new panels meet. Resistance welding would be nice there, too.
That should make it close enough so that if as usual the molding attaches to the glass, when you press the glass onto the bead, you can fine tune the height of the glass off the bed with hand pressure. Mash until molding sits right and you are done.
Dear Lord, I hope I got that right. Hope the steps make enough sense for the idea to come across. Basically set position, then adjust depth.
Matt, that sounds good to me. I would be nervous to use glass without a molding because of all the rocks on the road in my part of the world. The edge of glass is so fragile that I think the molding would provide some protection from breakage.
Agreed, Bill. Thanx for helping by proofreading too. I would want the glass slightly less than flush also. So an unseen hanging limb or overgrown ditch weed strikes the pillar first. A molding also shades the adhesive a little.
I believe step H has an issue. You would want to trace around the new frame, not the pattern.
Pics! More pics, go see! :D
http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/10/catalina-repairs-r-qtr-part-1.html?m=1
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-warehIIGHA4/WeKVgHUhmiI/AAAAAAAAAkg/YIIcqNdahlQaWKyyBlw8T12kuAPi8cT2wCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_4933-20171012_1702341222136430.jpg)
I admire your patience! I have always been the "first to the finishline guy". There is a tremendous amount of repairs that just take as much time as it takes. As the level of quality of the cars has continued to climb, so has the amount of time necessary to accomplish that. Kudos my friend. :)
Thank you much. :) I am just excited to finally have a situation arise which offers an opportunity to explore metal shaping. These are baby steps but as the boss put it... "a milestone in your metal shaping career!" is represented in that pic. I thought it was just some fun days and enjoyed the task. Its a full flavored job that really satisfies. :P>
Thanks IDJ I will have to read this info a few times before it all sinks in . You are basically saying to figure out the shape of the window at about 1/2" short of each edge of the opening to allow for a molding strip around the glass? It is better to have the glass just shy of the body edge to protect the edges (had not even considered that , thanks !). Determine the glass thickness and compressed adhesive thickness and make a bed for the glass that deep or just slightly deeper (as a finished size ). I do not want to hijack a thread here so I will start a new one as my time for glass approaches . This is the stuff you could put in your book !
After a few reads it might sink in, what I tried to explain. I just didn't feel like I had given a sufficient answer if saying yeah 3/4" x 3/4". Once you make the frame and hole and mock it up with glass, you'll be able to set it up for the desired result. My mind often requires a tortured path to get anywhere but I get there. :?
Today I leveled the frame and body once more, and we decided on just how high the body can sit. There will have to be interruptions in the front pans no matter what. Mashed a finger in the process. But I got to looking at the rotted backs of the fins, and was prompted to pull up this pic-
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-H-HINubVvck/WWqhmYL0FiI/AAAAAAAAAC0/R8LhcgLb3tQ_RSiPxkqOj7uzvkrGQkAgQCEwYBhgL/s1600/IMG_2260.JPG)
Those triangles around the backup lights look cheesy to me. So I played with posterboard, tape, and paint. I figured we could ditch the chrome on the outer fin and cap the pointy points with something welded and even more pointy-er. To embrace the Pontiac pointyness. What do you say about that and making these orange blinkers with motorcycle lenses? Or just with orange bulbs. I assume they are backup lights, but that area houses too much visual drama to be just that. Reverse lights could be easily hidden.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-na6CRlkWXzY/WeU_7vzjj3I/AAAAAAAAAmU/C3mWXSQA9e0yxr4RmaERONspFnmClWHHwCEwYBhgL/s1600/tmp_14364-20171016_145714568915826.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dOVqZK0zuLg/WeVAGMiDAlI/AAAAAAAAAmU/RvyWx_rvA2cqRLiqI_plJWwMt9jgIwoYwCEwYBhgL/s1600/tmp_14364-20171016_1458211525168888.jpg)
Then I started on the left quarter and it's not as bad. There's a crease and wad of lead above my patch though. But no rust. The drop might only get a patch, too. I did already cut the quarter in this pic but it's tough to see. Fits fine.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PYwozZnZB6M/WeVCAcoSv7I/AAAAAAAAAmc/7q5Q-wcA-vgQfBkeBDrpl-QJSZ6zgQMVQCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_14364-20171016_165951220321463.jpg)
It's a Pontiac world. Footloose shot primer on his Trans Am job today and is about to start some lighter work on this GTO.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ztvUGZoJljI/WeVAWSJXSFI/AAAAAAAAAmU/W2pq95LlZhwvyVISWxC0osr1LVgbcb-xACEwYBhgL/s1600/tmp_14364-20171016_1705291757540022.jpg)
Updated pics again today- http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/10/catalina-repairs-l-qtr-part-1.html?m=1
I got my 3 piece patch for the left quarter done and I think I'll just put a new bottom on the drop panel and bend the top flange backward like the other side. If so, I'll make the bead ends look like this on the other side.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gsW0GPaFw8U/WeaUWlNqnbI/AAAAAAAAAnA/QjpYe6zBDQsB9d5HGLpywcusnveZjFMHACEwYBhgL/s1600/tmp_14364-20171017_1634521361354584.jpg)
Humm, on the backup lights on my Chrysler I turned them into additional stop/taillights with red marker light lenses and stop/taillight sockets.
(http://carnut.com/iown/chry/chry012.jpg)
... and your car looks absolutely wicked. 8) :idea: That would work too. They really ought to be flamethrowers though. :shock:
Added 9 more big pics to show progress. :arrow
http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/10/catalina-repairs-l-qtr-part-1.html?m=1
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-brPBSnpeHoI/WeqR27TV3nI/AAAAAAAAAn8/PAceZV__Z1gpQh0_Nv0Y4JsJobO_UXJoQCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_14364-20171020_1255381084409652.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Tl76yLrPNQ0/WeqShPPJrzI/AAAAAAAAAoM/m1078n2Wo5Qne6Q6Aq9szsrjRaWvUEHygCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_14364-20171020_125716300319157.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iZYc8fFQXE4/WeqS9GboVBI/AAAAAAAAAoU/-FPp1JF5lb0nT0sCOvJfljeRICXS2mNFwCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_14364-20171020_1257542131677692.jpg)
I sure like that better than those rust holes. :)
This side sure is a mess above the seam, ain't it? I may end up taking all that lead off. Leaving final trimming at the seam until all straightening is done.
I am now all up off in the dadgum trunk floor, chopping away. Today I bolted a couple sticks of pallet wood to holes out past the tail lights, they go to the floor like table legs for support. Working towards fitment of the new pans and cleaning up tank braces, etc, along with planning new body mounts and giving thought to the new EFI tank. I chopped out the latch brace and fuel neck housing for access. In conclusion of tonight's post, I must say... Pontiac. Chop. Chop Pontiac. Those are favorite words. :D
Dammit, Matt...you work fast!
https://tinyurl.com/y8qmtuuu
Quote from: "58 Yeoman"Dammit, Matt...you work fast!
https://tinyurl.com/y8qmtuuu
I gotta be quicker than flash rust!
Wow, that thing is cherry! It needs the tri power from this car 8) Interesting pics, thanks for showing me that. :)
Almost half of today was spent going over construction ideas, planning of mechanical things, and general build and repair options. A couple of potential modifications surfaced, as did a few details. Probably custom made gas tank, 335 wide rubber out back, 700R4, and 1 x 2" tubing for all new floor bracing throughout, that follows the chassis and locates the pans a bit higher. Existing floor braces will be tossed and the axle hump will be completely different. Looks like I may not even use the trunk pans but they are disappointing anyway. I peeled away all the old pan and laid them in there before I realized I needed to stop and call a meeting of minds. The other two minds are headed to Vegas with the 67 F100 for SEMA soon, but I may have the 389 and a core trans mocked up before that. And so forth. Staying on the "do it right, once" path requires some far thinking.
That all was a lot to digest. I did some patching and plugging rust holes in an unrelated area to use up the rest of the day and allow thoughts to soak in. Plenty of that to go around while we all get our ducks in a row. Speaking of lining things up, I heard about some incoming projects... Model A for new frame and Coyote, Karmann Ghia hot rod from scratch, 70 Chevelle body work and paint, square Bronco with fiberglass tub. :)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eZO3OMykDpM/We_alyYDrsI/AAAAAAAAAo4/qLNX-nWCDW0nJtu7KC51MfeUtFlWF7yUwCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_14364-20171024_112342607037844.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ibDlzTGKvyk/We_asG4rMrI/AAAAAAAAAo8/FBqYLwGgxFwRV9LfzQiiF6X0Y5X0BFKCwCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_14364-20171024_1700551527366943.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E3IkJ8i8Eq8/We_bSjD6i4I/AAAAAAAAApI/h9IcmqHPvS0TEeLoe23KwRxc54yDVUc0QCEwYBhgL/s1600/tmp_14364-20171024_170200619312056.jpg)
Those rust worms should be real fat and healthy as much as they had to eat. Why can't they eat themselves to death???? :)
Quote from: "kb426"Those rust worms should be real fat and healthy as much as they had to eat. Why can't they eat themselves to death???? :)
It's a vicious life cycle. Before they go to bed they look in a mirror then barf, then they are hungry and not quite dead the next day. How does the story go... "In the Catalina, they gathered for the feast. They stabbed it with their steely knives but they could not kill the beast"? :lol:
That all was a lot to digest. I did some patching and plugging rust holes in an unrelated area to use up the rest of the day and allow thoughts to soak in. Plenty of that to go around while we all get our ducks in a row. Speaking of lining things up, I heard about some incoming projects... QuoteModel A for new frame and Coyote
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O Boy- O Boy ....More Idea's... :shock: :idea: :idea: 8) :lol:
Bob... :wink:
We shoehorned one into a 41 Ford truck a couple years ago, that was practice 8)
Speaking of ideas... junior rodder, yours truly, is attempting to position the old 389 and mock up trans loosely, where the Butler chunk plus now a 4L80E will go. So I can be free to make floors. While Gary and Mike go to Vegas. I am gonna need an incubator to hatch ideas that fast! :shock: Right now the engine is in place with my anvil and some wood blocks holding it up and a wrong trans hanging off it. Unfortunately I don't have headers or oil pan, and the frame was ordered for an LS engine so the rack and it's position might not be right for fit. Valve covers are into the firewall with the balancer just behind the rack. Big boy rodding stuff to me! I am excited but as far as skills this is like getting a circus elephant to stand on one ear. :roll:
Tail wagging, engine and trans are in position (on stands) and tubing for floor braces is on hand. 14 gauge though. Hmm.
The 4L80E is a much bigger transmission than a TH400 or 700R4 so I would be hesitant to fab up the floors with a smaller tranny in position. Can you get a core 4L80E tranny from a salvage yard to use as a mock up?
Quote from: "rumrumm"The 4L80E is a much bigger transmission than a TH400 or 700R4 so I would be hesitant to fab up the floors with a smaller tranny in position. QuoteCan you get a core 4L80E tranny from a salvage yard to use as a mock up?
Or ...See if you can borrow an empty case & tailhousing from your local trans shop...Make sure you get a rear mount to locate the case in the correct place ... :idea: :idea: 8)
Bob... :wink:
Quote from: "rumrumm"The 4L80E is a much bigger transmission than a TH400 or 700R4 so I would be hesitant to fab up the floors with a smaller tranny in position. Can you get a core 4L80E tranny from a salvage yard to use as a mock up?
Point taken and previously considered. Unfortunately I have no such luxury. But, I can leave the tunnel and firewall be for now. I got sufficient info from the mock up to proceed, and it will be a week and a half before I can even complain more about not having stuff. I had intended to put up a fuss but realize the thing to do is stay quiet and build something nobody can argue with. :idea: :)
Quote from: "UGLY OLDS"Quote from: "rumrumm"The 4L80E is a much bigger transmission than a TH400 or 700R4 so I would be hesitant to fab up the floors with a smaller tranny in position. QuoteCan you get a core 4L80E tranny from a salvage yard to use as a mock up?
Or ...See if you can borrow an empty case & tailhousing from your local trans shop...Make sure you get a rear mount to locate the case in the correct place ... :idea: :idea: 8)
Bob... :wink:
Trouble is, Bob, that the BOP bolt pattern is not on the back of this block, its on the bell piece of the trans. Best we could do with what we had was hang a 700R by one bolt. There is a BOP TH350 in the house and I have a 74 400 block I could tote up there... but why? If they think I can do this with that, I must be able to. Thats the way my life works, I try to exist on what other people think I ought to be able to. If I do so without complaint, I'll be allowed to continue. :idea: Given sufficient time, I usually comply. :arrow:
I scribbled some marks on stuff and sat the engine / trans aside then sat the body on unibody clamps and lowered the chassis. Ready to chop out everything horizontal and then some. From stem to stern, the floor will end up an inch or so higher than it was.
You guys know I can fix and patch stuff. The measuring skills I brought from crash fixing, you've never really seen. I am confident but can imagine how that excuse for engine placement is weak in your eyes. It was in mine too. Hopefully I just won't get into too much more trouble. :)
Thank you two for speaking up, your experienced eyes are my trapeze net.
I found this. Maybe it will answer enough questions that you won't have any surprises.
http://www.tciauto.com/tc/trans-dim/
Thanks, KB. I was looking at that site this morning. Concluded that I'm on my own already as far as that goes :) I am a fair hand at extrapolation but nothing beats the real thing for mock up. So I treated it with a just amount of sincerity.
To add to the illusion, be aware that the chassis was ordered for an LS, now it's getting a Ponch. The rack is my fore /aft decider but I don't know if it has the right arrangement. :roll:
Thirsty to see? Here :T) );b(
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Raise the front of the engine enough that the crank pulley clears the rack by about 5/8" and move it forward a inch or two. Then level the carbs from that point. I think you will find that things fit better.
As KB said you will find the 4L80 is much larger, and larger further back. So you might wait until the engine and trans are in place to design the hump.
I am sure you are aware that any trans after 63 will not bolt to the 59 engine even though the bolt pattern looks right. The bolt holes are a different size, 7/16" VS 3/8", and the flange offset is different. So if you use that block to mock it up, the trans location will be a bit different.
Quote from: "enjenjo"Raise the front of the engine enough that the crank pulley clears the rack by about 5/8" and move it forward a inch or two. Then level the carbs from that point. I think you will find that things fit better.
Tried that first thing. Thanks for whipping in. It has to be this low to aim a driveshaft at the pathway in the frame. But remember what I said about the rack / mounting and wrong trans. This pulley measures 7" and I think the Butler mill will probably have a larger kind. Honestly if I can get the old floors and braces all out, make my braces and enough pan to hold it all together, then position my roughed in floor assembly in a somewhat adjustable manner with screws... that should prompt action and get parts on the way. Theres a long wait still ahead for the engine, and I think I can leave the front part / tunnel unfinished enough so that I don't work backwards too much.
One other item on a 4L80 trans in the tunnel area: Is the oil cooler fitting locations. On 1997 & newer 4L80, the return cooler line is in the middle of the case on passenger side.
Early 4L80 has both cooler fitting near bell housing area. 1997 & up have 1 fitting up front , 1 fitting near mid case.
Requires a special fitting at the center cooler line location for proper lubrication on 1997 & newer 4L80
Thanks, gents. 8) I did not know about the early Pontiac differences, nor am I familiar with OD transmissions at all. My experience has been with 67-74 mostly, and thats the years most any Pontiac guy wants so there has been no need to research it. I am just going at it as heres a motor and trans. Might as well be a 289 and C6 as far as I am concerned. The shape of the new frame dictates where the floor has to be, and that whole area from the front seat forward can be last to finish. Trunk and the rest should keep me busy and buy time for components to arrive. I'll just leave all the room I can up front and concentrate on mating frame rails and rockers!
So far, so good.
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Boy, Matt, in that flintstone car you have a lot of room for an engine and trans. :) I'm sure you have a plan that will be good to watch unfold. It sure would be nice if you had the engine and trans there to measure from. I tend to make things to tight and suffer after that. Be better than me. LOL
Do you guys think I could remove the rotisserie bracing while the floor is under construction, based on what you see?
Quote from: "idrivejunk"Thanks, gents. 8) I did not know about the early Pontiac differences, nor am I familiar with OD transmissions at all. My experience has been with 67-74 mostly, and thats the years most any Pontiac guy wants so there has been no need to research it. I am just going at it as heres a motor and trans. Might as well be a 289 and C6 as far as I am concerned. The shape of the new frame dictates where the floor has to be, and that whole area from the front seat forward can be last to finish. Trunk and the rest should keep me busy and buy time for components to arrive. I'll just leave all the room I can up front and concentrate on mating frame rails and rockers!
I would suggest a C4 with a 289 engine. The C6 uses a huge amount of power to operate & are very heavy.
C4 is a great automatic transmittin. Compact. Will take a punishment when built properly
Quote from: "idrivejunk"Do you guys think I could remove the rotisserie bracing while the floor is under construction, based on what you see?
Seems like the car would fold up a bit with bracing remeoved.
Building the floor with bracing still in place. Will be a "pita "
Thanks for the replies, Tony. :)
289/C6 IS kinda like saying 350/TH400 isn't it? :lol: How about 440/727? :idea: The point is anything would be as much use as what I have.
Kinda wishing now that I had not suggested such elaborate bracing. Once while climbing through it, I rested part of my weight on a rocker. I reluctantly concur with your assessment. It is about to be even more floppy.
I did get one new brace zapped in, in the interest of anti-folding. Pretty much have a clear shot at the whole deal now, so there are thinking and fabbing days ahead. The Catalina section of my brain is encountering idea flurries and I hope to somehow fish order from an ocean of chaos. Rice boy at work said "I hope you know what you're doing with that floor!". I sez "I hope you know what you're doing with that sandpaper!". Durn paper sliders, can't live with em, can't live without em. :roll:
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I would guess that the only time there is too much bracing is when it's in the way of more work. :) Where the front section meets the main rails, is the front 1.5 x 4 meeting 2 x 4 tubing?
Quote from: "kb426"I would guess that the only time there is too much bracing is when it's in the way of more work. :) Where the front section meets the main rails, is the front 1.5 x 4 meeting 2 x 4 tubing?
This page should answer that and keep me from goofing. You may notice some of the alterations made for our Pontiac if you study the pics.
https://www.artmorrison.com/59-64chev.php
I trust you guys to nudge the helm if I am veering toward the ditch, but my first floor brace experiment appears fruitful. I just went where it led me and started slicing tubing on one face and bending it to roughly follow the frame over the axle by trapping the tube in a place in our frame rack and applying my weight. I did experiment with bending tubing in both fat and skinny directions but that wasn't gonna make the curves. I learned a lot about this technique from this piece but it took a whole day. The other side may turn out nicer. Reckon this is how I'll do the humps too. I intend to attach the side of this brace directly to the wheelhouse and lay pan on top. The entire brace will be outboard of the rail and 2 or 3 mounts will be along this piece. It's made of 14 gauge 1x2". Fun to weld thick stuff, I rarely get to do that.
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It's mate turned out smoother and almost matches, plus only took 2 or 3 hours to make. I made a fill in patch on the right wheelhouse and screwed the firdt one in place and suddenly the rear half of this project began to fall in place mentally. The hard part is overwith as far as I am concerned. The front half is also imagined and can be simple plus remain adjustable until more unknown components of the build are specified such as seating and eng/trans, exhaust, tank, etc. Here are what pics I took. The axle hump area should come together fairly quick then I'll move to the back seat area.
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Hey guys, question for all of you...
Any thoughts on converting from the original trunk seal arrangement to just a flat surface with a taped on, D shaped bulk weatherstrip :?: Imagine just boxing the channel so its flat. I'd chop out the crud of course.
It's an idea that deletes much intricate labor, looks better, and is likely to seal better. Double seals could even be used, one wide strip at the original location, then a smaller one at or in the panel gap. Like I set the 33 up for, where the seal is what you see in the gap like fancy new cars.
:?: :idea: :?: :idea: :?: :idea:
My brain says yes yes because trunk gutters are trashed and I can't find an oversight in my thought. Can you? It will never see much, if any, rain.
Sounds like a slick alternative to the original. I don't know why that wouldn't work.
Matt, my only thought on the flat flange is it might need a 90 degree lip to add rigidity. I wouldn't care if it was down or up. I know they sell 1/2 x 1" rectangle tubing. I would be tempted to build the lip out of that. With what little exp. I have with d shaped stripping, it takes quit a bit or pressure to collapse it some over several feet. I would be concerned that an unsupported lip might not seal uniformly. If you were to use 1/8" thick strap, that might not be an issue. Lots of variables to consider.
I like your floor bracing idea , that should look good from under the car as well .
Rum and KB, we will come back to the seal but we can continue tossing ideas 'round the table. :idea: :arrow: :) Considering revised channel designs because it does need thick cushy solid rubber. Indeed there is much to consider.
CK, Thank you sir! I figure somebody might peek but they will never see the sides of those curved rails.
For some visual progress I put an hour or so at the end of today into roughing out a passenger floor support structure. This is a first draft. Ran out of tubing but have the foundation. I plan to lay the seat mount area of the old pan in it's original spot but not height-wise. These braces line up with ones on the frame center and should be workable by laying wedge sliced tubing sections on top of each rib to meet the pan. Hopefully seat bolt locations will fall next to or between ribs.
I plan to connect front bracing to the hump bracing with a corner / mount piece and tie that to the B pillar area of the rocker. The hump brace side rails are in place nice and high but almost all the horizontal members are crooked in the pics. The frame is also very crooked on the stands. Aside from those curved rails which have a couple screws in them, everything is only approximately positioned. Everything can float until components are in and body position is final. The tunnel section of the floor can be made to fit after pans are in, and the toe board body mount and firewall can be completed with powertrain in place. I have a plan for most of it.
In the trunk, as you see I am toying with just connecting to the existing braces behind the wheelhouses. If the stock tank braces will work, I'll just cut the center from the new long crossbar and probably hook them right to that next cross bar. Again, everything can float so far, no commitment. That first bar I stuck onto the tray braces is crooked and will go away because the axle area pan-to-rear seat area pan joint will serve as one. You'll see. I hesitate to but may suggest completely removing the stock wheelhouses which need patches in half the places they connect, and repairing the quarter lips with no big cuts then reinstalling them.
Words, words, words.... pictures! :D
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On my list of future projects is installing a frame under a unibody. I haven't thought about it much so this will be of interest to me. :)
I often ponder the opposite... lightening my 69 GP by making it a unibody. Even more often I ponder reclocking the GTP engine by three hours, going stick, and hanging a Camaro or Mustang back half. :idea: Heck might as well have a V8. Both my ideas may be offensive to the vehicle's spirit. One would blend into traffic, one would not but could be out there more.
Anyway yep, my Cat floor may be lighter than stock but the frame sure ain't!
Something you might consider, the floor doesn't have to be level. Most of them angle down from the hump to the rocker panel.
Quote from: "enjenjo"Something you might consider, the floor doesn't have to be level. Most of them angle down from the hump to the rocker panel.
That is why I want to begin doing pans by laying the seat section of the old one down there, and why I mentioned adding wedges on top of these braces, to match new brace to old pan. So these ribs can be flat except on top, and I can reuse the old seat section of the pan itself. But chances are, that seat mount section will sit half an inch higher than it did. I'll try to keep the edge drop off minimal and slope it down out past the seat.
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:)
Quote from: "kb426":)
Somebody walked up with a 335 tire, mercilessly tried to force it into a wheelwell, and now I gotta tub it. That is, move wheelhouses in to just outside trunk hinges. That crusty tail panel is fixed now, pics later.
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8) nice work matt
Interesting stuff as always. Looking at your pics it reminds me of an old thread which I still have bookmarked from when you were pretty new around here. It was about considering where to strengthen a body and where to leave it weaker just in case of an accident. Looks like your floor braces are made to transfer side impact loads into the frame to keep intruders out of the passenger compartment.
Thanks, guys. 8)
Jaybee, the braces will also connect over the tunnel like the old ones and there will probably be some body mounts in the front passenger area that it did not have before. So the floor and rockers might withstand a T-bone hit better. The doors are still just wide open unsupported skins though, 50's style. By the way, the rearmost brace on those passenger floor supports will move, because when I tentatively placed them I had forgotten to consider the rear footwells.
Some proposed tire sizes are being tossed about at the moment, and I currently believe a 12" wide wheel with 5 1/2" back space will put a 335/30R20 in the stock well without widening but with some clearance modification to the front third of inner and outer wheelhouses.
Here is the latest update, 15 pics of repairs to the roof rear edge. Still working on other updates. Posting is murder with only a phone, no PC. Please bear with me.
http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/11/catalina-repairs-rear-window-area-upper.html?m=1
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Trying to stay more caught up on pics... now onward to the next area.
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I believe that trunk rail will be nice. :)
Quote from: "kb426"I believe that truck rail will be nice. :)
I am hoping I can work with it. The bead roller is my new best friend. :D
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Less rust is a good plan. :)
Only a few more weeks of this and it will be worth building! :) :?
With those long patches made, for the front section of the trunk weatherstrip channel, I took the opportunity to backtrack for half a day and do some badly needed warpage straightening from the nearby window bed repair.
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Then I went back to nailing down the fit of the pieces. Ready to start tacking it together and planning to check it with the lid on before final welding.
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Lots of hours in that trunk rail. :)
Must have been pine needles.
Quote from: "kb426"Lots of hours in that trunk rail. :)
What do you reckon a fair number would be?
I only got in about 15 minutes worth Friday but the rust holes in the right rear corner of the channel are fixed now, too. And that one spot on the fin. :)
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Matt, I have no idea about time. I made that statement based upon a guess of how long it would take old & slow. :) I see you have more white marks. How much is left?
I sure like those low rider wheels. :)
Aw I know what you mean, any comment beats none. :) I don't have any idea either. The other marks around the wheels may or may not reflect reality but I just don't want to cut there yet, for a couple reasons. As far as whats left, other side of the channel may not need that much fix. I have a rocker and will use part of it at the right rocker to quarter seam area, maybe a foot of the face of it. After that, weld up the drops and rear lower qtr patches. That will leave only the wheel opening lip repairs of quarters and outer wheelhouses to go, as far as rust repair. The reason for me leaving the lips until last is that I have the thought to not cut a section out of the quarters, but to work from the backside on the rotisserie with the wheelhouse lip gone. That is a possibility if I wait until theres floors in place. Plus with tire and wheel fitment still up in the air, it leaves more options open. Does not matter to me if the wheel lip repairs are last before paint shop.
By the way, the proposed rear tire size is currently 335/30R20, and I figure that just fits within the stock well width on a 12" rim with 5-1/2" of back space... but will require modification of the front third of the inner and outer wells. The wood wheels are 24" and those are 28" diameter so the car will raise up a little but those high angle pics make it look like a hovercraft. Ha, it had skirts when it came in.
Hey um... Murray Pfaff did front and back renderings of this build with some imaginary mods... do you guys think its legality wise OK for me to put those up here?
In regard to your question of how long your trunk repair took I will make a comment .With the right client who understands , the amount of time to make something from nothing doesn't matter when the results are what matters . It is not fair to compare repair time spent on a project that has no repair panels available to one that does , no matter how poor the replacement parts may be . I spent a lot of my machining career doing repair work that other shops would refuse . Repaired a lot of unobtanium in my time .Some times I had to reverse engineer the part before making a new one . Quite often a person tries to think ahead and make the part better/stronger/more easily maintained than original . In other cases the application has changed (as in your non stock tire size change )and a straight forward repair is thrown a curve . Some people will never understand that the most important part of a custom job is the time spent planning what you are to do before you start cutting . In your line of work , there are likely folks who buy a disaster and freak out when the proper repairs put the value upside down . I hope your employer is able to filter that type out or deal with them and just let you do what you do . Rant over.
CK, that is exactly how that works and at this point I just go where it leads me. The signs say that will do. :D :wink:
Today was rotten as far as my production but there are crew changes happening and that always creates a hubub. Two full timers out, two part timers in.
The gutter is all done except to grind one spot and all the tail panel stuff will be in an hour's work or so.
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I laid the moldings over that lower rear window area and gee whiz it looks a lot better with the molding on. Kinda thought it might.
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A box o body mounts, rear bumper and more tubing have been gathered. Funner times approacheth...
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Well phooey, I left out a couple...
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Got the body sitting on 6 of 8 body mounts right now, finishing up the last pair of frame brackets for the rear body and still using my temporary adjustable ones up front. Still a long way from being nailed down but flooring efforts should begin soon over here at Fifty & Sore. :)
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Got the body sitting on mounts all around and am getting a plan together for the floor. Made this long back seat pan support today. Theres 7"+ of vertical driveshaft room as it stands.
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Got a start on rear floor pans to match the aftermarket fronts today, and trimmed / screwed the trunk pans in place to see what I got. An appropriate seat from our bag o trix appeared just in time to be potentially useful for mockup.
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An undamaged crate arrived late today... called ENGINE-FREIGHT on the slip. :-o
Quote from: "idrivejunk"An undamaged crate arrived late today... called ENGINE-FREIGHT on the slip. :-o
It was for some danged ol Ford :roll: :oops: :evil: Down, boy.
Quote from: "idrivejunk"Quote from: "idrivejunk"An undamaged crate arrived late today... called ENGINE-FREIGHT on the slip. :-o
It was for some danged ol Ford :roll: :oops: :evil: Down, boy.
You got Franks engine delivered to you :?: :?: :?: :? :shock:
Bob.. :wink:
A Pontiac mill is an upgrade to ANYthing :!: But keep them coyote paws offa my big enjun. :wink: Maybe its for the blue Model A.
That was the most cleverest retort I could muster. Is it Christmas yet? Hey I got a card from my Dad today with a GTO sticker on the envelope. Couple years back, Mom made me pillowcases from some cloth printed with GTOs. They are catching on! More pillow time and Pontiac dreams are just what I need. Perhaps this weekend I will get the crayons and shopping bags out and make presents for the family. Its payday and theres $25 for gas and groceries.
Anyway... when I lay eyes on the Butler gem, I plan to "take a moment" and imagine its mine. Oh glory be. :idea:
On a less glorious note... over recent weekends I have tried to come up with ways to make this car look better and finish sooner. Have sketched a few ideas. The body mods proposed on the rendering aren't appealing to me much. Chopping the tips off the back bumper ends and using the resulting vertical slot as exhaust outlets, painting the bottom halves of the bumpers, round park lights, and "eyeblack" ducts to nowhere below raised headlights.
Here is a link to an article about one just like this, to stare at:
http://www.oldcarsweekly.com/car-of-the-week/17280
If it were yours, what would you shave / reshape / ditch / swap / add? No getting around the low stance and 20s, I'm talking bodywork and not adding cost but simplifying effectively. Frank is already in with "Needs Bonneville tail lights", whats your take?
If you have thoughts I would like to hear them. I may also want to discuss them though, and I promise to not be wordy or snotty. I could use some input if you have time and inclination to offer. :)
Here are the wheels:
http://www.billetspecialties.com/wheels/vintage-series/bonneville-extreme-s/
Hey...Why mess with success :?: Ditch the emblems & bling....Get rid of the wonky side trim...It looks like the piece they started with was too long so they bent it back towards the front... :? :oops: :lol:
The car has some really neat lines ...Why mess with them :?: :roll:
Want to REALLY start them guessing :?:
'59 Bonneville WAGON taillights ...... :idea: :shock:
Bob.. :wink:
Well, I'll be, it looks like they used Catalina tails on Bonne wagons? Looks like it from here :?
I have wondered if a pair of pointy 33-6 Ford lenses hanging outta the Cat bezels could be a thing.
Things that bother me are the cheesy backup light area trim pieces and the rear bumper wraparound part, in that area.
I want to cut the bumper bottoms off and create similarly shaped but less clunky looking sheetmetal panels (Biscayne is that way) that could fine tune the shape of the car and reduce the amount of plating needed while giving us more cool exhaust outlet and park lamp options. Smplifying the build as well as the look is the goal.
I thought of having the exhaust exit at the hook in the side molding. Nah. Shaving it throws up a dog dished stripper look, to me. My current thoughts on side molding is to replace the hook section with a different tip or to extend it all the way down following the big line.
I agree the lines are absolutely wicked... I just fear that some hokey design areas and costume jewelry that go on it could take away from that.
Would it look trick if... no matter which body color... everything above the belt moldings were gloss black? In the right light, it might look like a smoked George Jetson's ride type dome. :roll: :shock:
I have been editing a photo to attempt to convey some of my thoughts but that is a tough job for me. If I finish something I'll show it. Meanwhile, speak up gents. 8)
I did look around at cat head tail light lenses thinking maybe they could be instead of backup lights..... naaahhhh :idea: :lol:
Just like anything else, throwing out several rough ideas quickly then thinking through each later seems to work best for me. Unless they all suck. Sometimes thats the case, like now.
I would lose the chrome trim on top of the front fenders and on the front of the hood--a lot cleaner look. No fender skirts, though!
Quote from: "rumrumm"I would lose the chrome trim on top of the front fenders and on the front of the hood--a lot cleaner look. No fender skirts, though!
Thank you. Yes the fender ornaments I would like to see gone! I don't know if I could stand to lose the arrowhead being a Pontiac man but if it looks bad and they are not sold, must lose it. Definitely no skirts.
I had wrong info about the engine that was ordered, it was not all aluminum. Block is iron and its 467 cubic inches, thats the newest hearsay. I just want to say its here! It has D-port Eddy heads. Thats all I've got for now.
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No more Flintstones! Kool. :)
I see a Hughes Performance sticker on that 4L80 trans
looks like you have been busy
Quote from: "kb426"No more Flintstones! Kool. :)
I still gotta make braces for the floor, my initial attempts were for a flat floor and won't work. Everyone agreed that keeping the tilt of the seat mount area of the floor is best. I have left adding seat belt mounts until last since I don't know what seats, tracks, or belts will be used. The floor rearward from my new pan is still open because no wheel / tire yet. The tunnel section that remains open can be made once engine and trans are in and headers are bought and installed. I plan to butt weld all the pieces of the big pan together with it out of the car and try to get some decent welds so it isn't a grinding nightmare.
Quote from: "Crosley"I see a Hughes Performance sticker on that 4L80 trans
Correct.
Quote from: "chimp koose"looks like you have been busy
Somewhere between tortise and hare. Making the big pan was a delight, and I am now a big fan of the e-wheel and bead roller. An abundance of mistakes were made and can be seen if you look, but I did not make any of the pieces twice and I don't think the floor will stand out as an obviously fabricated part.
Front seat supports are made but I still have to make the ends where they connect to the rockers. Where you see the flat strap going across, thats the rear of the front seat and I plan to add body mounts or possibly just cushions there. My tubing will be notched on top so angled plates can be sandwiched in between it and the pans at seat mount points, which will be rearward tabs spacing the bolts at 15" front to rear. I won't finalize any seat belt mounts until I can at least toss that GTO seat in.
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Oh yeah... and the tubing is 14 gauge, center sections are 16, pan is 18. I am thinking maybe 3/16" plate at seat and belt mounts. Do you guys think those supports look like enough? :?:
Here is a wider shot, from a less bewildering IDJ-angle. Play like the car is greasy side up and you are standing on the axle. Aftermarket front pans start at that farthest brace but everything in this pic is from scratch. And growing. :arrow:
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A I began welding something didn't feel right so I made ends for the floor supports and plopped the whole mess in the car. Boy am I glad! A dab of whittling, perhaps a nip or tuck, and the supports are now squared with the pan floating over the top. I'll get it together, and I expected tailoring. Seat tryout soon, I hope. So in other news, the engine and trans might be placed tomorrow. So that would be fine timing, by me. :D
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T'was a happy IDJ day. :D Engine and trans are in position and just in time. Somewhere during the hubub, my brain excreted it's full mental picture of the floor bracing layout. Finally, something concrete! Now I can dismiss my left hemisphere and rest it while the right half guides my hands. Imagining is hard work in some cases, and in this case I won't do much more of that until I see at least one wheel and tire. Rather than explain the floor bracing thought process, I'll say that the tunnel needs to be higher and just let you watch it develop soap opera style. Thanks for checking in, gents.
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Might have to work on something else for a couple days :( but had good momentum today. The cabin floor brace looks good to me now, and I only forgot to tack one piece at the right front. What I am gonna do here is separate the existing driveshaft tunnel floor section from the footwell and rear vertical section of the pan, and attach the revised tunnel with plug welds to the inward face of the long, frame hugging brace. The rear pans will attach, also with plug welds, to the outward face of that tube. Makes it simple to set each footwell perfectly with little fuss and eliminates yards of stitching. Yay!
The H thing at the front seat will lose those middle bars but for now they stay. Right now I would be OK with removing the door bracing to fit up the pan.
You can see in the pics where at the front I'll tie into the stock body mount bracket with a tab. In case you are wondering why the inner rockers, top of frame, and top of bracing are all near flush... except that dangling right front bar and the rear of front seat bar... its because the low part of the tunnel will pop up just outside the frame. And FYI yes I will still use the fancy center I made for the front seat bolt brace, I'll just elevate it. Did I mention that this is funner than a barrel of monkeys? :D
In this first pic you see the front tie-in spot, the loose bar I left, and the bottleneck for exhaust. Unfortunately we recieved wrong headers but its obvious that a different trans mount arrangement is needed for the exhaust to run down low and through the tunnel next to the trans pan flange. I have my own idea but will see what turns out.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-D7Z_hy_ogxU/WmqAec0iqZI/AAAAAAAABEU/6oT92sJa0FEBbvpF0oI-zQMumU-0HIbJQCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_2449-20180125_165257545269879.jpg)
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I've already figured out the trans mount. Now I want to see how you are going to do it. :D
Quote from: "enjenjo"I've already figured out the trans mount. Now I want to see how you are going to do it. :D
Pull up a lawn chair and sit a spell, Frank. :T) We can both watch and see what the original Footloose comes up with. Generally speaking, his is the chassis department. Heres your beverage. So now... I say the mount has to attach on top of the rail. Or a slice of heavy tubing welded to each rail, with a bar across between them perhaps. Mind if I smoke? Where is everybody? :) :P>
You are on a similar track to me. A strap welded across the top of the rails, with some small gussets on the end. And a U shaped bracket that bolts to it from the bottom with four bolts.
Yes, a U shape :D A very rigid one. Theres a big harness connector on the driver's side to make matters worse. What stinks is the wrong headers... part numbers jive but only the outside bolts line up. I think its a snafu and the collectors were super low. But I believe I have seen enough to complete the floor and tunnel.
QuoteWhere is everybody? :) :P>
[/quote]
I'm here ...Watching & learning & bumping my head in the shop .... :shock: :roll:
Bob... :wink:
You're probably tired. Go ahead and take a nap everyone. Do you all have your blanket? :) Bob, if you'll please switch off the lights... chances are it will still be more pics of the same floor when you wake up. :roll: I'll speak softly. At the end of rest period, you boys in the back row each come to my desk and get these freshly mimeographed pop quiz sheets, then please pass them out as you return to your seats.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
In this slide, the left rear foot well and driver's seat pan are the only pieces in their final position. The tunnel and front pans are laying loose.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-08kQanXKMzo/WmydCLI4TsI/AAAAAAAABFE/oDcZ7KsSlhodtSnRqqJAk26FFxiaxwcmgCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_11927-20180126_1302261935149402.jpg)
In this pic, you can see how the tunnel section has been separated and elevated in front. The fancy front center brace piece is still under there, just moved back. Front of tunnel is trimmed back as well. You can see how re-bending the outer edges of the tunnel will allow stuffing it between the long brace rails. The center rear section of the pan and brace can easily be altered if driveshaft top clearance is insufficient. I might just re-make the tunnel so it will be one piece, once it's exact shape is established.
Pieces that could potentially be the trans mount were seen around the front of the car, and it looks as though our great man is thinking alike. Horseshoe.
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So yeah, Friday half day and half done refining pan fit. Seat brackets seen here are also laying loose but are approximately positioned. Now, the reason why running exhaust down the middle of the frame makes me frown becomes apparent. I have crummy posture but dang near every car I've had points the column at my left shoulder. Centering that GTO seat (16" wide at bolts) in my 18" wide seat flat points the column at the right shoulder and has the seat about hitting the door, I think. So an offset plate between seat and just the inner bracket might be a solution for moving the seat and outer bracket inward. In the pic, brackets are 16" apart with the outer about an inch closer to the rocker than the stock bench seat bolt holes.
Seat belt mounts and seat bolt plates are not yet in place. Among other things yet to consider are some sort of console bracketry and a good spacious conduit area for wiring inside the passenger compartment, and provisions for plumbing underneath it.
Watch your noggin on that jungle gym.
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:idea:
class?
:x :? :)
Class?!
:shock:
CLAAAAASS :?: :!: :?:
Heads up :arrow:
:lol: :D
Today we begin a safety project... seat belt mounts. Pretend you are sitting in the right rear seat and look down at why you keep stubbing the toes of your right foot when you kick the front seat. Its this floor hump where the seatbelt retractor is located. Oh and while you're at it, pretend you are in a car that has ever had seatbelts. :-o :wink:
This right front corner of the right rear footwell was a tacked and sliced mess, and I stared at it until aha. Then I got out a fresh sheet of construction paper and blunt scissors and a broke crayon... no wait it was posterboard, stabby cheap scissors and a felt tip. Fold, cut, crease, tear, tab A, slot B, and I was practicing making Valentines until time to transfer a pattern to metal. Did that, then jawed a spell with Mr. Vise Andrill and Dr Drillscrew who told me to hold it down.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WOg_fq6zcxU/Wm_VLQsxtAI/AAAAAAAABFk/5LHUCiJOo_UWWg-pVML825c0iwI6G5NLgCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_15590-20180129_153703964347872.jpg)
Then Miss Terna Screwloose showed up and promptly revealed her tubes.
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Me and her friend Sandy had a blast, tacking, and screwing. This pic shows how the mount box becomes part of the front seat pan, just capping the area but also simplifying the junction where things meet. The footwell will butt (no weld, sealer) to the the bottom and sides of the seat belt extension's tubing, and this funky 18 gauge piece caps the area.
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I got started on the other side. The square plate at the bolt is 3/16". I have a rough plan for the inside belt mounts but it happens with the floor braces out. I did some seat and bracket figuring also... the column won't be able to point straight at the center of the seat, quite. Had a youngun wrap up the column and drag out the GTO driver's seat so when I get ready to remove the roto bracing I don't have to hunt that stuff. Theres the bell, kids. Now, don't run, and don't forget your homework assignments.
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Me and Ferris took the day off. :)
Quote from: "kb426"Me and Ferris took the day off. :)
Isn't that the guy with REALLY big wheels?
Ya, but he knows all the hot chicks. :)
Well even if he is popular around the incubator, don't let him jack up your ride. :wink:
I sat in the Cat today, no hat. But in the Cat I did sat. Even propped the column on a knee and foot and made racy Pontiac revving and peeling out noises. :lol: It fishtails and shifts a lot, I know from experience now. 8)
I made up the driver's side outer belt mount today. Due to the approximate nature of the angle at which the seat pans and foot wells join, the cover piece doesn't quite match the shape of the other. But its neater and the parts that count match. Added gussets the seat belt extensions on both sides with thick stuff, then I screwed everything that is fitted back on, cut out the rotisserie bracing, and tossed these large but funky seats in loosely. Then I played car at 2 til 5. Seat position is confirmed as a hurdle, potential solutions to come. Meanwhile there was visible engine mount progress.
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Today was more mental than visual. I am prepared to notch the frame for seat clearance. Its the only way to get the required seating position with buckets over this frame. I knew this when I laid eyes on the frame but had to take it this far before speaking it so that it could be believed. It worked! :)
Matt, I looked at the beginning and didn't see who made the frame. Did I miss that or did you not say?
Its a custom ordered for the Pontiac one of these:
https://artmorrison.com/59-64chev.php
I have explanatory images but don't know if I can find time to post em tonite. In order to center the column to the seat, no matter what bucket seat is used, the right rear corner of the seat HAS to be inside the frame rail, no amount of body lifting is enough. I'd really like to be armed with more input on my plan when I go in tomorrow so I'll try to post pics in case somebody has feedback. The deal is that I'll need to nip out a small area of the junction where the 3x4" middle rail sections meet the 2x4", and it is not recommended that we alter any of their welds. Since I am a former crash man fabbing his first floor, notching the frame is tough to swallow. But I am confident. I do wish this had been known (like maybe a footnote about bench only) before the "What kind of interior do you want?" happened but don't want to suggest backing up, nor does anyone else. I am duly apprehensive about proceeding without the actual seats but at the same time I know I have figured the maximum notch I'm willing to go with and believe it will be just enough, and that just about any seat will need same although these are fairly big. The right rear seat corner will have an upright stud on a heavy plate coming from the floor bracing tucked into the rail notch, and I figured 4" behind that for the seat corner to go back past the bolt.
How big is "nip" ?
Quote from: "kb426"How big is "nip" ?
Thanx for asking, I value your opinion.
See the bright tubing and big weld in this foreground? Body is lifted an inch or more in pic.
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Go around to drivers side. This was my attempt to stay on top of the frsme but nowhere near enough headroom or rearward travel.
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Look at that back corner of the front frame where it meets the middle part. Sharpie rectangle on top. The notch is wedge shaped, following the seat angle about 16" back at which point it will be half of the 4" rail height. So 16 long, two inches in, and two down but wedge shaped and closed up with that 3/16" thick angle stuff laying on the floor.
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Is there enough room in the trans tunnel to run another 2x4 rail against the inside edge to replace the width of material removed from the outside from say 6" or so ahead and behind the incision ? As that narrow section( outside frame rail to outside frame rail ) of frame is bearing all the torsional twist of the drive line it probably needs the cross sectional area it currently has . This may require a reroute of exhaust . Might also be a good time for the client to be seated in the car for a fitting . Maybe he likes to sit with the seat leaned back more and problem avoided ?
I am looking at the seat and wondering if there is a way to move the seat tracks up , forward and inside the body of the seat ? Could the tracks also be re positioned to horizontal so the seat could slide forward and back without changing its height . I bought a set of seat sliders from speedway motors that were relatively thin that one might be able to do that with . I would want to see the actual seats that were going into the car before cutting into the frame . I have the luxury of being able to walk away from a project and mull it over for a while or attend to something else on it while I dream up a solution . I am not in a position that requires daily progress such as yours . I hope I am being helpful . I also hope I am not sounding at all critical of your situation as that is not my intent .
Quote from: "chimp koose"Is there enough room in the trans tunnel to run another 2x4 rail against the inside edge to replace the width of material removed from the outside from say 6" or so ahead and behind the incision ? As that narrow section( outside frame rail to outside frame rail ) of frame is bearing all the torsional twist of the drive line it probably needs the cross sectional area it currently has . This may require a reroute of exhaust . Might also be a good time for the client to be seated in the car for a fitting . Maybe he likes to sit with the seat leaned back more and problem avoided ?
No room between the rails to add another rail. Exhaust is even going to be difficult with the chosen trans and frame. The seat conflict seems difficult to illustrate clearly. The center section of the frame is 3x4" tubing. The customer has only communicated via email and / or phone, none of us have met the person. But I agree he needs to sit in it... only I need a proper seat position to offer or theres nothing for him to try out. Any bucket seat (seat, not just bracket) has to enter the space occupied by the rail to be anywhere near centered to the column. I am of the same opinion about waiting to cut, BUT... a bench seat is the only way to avoid the notching, and ANY bucket seat will require the notch. So here we are, and your input is just fine, its what I'm looking for. :)
Quote from: "chimp koose"I am looking at the seat and wondering if there is a way to move the seat tracks up , forward and inside the body of the seat ? Could the tracks also be re positioned to horizontal so the seat could slide forward and back without changing its height . I bought a set of seat sliders from speedway motors that were relatively thin that one might be able to do that with . I would want to see the actual seats that were going into the car before cutting into the frame . I have the luxury of being able to walk away from a project and mull it over for a while or attend to something else on it while I dream up a solution . I am not in a position that requires daily progress such as yours . I hope I am being helpful . I also hope I am not sounding at all critical of your situation as that is not my intent .
The seats are just leftovers we had, the only buckets on hand to try. And they are power. Any bucket seat will require the notch. The car's OE design relies heavily on a very reclined seating position and if the back of the seat is not down, your head touches the roof skin. I have a date with traffic now, must go sit in my blown Pontiac for an hour to get there, but I will re-re-emphasize the need for our actual seat choice to be on hand, and may move to another area to fill in during the indecision period.. But that would be a cop-out because this has to be solved to move forward. I very much appreciate your input and will check back in later. One of the challenges about this job is how new I am to using the authority I have earned and making responsible decisions. So far, so good but I wish I had been in the right spot to make frantic negative gestures when buckets and console came up in boss / owner conversation. :wink:
Neighbor dog barking is down this week, so chances of me taking a comment wrong here are lower. :) I trust that you guys are with me. If you see bad stuff feel free to speak your mind and I won't freak. My main mental burden is of course cutting frame. But when you can see what I have in mind you may see that its not a terribly big deal. Just silly. And no wheelies or dirt roads in the car's future.
Anyone else have input? This situation will clarify itself eventually and I understand it may be tough to envision with the images I provided.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/JNMAAOSwZVlXvKw-/s-l1600.jpg)
In my opinion notching the frame is the last thing to do.The strength of the frame depends on being able to transfer the loads from one end to the other. A notch would interrupt the flow of the forces, concentrating them at the notch, and breaking the frame there in no time at all, possibly in a few hundred miles.
The picture above is the right seat base, but it is a mirror of the left side. If you were to shorten the three rods that the motors control about 3" to move the inside track out that amount. And then bolt a strap to the seat where the base mounts, drilling the strap for the new inner seat track position, it seems to me all your problems would be solved.
The rods would need to be aligned carefully when you shorten them, but that is fairly easy. The inside half of the seat belt would have to get a new mount, but that would not be a big deal, and would save you a bit of room.
The trouble is not that the inside track is out over the rail, it is that it also needs to be down. Changing side to side position is not an issue, its the height. The corner of any seat, not just track, has to occupy space that the rail does. Vertically and horizontally. Shuffling seat track width is no help... because if the seat can't also be tilted down in back, theres no headroom. I may not have fully got what you're saying, Frank. So I'll review that suggestion and thank you, sir. The boss stared at it a good while and reviewed the bench or bucket discussion then sent more communication asking for fresh input. So theres hope. But you know how it is, sometimes you gotta spook folks to get their attention. I am duly spooked by cutting frame but without mentioning it I wasn't getting much response.
Just to add a dumb suggestion ( I can always come up with them ). A right side seat mount on the left side and visa/versa also some SUVs ( '03 ranger too)have the seat adjustment latch on the front rather than the side. I'm fighting a similar problem with the Jeepster, different frame, no floor and the only seat I have to work with is an S10 truck seat. Oh to have a Model A. Frame that is straight on the top, bottom of the body sits on top of the frame,no tunnel in the floor, high roof, big windows. I'd probably have it "messed-up" in a short while. GPster
I agree with Frank about the frame. That's too much to be modified to retain the integrity of the design. 2 thoughts: is there anyway to put seat tracks outside a seat as to allow it to sit as low as possible? No.2: Build a custom seat from sheet metal. Following kind of a lounge chair design that allows for the driver to lay back a far amount. I think it there was anyway to use a bench, I would be inclined to try that but I'm well aware that I'm possibly the worst person to add input because I tend to choose functionality over cool factor. :)
Well I sure appreciate hearing you guys' thoughts on it.
I did not cut the frame.
I can't tell if one person I have talked to about it has understood the issue because the suggestions involve bracketing around the frame. That doesn't fly, the frame would need to be below the rockers for that to work. It did cross my mind to have a non-adjustable seat but thats no help either. If I put a Mustang seat in it and jam that against the frame, its still too far left. The pivot point and seat bottom cushion and bracket all would have to be in a frame notch. So I moved on, and am filling in the blanks up front around the trans. Went looking for the pieces I cut out and they had been thrown out like yesterday. That upset me a little. So it wasn't a woohoo day but did make some progress and avoided big mistakes for another day. :) The green tape at bottom left was where I started the day trying to illustrate what I was telling about.
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Had a "shower thought"... :idea: I should get out the original bench seat to separate fact from opinion, about headroom. I have the whole width of the seat mounting area saved in one piece stashed in a corner. Still, I hope. :roll: If I were to place it all back in the original position, something could come to light. Why didn't I think of that before :?:
What an adventure this is! As far as work goes, its fairly thrilling. :D
Also made an observation today... never paid attention to the number of views on this thread :shock: 11K+ :!: Must count spambot hits :?
hey matt just a thought have you asked the chassis builder for input they may have a solution
the mothers 59chev wagon used a bench seat
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Mother+1959+Sedan+Delivery&noj=1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjk2qvYjIjZAhWIf7wKHanjBdQQsAQIKA&biw=1920&bih=930#imgrc=_
Matt, take a look at Jaguar XJS seats. The base of the seats are pretty thin top to bottom.
He Guys .... Had a thought after banging my head..(Again.. :roll: :oops: )
Maybe we are trying to re-invent this :?: Are the current floor pans designed to fit the photo of the frame from page one :?: :?: :roll:....( Hint ..It has a big "X" in the middle & nothing on the outer sides ...)
roddingroundtable.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14168&start=0
It was just a thought ..... :?
Bob... :wink:
Hey, thanks guys 8)
Chris, interesting pics at that link. :) I made several observations. Gigantic trans tunnel for the same trans as ours. 60/40 split bench seat, I see. With the driver's tilted back. That was a thought I had also as a seat solution. If you look at their rear footwell area and tunnel you can see that the middle of the bench is crammed down over the driveshaft hump. That type seat would allow bracketry to get seat as close to floor as possible. And its also obviously a custom seat.
Frank, thanks again. I think the ones in my GTP are also. This car begs for oh, say 64 Impala SS buckets. Proportionally correct, used with an X frame, and with very flat stud plates on the floor for mounting at the inside. I know this because I replaced floors in one with buckets and console.
I don't mind telling you guys... Chris, yes I did ask about manufacturer's tips, and if examples exist. You see, research... in our arrangement... falls under the heading of boss work. Occasionally, I get asked to look and advise. But our strategy has the man closest to the customer do mouse and keyboard work. Because he has the big picture. I contribute what I can, to present realistic options backed by research when I make suggestions. So I stay busy with metal while he makes the calls. We have faith in one another to tend to questions asked in a timely manner. This is no different, but I had to dismiss seat thoughts until further input and do something else to balance the project's pace (I am proud to be ahead and prodding rather than the other way around).
Bob, the aftermarket front pans are made to fit over a stock frame like on page 1. I think maybe what I am running into here is that the desired ride height was established without a chassis in sight, just a couple wheels under a body on a lift. Turns out that requires a one inch body drop over the frame. I believe thats where it is now. We all know how much an inch of body height can do. Unfortunately, not having all the pricey components up front heaps a colossal mound of labor one one smart man's best guesses. Like where to estimate the coilovers will ride for example. If instead of the inch drop we now have with frsme and rockers level... we could have the body up an inch from where it is, and accomplish desired ride height via suspension... bam, this gets way way easier. Alas, boss is a painter, not a bodyman. But here we are, a solid ten years deep in busy. So I do as much as I can without questioning anyone. What I've done on this car is build components with easy adjustment in mind so alterations once the facts are all in are less painful.
Since you read all those words, you all deserve pictures. I worked on a Chevy today. Here are a couple dear Pontiac pics, one from last century with a tangent relative to the conversation.
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This pic illustrates a couple differences in the aftermarket frame... See how far down I had to take the places where pan welds to front body mount brackets? This frame rises just ahead of the X whereas the stocker was flat out to the mounts. Both old floor and new are sloped outward from the trans tunnel but the new is more so. Also note position of the the long silver sharpie line on one pan, in relation to the bead next to it. That shows how different this section of frame is shaped, much wider for headers. I may be able to eliminate those ugly steps I cut by building another brace which goes all the way across, tapered at the ends.
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I gotta undo some of that but now have worked out sturdy bracing to connect front body mount brackets and floor. Those steps are goners and pans will be flat there rather than having a dip. Pics at first opportunity and thanks for following along. :)
Making the connection to front body mount stands. Its a work in progress. I intend to have a stock-like overlapped toe board seam go all the way across, hump and all. At the seat pan the panels butt and theres room on the brace for a row of plug welds on each.It is getting sturdier.
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:lol: That poor aftermarket pan section is finally scrap. The beads did not jive with anything underneath but I used it as a pattern and hatched this version. The vertical flange clears the frame. We need humps for pipes around the tailshaft, thats just how it is. This design will allow me to form a trans tunnel with vertical edge flanges that can sit over this then both flanges trimmed to set the height. Again, more plugs, less stitching. Thats the plan anyway. :roll: I need more posterboard.
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Just remember Matt .....If it was easy, anyone could do it ...... 8)
Bob... :wink:
I had forgot, thanks. :) Things like this do require measuring twice AND cutting twice. :idea: :wink:
Not much to show today. Did rust cleanup on the right front body mount box and marked out a new left pan. Took the right half of the floor brace assembly out then leveled it and welded joints that are sure to stay. That means not the seat mount bars yet. Hey now that I read it that sounds like pics. I have a few but my day's ration of gumption is fading fast. Yawn. I better hurry. :)
Oh and hey Frank... as far as I know, the existing trans mount stays where it is. I thought a revision could maybe avoid having "wings" at the back of the trans tunnel but now am just gonna make room, as you'll see. The floor is turning out to be almost exactly what I originally pictured. I just gotta hop to and get some space filled with new floor and maintain some visual momentum. Other side has all the thinking done except for seats, so building the remainder and, when the time comes, installing the floor should go fairly quick.
Well guys I know the pics haven't changed much lately but I am stoked about being almost done with what, for me, has been the big thing on this project. Not ready to talk seats yet though, but there has been mental progress there. I sure have enjoyed flooring from scratch so far but it has been a stretch for the noggin at times. I can't wait to get to the next areas. Last pic this post is finally an underneath shot. It shows some of the gussets I added today and the layout from roadkill's eye view. I did briefly put most of my weight on one foot in by the tunnel and it is plenty strong for not being tied to the other side. Didn't want to treak that inner rocker though. Its all in with screws now and prepped to attach sans seat supports or whatever will be. Pans lack some weld prep. Anyhow, here... study hard and you can see how I tied to the front mount box. The brace's front tip will be visible under the hood so I did IDJ stuffs there. Thick metal is fun and intermittently my welds improve. :)
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This pic was Monday and shows the front leg upside down. Oops!
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Yesterday I got the driver's side half of the floor support assembly all tied in at the front, to match the passenger's. Then I eyeballed a crude bridge directly over the trans mount, with my best guesstimation of enough room for the exhaust to get through. Thick angle steel made good stiff brackets on top of the inner support beam to set the bridge on. Tacked that up level and stood on it. Now she is stout!
Inner front seat bolts will also likely fall in the area of the big angle bracket, so the ends of the bridge may have to incorporate that as well. Its popular real estate around that tail housing. :roll:
Sooo, then today... rather than make the other front pan or toe board or gussets for that side, I sized up the tunnel situation and made a right wing. See pics below. Space created by the wing shaped tunnel side extension is mainly needed at the rear. I intend to angle it down forward of the frame bend and have it flat at the toe board seam. So theres no notch looking under the hood or lump under the carpet at the toeboard kickup.
In addition, I'll transition the steps at front of the driveshaft tunnel flat to provide more room for exhaust bends. I'll offer to install pipe hangers or hanger mount points hanging off the bridge.
Before you see the pic, remember what I said about being flat forward of the toe board seam. And know that while currently the step up is 3/4" high and a 90, I'm going for half inch tall lump with a more sloped step. And perhaps a couple beads for strength. Note the screw at outside front of wing... I doglegged that tall upright flange and fitted pan to wing in such a manner as to allow one row of plug welds on the step area and one on the top face of the wing. That makes the step another strong spot, being double layered and bent.
Plans beyond those go wherever it leads me, but you can see where I am thinking of using the stepped brace originally intended as a seat brace. I have come a long way, learned many lessons so far, and am looking forward to seeing it all screwed in at once, then all apart and hosed with epoxy. It will be a proud day when I plug the pans in and bury it all for eternity!
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Well, glory be. :) Theres pans in it :!: I have a good start on the trans tunnel section also. :arrow:
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You You have a whole lot of welding to do there.
Quote from: "enjenjo"You You have a whole lot of welding to do there.
Is that an offer to pitch in?
Thought not... how 'bout a wordy reply?
Blissful plug welding mostly. Looking forward to that but after seats, headers, wheel, tire, and all that those involve. I have not yet welded joints on the left half of the braces yet though, and theres no reason not to stitch up edges of the rear pans and install the toe boards. Epoxy first on those though.
Reaching this point with the floor has been my mental halfway mark. Glad to be past it. I am rarely quite satisfied with my speed but am pleased with how it is turning out although I was getting a little antsy about time. My bead roller work needs more practice. Its my first full floor fab and has been tons of hard fun. :) If theres a next, my design process will be much more streamlined. :arrow:
Yes, you're right. It takes as long to weld it as the metal work did. I have done several.
I believe that.
Progress...
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Ahhhh--the art of the rosette weld! That sheet metal work looks amazing, Matt! And no one will ever be able to see the artistry.
8) nice work Matt that looks so good
Is there a decision made about seats? Guesstimate on welding hours? :)
Guys, thanks. 8)
KB, no. They want buckets is all I know. Boss will be back next week and I guarantee seat selection is on his plate. I would just as soon deny them buckets and explain the limitation but thats not my position. Opinions gathered here about notching are contrary to those held by crew members, boss, and the dark place. I merely hold the axe aloft and await command.
Right off the top of my head I'd like to think I could weld in the structure and pans in a day, if all prep and is done and footwell welds finished prior. But theres a day to go on the support's left half also, and of course I will do my best to weld nothing until it is time. Its not time now, not even close. But now its solid enough just screwed in, that trunk floor can be taken to the same phase. With cabin and trunk floors in this way, I'll be comfortable to move to tub mods and finally quarter patch installation.
10-4!
Lets pretend for a moment that the powers that be agreed and the notch is done. Are there any suggestions concerning adding reinforcement outside the notched area? For example if another section of rail much longer than the notch were attached to the bottom of the frame? Should it bolt on? I know thats silly but what would it take? I noticed the Mother's wagon has added frame supports at the square corners ahead of the rear wheels. Could concerns about weakening the chassis be addressed by adding an outboard pair of frame rails that run from ahead of the rear wheel to the beginning of the wide front part of the frame? Lastly, if you don't approve of cutting frame at all but your customer insists, do you suggest that he find a shop that will and send it there to be notched? Or do you refuse to finish the job as soon as the need is discovered? Is the end of this game marked by a sign that says no buckets with AME hourglass frames? I'm listening.
Not a peep? Here are pics to help visualize a supplemental frame addition that could remove a sufficient amount of stress to make bucket seats possible. Still pretending the notch has been done.
Why not , at the firewall body mount bracket (that is not provided and must be fabbed and welded to the frame, so we know its OK to weld there) add a straight piece of tubing that matches the frame that runs straight back to the front of the square rear section? If these were to be connected to each other by low profile crossmembers running under the center frame but not touching it, would that be best? They could also just be tied to the center frame if that would suffice.
I am trying to do right and I know these are either tough questions or silly but not having much luck figuring out which. I wouldn't ask the question if it wasn't out of my league. You guys have forgotten more about this than I could ever aspire to do and I know that if the answer is silly rather than tough, I know you won't beat me over the head for not being born sooner. Not very hard anyway.
See the tiny crossmembers in place from the factory? What about those? I am told they are to be removed since only tacked. Don't know if they clear or what. But is there any validity at all in suggesting the added fore / aft rails at all? Would a photo with the idea drawn on it bring anyone closer to a response? I can do that in a jiffy but its fairly simple to imagine. If the proposed notch is unclear I could indicate that as well but its a guess.
:idea: :?:
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Why not move the inner seat rail out enough to clear the frame? I have yet to find a seat that you can't do that on. Or use the rails from another seat. I installed some Grand Am seats on Lincoln seat bases in a Chevy a couple years ago. mI have also used Escort seats on Lebarron bases.
Quote from: "enjenjo"Why not move the inner seat rail out enough to clear the frame? I have yet to find a seat that you can't do that on. Or use the rails from another seat. I installed some Grand Am seats on Lincoln seat bases in a Chevy a couple years ago. mI have also used Escort seats on Lebarron bases.
Headroom. I can do anything to any seat but can't put the corner of one inside the rail. I thought I explained. The seat itself, not the bracket, has to be at a spot that is inside the space occupied by the frame. The frame is actually almost in the way of the driver's butt. Any seat centered behind the steering column will have the edge over the frame rail. I am going to just stop asking and ignore the problem, it must only exist in my head. :roll: Someone who thinks theres not a problem will have to deal with it. Maybe I'll learn something if I just disregard the whole problem and finish the floor blind. :idea:
Ready to take all the fabbed stuff back out now, to finish welding and gussetng and get epoxy on. Got the other tunnel brace tacked in today and am ready to weld the front extension on.
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Floor frame is in it for keeps now, welding the front legs and toe boards in if I can tomorrow. It ain't perfect nor quite finished, and the H shaped seat braces are still just roughed in. I have several reinforcements to add here and there but the bottom side is alright now. I did get some seat details, width is 22". Cross your fingers for the frame. Seats I am told are same ones as in the brown and white 65 GTO ragtop but 2"wider. They look really low profile. Anyway here am pics, precise symmetry was not achieved but its within a horseshoe.
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Pictures are weak today, I was trying to hurry but I don't do that real well. :roll:
Left the floor as shown, and tackled front body mount brackets. It is a blast to work with thick stuff but the learning curve on that is bucking me somewhat. I have questions. Where is the guy with the clean garage but extra hot rod?
If butt welding 3/16" plate, what is the optimum gap? How about a T, or corner? I seem to remember hearing 1.5 X the thickness of the metal somewhere but is that right, 150%?
When attaching this bracket, rail and bracket being about the same thickness, would half inch plug welds on three sides be better than welding edges? I thought perhaps big plugs with short beads at the bottom on each side.
The frame is kicked up at a twenty degree angle where the firewall mount goes, so I made a tight fitting saddle over the rail with that tilt out of angle. Added 4" wide bar stock to extend it outward seven more inches then added 3/4" along the bottom of the saddle's outside because my angle steel was only 3"wide. Then I added gussets with a little slant cut at the outside tips, and there it is. The welds do go through, mostly, I think. We shall see in the next episode but I feel as though I am improving. Still not ready for prime bead laying time. But I am dotting the heck out of it and trying to keep straight.
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I'd like to take a paragraph here to honor them who make it possible for me to have this opportunity to post at the round table. Its a privelidge I have enjoyed for years and I appreciate the real life experience on tap in this forum. Thanks to all the faithful viewers as well for your gracious comments and sage advice. I hope to continue happily among RRT friends and appreciate this opportunity to share and participate. I am obliged to the powers that be, for allowing the first hand view picture size and detail. I believe that is important to the aspiring body man, and can be entertaining for an old hand. Lets enjenjoy. :D
Today one mount bracket took shape fully and I tacked it but need to cut those and clamp it better with body weight on it. The bolt holes are small in case they were off. The bushings in there are the tiny ones. I think we will have the bigger, sleeved bushings at this spot. Now that I have it fully in place I see I can shorten it quite a bit. Thats cool because the only pieces cut for the other side so far are the angles. I think I want to plug weld the top and inside and edges on the outside, of the frame rail.
I finished up both toe boards and am heading in the direction of the patch above the trans tunnel. I will continue to work on other areas besides the floor as much as possible in order to provide a wider stream of visual progress for boss and owner while awaiting key parts. Might wake folks up that read the thread too, its been pretty but dull. Ever know a woman like that?
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Matt, I'm watching. I have other stuff taking over my feeble brain power so I have little to say. :)
Quote from: "kb426"Matt, I'm watching. I have other stuff taking over my feeble brain power so I have little to say. :)
Hey, you keep on doing whats right in front of you. I know you're here.! :) Wanna have a feeblest brain power contest? I might give you a good run. :lol:
Quote from: "idrivejunk"Quote from: "kb426"Matt, I'm watching. I have other stuff taking over my feeble brain power so I have little to say. :)
Wanna have a feeblest brain power contest? I might give you a good run. :lol:
Hey guys ....Before you start that ,remember my signature line ..... :roll: :oops: :?
Bob... :wink:
I practiced welding today. No reason to believe I will ever be able to do it. My body mount bracket was an attempt to grow and meet the needs of my employer. I took it upon myself to make the thing because I needed them on there to continue. Now I question whether I have been fit to work on cars at any point since taking the first bodyman job. Since current life conditions are forcing big changes soon anyway, I may just shoot for the gutter next because nobody can knock you down if you are already on the ground. I need to find a local job unrelated to cars, get a second hand bicycle, and find a cheap motel. Its the only ethical and feasible path. Trying to get my mind around that. I "welded" the front section of trans hump mostly in today also.
Still trying to get my mind bent around the current state of affairs, but looky there I done finished me a area! :) :arrow: Told ya I can be found near the floor.
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Gee Matt ..... :? Now you can walk in Monday morning & hollar : HANG ON everybody....I'm gonna FLOOR IT :!: :!: :lol:
Bob.... :wink:
nice tunnel work Matt 8)
Quote from: "chris spokes"nice tunnel work Matt 8)
Thanks, Chris. Took long enough! :roll: There, somebody had to say it. :lol:
Quote from: "UGLY OLDS"Gee Matt ..... :? Now you can walk in Monday morning & hollar : HANG ON everybody....I'm gonna FLOOR IT :!: :!: :lol:
Bob.... :wink:
I'm sticking a red star on your workbook for that one, Bob. :lol: If my timing is right I can knock that one outta the park. 8) Nice clown work.
Been kinda picking up on a vibe at work that maybe I should pay more attention to... I don't think it would upset anyone if I threw out the seat question entirely and finish what I built on guesswork. They can and will work with whatever I put. So maybe I should just declare floorfare and zap it all in. Naw... better screw it back in and go to trunk drops and bracing to resume working toward some structural integrity before wheelwells are cut.
Thanks for peacefully observing my thought processes, you gotta be a little off to do this stuff. I present this ugly but effective, running sanity preservation device as eye bleach. It looks sad but makes happy. :D
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Heres that change of scenery but not really new territory and we all know what the vise looks like. That thing takes a beating. Thanks Dad.
First thing today I blew the car off outside then chased hissy air fittings around the room. Annoyances out of the way, I leveled up body and frame. Then I took trunk drops off to finish preparing those. I had intended to make both of those panels but was able to just patch one and as you see, the fabbed one needed more love to resemble the original at the ends of the reinforcing bead. I loved on it then welded those in.
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This is just kind of a refresher pic. I intend to shuffle tubing around back here and I have the mental picture.
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This is the brace at the front of the back seat with added tubes now, and about to be notched over the driveshaft with a thick patch. Lastly, I'll add fins out at the ends like the others but thicker. I plan to go 6" forward from the brace with a tapered round up-notch in the tunnel to match the brace. Fingers crossed for clearance at full drop.
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This is a fun part. :) Hope I can zip through my plan. :arrow:
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Yesterday I stitched up a footwell. Needs work to level it back out because I did the corners with it on the table. The seatbelt mount cover doesn't fit anymore either. I want to lightly english wheel these welds a little too, to straighten a bit. I'll do more fitting as I go on the other side and it will go differently. So many lessons! Fitting rectangular tubing is harder than it looks.
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Today I felt like more got done. I narrowed the hump floor frame 4" and made dogleg shaped trunk pan braces to follow the hump rails and tie body mounts together. I have trimmed outer curved sections of the front flange of the stock body tail crossmember at the new mount area to accept a tube laid along the front of the crossmember which will connect the ends of the doglegs. My mental picture has cracked the egg so to speak.
Gave the chassis guy another opportunity to request room for stuff, and my rough plan is a go. Plugging all the pans in this car will be a treat. Using stock tank braces is tempting and if I cut one loose and it fits in the blast cabinet, I think I would prefer them since they are not bad and the car still fits them. They are holding themselves in the original place in the pic, and they have been blasted and epoxied on the underside. I made a simple front bracket to weld them there already but could also easily fit tubing there instead. We are planning some sort of fuel pump access hatch. Reckon I'll ask boss whether he would rather use a stocker kinda tank with straps and long bolts or not or what. Should end up with a nifty car show supplies compartment over the axle, perhaps even a pass-through. Speaker enclosures would be a good thing to incorporate, hmm.
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I remember looking at the 1st pics and thinking at 1st glance, that doesn't look so bad. Color me stupid. :) Large cars = lots of work. No way around it if it's going to be good. Do you expect this car to be better than the Biscayne or very similar? Try to control your Pontiac bias. :)
Quote from: "kb426"I remember looking at the 1st pics and thinking at 1st glance, that doesn't look so bad. Color me stupid. :) Large cars = lots of work. No way around it if it's going to be good. Do you expect this car to be better than the Biscayne or very similar? Try to control your Pontiac bias. :)
I didn't think it looked that bad at first either. Blasting was mighty revealing. Kinda like actual cats, once you hose em down, they all look about the same.
I don't think one has to look far to see the Catalina as the superior build just based on parts bought. Aftermarket chassis and full custom interior and you can hit stop because the point is made. Better is such a subjective term though. Today I saw the Biscayne go past my stall and I bolted to watch it go down the street. A tire rubbed just going out the driveway but man... I am not wild about these particular years of cars but I'm telling ya that jewel draws the eye and keeps it. To me, both will probably come across as muscled up classics done nicely.
The tangible difference is that the Cat could be called upon for track day duty with more confidence having modern suspension. Its no contest, I would declare Pontiac winner here. Whether that was the question or not I do not know. As far as the bodywork goes, neither car has the best I can do on it. Both have the neatest and most complete rust repairs I can provide without destroying the owner's ability to pay. It is hard to tell when to quit butting and stitching and start lapping and plugging but my aim to please is improving and both cars got solid work where it counts. If you're like me, the better car would be determined in legit classic style by lining them up outside the city limits. The two finished cars would make a helluva 1-2 punch X-frame feature article.
The Catalina's bizarre overall look just has such enormous potential as a high-end show car and kustom body mod showcase, that it will be kinda sad to see it dressed like the Biscayne, in plain clothes as a fuzzy dice car. :? When I finish with it, thats where I'd love to start customizing. Zero mod ideas not on the rendering have been considered, and bumper exhaust exits seem to be the only proposition being taken seriously. Oh, thats right, you guys have not seen the Pfaff renderings. I don't know if its OK to post those. Did you guys want to see them? There was one in the blue 67 F100 article and this car got front and rear views done. I began to create my own to show ideas but thats spitting into the wind.
Sorry so many words, just trying to cover the angles on which is better. If you try to answer the question "Which was worse?", knowing what you know, you'll understand the predicament.
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I have the gas tank braces in and am tying into the trunk drop brace at front, behind the right wheelwell. Ready to drop a mount nut pocket of some sort into the floor framework intersection as shown. As you see I am down to splicing tubing scraps now. Could use another stick or two but its raining. Anyway the way it works out, to be level there behind the wheel I had to fork the tubing 2" back from the end and slip it over the available attaching point which is two layers. On the bottom, I squeezed the fork at the end so from the bottom you see it tapered back 2". You shall see but just the top is welded for now.
In this first pic, you are looking at the top of that wheelwell. See the rusty flat area facing you? With the epoxy drip and two welds on it's left end. Thats where I'll connect to the roof rails but can't go straight across without cutting into speaker room. Making this up as I go but not without much mental culling of ideas as I sneak up on solutions. :) By the way yes, with an EFI pump in tank, the tank will probably have to stick up between the braces for it at the front. Because the car is so low.
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Wow! I'm glad someone with deeper pockets than me is paying the labor bill on this one! All this fabrication is pretty intense.
Quote from: "rumrumm"Wow! I'm glad someone with deeper pockets than me is paying the labor bill on this one! All this fabrication is pretty intense.
He was in Monday, first visit. Didn't have much to say, just one question for me:
How long on the rest of the floor stuff? :?:
I could see being done in a month (with floor and probably tub stuff) IF we had seats, wheels, and tires and gas tank already.
Thats when I took the driveshaft tunnel off and sat the driver's seat pan in place with the steering column location marked and explained the conflict.
The response was "We can blame that (bucket seat choice) on ******."
****** is not a co-worker or the boss, or me. So I wonder. If they drag feet long enough I'll weld pans in as-is and stand by with a box of tissues. I know some buckets are on the way to the interior guy for approval.
So... I'm just painting my own picture with diligence and staying off toes. But if we are talking intense, lets talk knees and elbows. Whew, trunks hurt. I'm down to skipping supper now, too. Just so you guys know, the owner never batted an eye or flinched or even changed facial expression really. Took a pic inside the trunk. I questioned him as to whether this particular car was sentimental. No, it was bought for this but his Dad had one back when he began driving. He mentioned the 389 in this one and made a slight WOT tri-power noise and gesture so he is probably alright. I finally managed to get a big smirk when I mentioned the crew wanting to install flamethrowers in the backup lights. I believe our hero is not unlike that of the Biscayne in that somehow they came to us already convinced we were the right place. The reason they stay to the finish is they don't get BS'ed and we actually do finish. But it has to hurt! If everybody hurts a little, it works. Otherwise you get the way too common paint jail scenario.
Quittin time snuck up on me today, work area was a thrash zone and not much progress to show so I'll play pic hooky this evening. :idea:
A 7/16" nut drops into these pockets and won't spin. I am going to put holes in the pan over them. At the tail member I just put bolt holes at the inside corners and will move the mount to where the bolt centers the frame rail.
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Ready to slide under it and mark for weld prep now. I also got the trans tunnel half welded so far.
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Good statement about the owner. :) I would think he has researched plenty of shops before committing on a project of this scope.
The typical internet reaction to the scope is that of disbelief and assumed ignorance, so word of mouth among the elite must be what keeps them coming. I don't know. But this is a prosperous area apparently, and some guys are on a scale that eludes understanding by guys like you and I, plain and simple. It looks to me like those monetarily successful or fortunate guys found us and are glad of it. Still blows me away too, though. Case and point: When the Biscayne owner picks his car up, he is dropping off a 51 Ford pickup for a full build including an AME frame. Think about that. Alongside that display of wealth are at least two more jobs getting the same treatment. So... what do we call this new thing that isn't rodding? Buying? Checkbooking? I realized years ago that I will never understand. Heck I've never understood how new vehicles get sold because I just can't imagine how sufficient income is generated to buy them. Same thing here, just different scale.The dudes are still just dudes though. Playing with cars the best they know how. 8)
Today, half day, I finished welding in the trans tunnel then made sure the pans still fit. Got started on the last pair of body mounts, at the back seat.
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Here is progress from today on that RH back seat body mount. Did something else Monday, stand by for that.
I needed to establish where the wheelwell will be, and to gain some seat bottom room. The roughed in configuration got whacked at the point where it passes the front of the well, headed forward. So I could move the front end of the tube outward past the frame rail and down for seat room. Its whacky alright. So far the piece looks like this, from the bottom...
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Its a work in progmess, added strength dead ahead. The angled piece farthest to the right, at the joint, is thick stuff and connects to all 3 tubes.
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The other side will be as symmetrical as possible. Still kinda rocket science for IDJ here but I am learning a bunch the way I like to learn it. Definitely gonna need more and better tools if I am doing more floor fabs!
Monday I fussed over leveling, squaring, centering the body on the frame. The right rocker to roof rail distance is off a half inch from the whole rest of the car and that will continue to be a thorn in my paw as I walk the rest of this journey. I chose to trust the whole rest of the car's dimensions and let the rocker slide. Roof, quarters, firewall, floors, all sit just like I want.
This was how I centered the firewall and body mount pockets:
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I then finally welded my old trusty tunnel brace in. I set it up for either a mount or just cushion there. This may also serve as an inner seatbelt mount point as well. The whole floor frame just keeps growing stronger with each thing, and everything seems to have stayed put as far as the body flexing goes.
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In this, you can see theres also a pad with room for smaller body cushions under the ends of the forward tunnel support too. Yes, there is going to be a good bit of welding to do after I lift the body off.
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You didn't think you was gonna look at all that and not see one GP, didya? :wink:
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There has been a slight change of plans. :)
Er... :? If you mean setting up for tubs, I just figured it was a safe assumption that narrowing will be required.
This morning I asked if it would be alright to get the guy who tore the car down to zip together the front clip so we could confirm fore/aft body placement. Suddenly here it came! I am glad of it but could have waited. It happened that I asked at the right time I reckon. Knocked a couple hours off my doings today messing around with that. Got one more small piece to make then weld these up to have the whole floor frame in, with mounts. Another pair over the axle is my thought, and I am looking forward to focusing on the axle hump area flooring next.
Poor lighting today.
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For putting up with my crap, here are some bonus other shots from around the workplace. :) General car guy eye fodder.
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I'd have your painter show me a few things but I'm pretty sure he would say: "you can't see very well, can you?" :)
Painting is hard. About every painter I ever met wears glasses but none while in the booth. I am convinced this is all the result of random blindfolded flailing of arms with spray gun in hand. Our man is just an outstanding buffer. :lol:
That color on the Bronco is Envy Green, some kinda heavy pearl designer color. But being such a big dirt-laden, crazily masked 4x4... well, Mr Sandman assisted in the booth. Some of the nibs could draw blood so you got the uh... wide angle shot. If more folks could afford to have us paint these wicked pearl colors on their vehicle exteriors with panels hung, they would get better panel-to-panel color consistency but strange as it may seem... nobody seems to care. To pay that. So most are shot apart like this one, and first daylight on it assembled is a finger-crosser. Paintar consistently does a wonderful job regardless of that fact.
Theres the obligatory wordy IDJ reply, thanks for visiting and please come again. :)
Heres the latest pic, with one small piece left to go on the drivers side. Other one is done but did not get a pic. Almost ready to lift it off the frame now, to weld and drill underneath stuff then drop it back down. As you can see, its dark and scary in there.
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Today I finished that area then cut out the middle two stamped vertical package tray braces along with the tube link between them. Then I put a bend in a sheet of 16 gauge hot rolled steel for a blank (at this rough-in stage) bulkhead and used the castaway aftermarket front pans to begin filling in the area under the back seat. Also spent a couple hours on the Mustang today.
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nice work there Matt 8) 8)
Quote from: "chris spokes"nice work there Matt 8) 8)
Thanks a lot sir, I am pleased with how its coming along now. Today was my Friday but I have the pieces on either side of that bed floor patch panel ready to install.
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Lets play make believe and imagine the car done as rendered. Skip ahead a few pages...
Which looks better, molding or no molding :?:
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MOLDING!!!!!
With all that chrome around the window openings the lower part of the body is too much uninterrupted color without the molding. I'd say they need to keep it. GPster
I am a molding hater but with the antique color scheme, it needs it. However if you ditch it and use a good dark pearl or candy, suddenly its this century and fuzzy dice, side moldings, and chrome skirts go on ebay :idea: :arrow:
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I would lose more chrome than this if it were me.
How about a simple straight molding with no "swoopie" on the rear quarter :?: :?: :idea:
Just carry a straight line from front to back following the body line :?: :?:
Bob... :wink:
Chrome !
Getting warmer?
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Dump The Dip :!: :roll:
Bob.. :wink:
Try a single piece of straighttrim on the rear quarter only. :D
I like the last dip without the rocker cover the best so far.
Keep the input coming! Theres a front and rear face we ought to look at also.
How does this trim arrangement grab ya?
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Quote from: "idrivejunk"Keep the input coming! Theres a front and rear face we ought to look at also.
How does this trim arrangement grab ya?
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I think I like that one the best.
I'm with Carnut on this. I like the dip without the fender skirts. I think the straight line piece will interfere with the bulge in the fender.
That's what I was thinkin'.. 8) Just about a foot shorter in the back.... It looks like even the original trim mounts right at the bottom of the "bulge"....Not on it ... :?
WOW....I just noticed ...Is my next post reason for celebration :?: Awards :?: Prizes.. :?: Jubilation :?: :roll: :roll:
Bob... :wink:
Thin, straight-line trim for me, to accentuate the length, & fine lines. Also, I would suggest losing the front fender-mount mirrors, sitting out in the breeze; find a door-mount mirror more in keeping with the smooth look. (Or just move the existing mirrors to the doors....)
Quote from: enjenjoQuote from: "idrivejunk"
How does this trim arrangement grab ya?
I think I like that one the best.
Thank you sir. I kinda like it too. Can't quite be straight though. But I like how it ends up parallel to the road.
Quote from: "rumrumm"I'm with Carnut on this. I like the dip without the fender skirts. I think the straight line piece will interfere with the bulge in the fender.
When you guys say dip, you mean where the molding dips down on the quarter, correct? You are correct about the interference. The straight stick has to either turn down or twist the last foot or two at the rear. Putting a point like up front at the rear so the molding doesn't intersect with the bumper might be a help.
Quote from: "UGLY OLDS"That's what I was thinkin'.. 8) Just about a foot shorter in the back.... It looks like even the original trim mounts right at the bottom of the "bulge"....Not on it ... :?
WOW....I just noticed ...Is my next post reason for celebration :?: Awards :?: Prizes.. :?: Jubilation :?: :roll: :roll:
Bob... :wink:
A whole foot shorter? After the molding dip theres a spear dip... so to continue hugging the underneath of that contour there would have to be a slight dip last foot or two of a straight molding. Now I want fondue. Or Copenhagen, not sure which.
Here is your shiny thoughts penny and a jubilant half cookie. :arrow: :D
Quote from: "crdnblu"Thin, straight-line trim for me, to accentuate the length, & fine lines. Also, I would suggest losing the front fender-mount mirrors, sitting out in the breeze; find a door-mount mirror more in keeping with the smooth look. (Or just move the existing mirrors to the doors....)
Thanks. A straight thin molding suits me fine but see above replies. Would you run it down the center of the spear contour of the quarter or below it? There are big holes everywhere the molding goes now.
That is one funky mirror. The silly mirror location has not been discussed. That does give the car part of it's identity but yeah, something ought to change. Its a funky shape and an eyesore.
If I learned anything today its that coworkers like the hook. Nobody likes the bumper treatment. And...
The car will not be red. Don't know what color yet but red is out, they say. Boss asked me for a black and a green one just now.
I made flange strips to attach the crusty tail light area braces to the tail member, welded the ribbed piece and brackets in, got the rear hump pan extension prepped, and went back to continue on the back seat bulkhead. I am having second thoughts about that hot roll sheet and may end up with something different. I cut the trunk pan center section out and will make that piece when gas tank is the focus. Stopping there will leave the fill and pump bumpup stuff wide open for now. Pics kinda suck today, poor lighting in a shadowy spot and the flash didn't want to fire for me. Here-
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Quote from: "idrivejunk"Quote from: "rumrumm"I'm with Carnut on this. I like the dip without the fender skirts. I think the straight line piece will interfere with the bulge in the fender.
When you guys say dip, you mean where the molding dips down on the quarter, correct? You are correct about the interference. The straight stick has to either turn down or twist the last foot or two at the rear. Putting a point like up front at the rear so the molding doesn't intersect with the bumper might be a help.
Yes, that is what I meant by dip.
Love the black car, but the maroon one is pretty cool as well. Personally, I think red is a little much for a car that large. Darker colors work better IMHO.
Green top, Black in the middle, Green below the trim. A brighter green, jade green.
so take the molding strip from the front fender to just beneath the front vent window and end it with a point . Then start another molding strip from a point starting at the leading edge of the rear quarter bulge and take it straight back to the tail lights . This will make the rear quarter panel look longer than the swirl which tends to abbreviate the length of the back of the car .
Black is Beautiful
black is C 8) 8) L
Licorice and pistachio sounds like a bellyache but I could dig the Hirohata scheme. And more molding play. But theres no need. We will have to resolve something with the headlight thingy from the rendering. So I'm done with the side for the moment. Fresh metal pics when theres some free moments. :) :arrow:
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The Flintstones are gonna have to get a different car. :)
Yea I ruined it for Bedrock dudes, they would bang shins now. Dino has a place to sit now, though! Which brings to mind...
I saw in the 59 Pontiac sales brochures how rear passenger heads are completely under the rear window. Chassis guy got big eyes looking at back seat room so I sat in that underseat pan. Back seat will just have to be foam pad right there but it should be a fairly usable seat by tubbed standards. Blindly tubbed, that is.
It also dawned on us to go ahead and weld the driveshaft tunnel in because access doors for utilities can be made if and only where needed for easy service. Everything will run down the middle.
Flintstones did have tires, seats, and Fred was the tank. I'll give em that much.
Should have seats tomorrow. Down at the R, V & A (Regular Vise & Anvil) we enjoy dot rodding-
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I got started welding the second footwell in place today.
We have seats! :shock: The mounting conflict was not imaginary according to a quick glance, and I'm told each of these are a grand as-is. Jeepers :!: :?
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^^^
Sure am glad my mouth wasn't full. :)
Seven words and a smiley to boot. :)
All the explanations for these pics are back a ways in the thread. :roll:
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Heres how seat mounting plan C is coming along. By the way, this seat sits comfy as a cloud. I do feel less insane because my height calculations proved out... in order to get the stock seating position with buckets, you have two choices- body lift or notch frame. Our hero is not real tall so this my be the happy place, where it is now. :)
My fore / aft position prediction was pretty far off though. I ended up way forward basing it on stock bolt holes and of course that blows away my seatbelt mounts. This is plan C.
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Only short people need apply. :) It's been a long time since I sat in one of those. I really wasn't aware of the lack of height. I am short, though. :)
Yep, low and wide, my 61 Chrysler also has low seating position, just how many were back then.
Those 59 Model GM's were a whole different ballgame from the 58 models in seating position.
Quote from: "Carnut"Yep, low and wide, my 61 Chrysler also has low seating position, just how many were back then.
Those 59 Model GM's were a whole different ballgame from the 58 models in seating position.
I didn't realize the 58 was oddball in some ways. Gotta love transition years. :roll:
I do suspect that you look at things and go... "Hmm. Needs more hole." Here is more hole for you guys. :arrow:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5HrDBaQklgc/Wuj6eH1s9XI/AAAAAAAAB7o/acLDMSu-s7o27X8lOnFzhpDCXhTp00fcACLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_12110-20180501_165149576371180.jpg)
Everything about 58 chevys is different. Not always in a good way. :)
All the previous speculation about seat position can now be cast aside. Ah. The bottom line is that although higher than stock by over an inch, these seats "sit good" according to all witnesses. There will be no test fitting with steering column nor owner / driver in place. This is it... and I approve. There is plenty of headroom, even if over six feet tall. Much ado about nothing, but if they wanted it an inch lower the frame would interfere.
So that the seat could use shims if desired (it does sit level as-is), I changed the hook and slot mount to a stepped bracket, made a small riser for the front inside mount (still talking about driver's seat), made an outside riser and support, modified the existing seat pan (flatten and trim), then today I made a filler panel for the notch cut out of the driveshaft tunnel. A half inch space or better remains atop the frame rail, tilt and range of adjustment are as good as stock. And its sturdy. The bottom cushion may need a trim at the inside rear corner so it doesn't smush with the seat over halfway back. 7/16" bolts hold brackets to floor at all corners.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4brOEdB7UHM/WvD6_xgMWDI/AAAAAAAAB_s/voqB2TAYDR4YKQDS3WxZrBBcYZqf5DykwCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_15058-20180507_164631820081986.jpg)
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Those two pics show it all the way back. This was comfortable for me.
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glad to see the seat issue resolved .
good job matt 8)
:D :D Nobody's perfect , but at times done beats perfect. I am neither. :arrow:
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Just thought I'd throw this out there...
https://bringatrailer.com/2018/05/10/one-off-factory-prototype-1959-pontiac-el-catalina/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2018-05-11
Here is a 60
http://www.oldcarsweekly.com/features/1100-people-901-ponchos-at-40th-poci-show/attachment/poci-dsc_0634
59 yes (Must be a W-30 bed) , 60 no.
Those Pontiac freaks were cool guys, I just ain't in on that '60 tail light treatment at all.
Here are last Thursday's neglected pics. I am over on the passenger side now, got the front pan and trans hump extension prepped and screwed in Friday but no pic. The driver's side still looks like this. I figure to grind whats left while welding the other side.
Anybody got guidelines for seat belt mount location? From racing, perhaps? Lap belt only here. :?:
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(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CZa0Wo-UZlo/Wvjbyy_QmGI/AAAAAAAACB4/RpPJMFDI5PI2iQDaxzNaamILqW_oXwjQwCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_5988-20180510_170149693978526.jpg)
One more question... does the completed design make sense to you? Its all laid out now and personally, aside from some really amateurish beads on the pans, I have faith that it will look pretty on the lift. I can't wait to see underneath. But I don't want to get overly enthusiastic about what I've done if it looks like a crazy person's floor to other folks. Its my first, I don't know any better. Curious if it looks like nonsense or sense.
looks good to me 8)
Quote from: "chris spokes"looks good to me 8)
Thank you. On a journey like this, the path can be twisty. :?
Here is progress on the passenger side, no extra charge for the required tools list. Rearward seat support (in foreground, bottom pic) has been relocated.
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in regard to the seat belts I have been told its best to mount to the body when the body can be separated from the frame.
Absolutely. My inquiry refers to fore/aft location of mount vs seat. I am told theres a formula or equation to calculate a most effective range of placement. I would think its common knowledge in race car shops but I don't know how to find out. I can just study several different OE cars and look for a pattern then take a guess if it comes down to that.
Another day's work has me near ready to weld in the passenger seat pan and all thats left is the tunnel notch patch after that. It will be strange changing scenery. I am squatted out.
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That's a lot of pieces put together! Flintstone just went the way of the dinosaurs. :)
Yabba dabba do, then... I finished. :shock:
Topside, passenger compartment. :) T'was a victory day at the VA. (Vise & Anvil)
May that part of it rest in pieces as shall myself. Pics after chores. Magnificent, glorious, oh my back feels better already... pics :arrow:
Hang on boys, I'm gonna floor it! :lol:
I fabricated two dozen pan pieces thus far. I need to add corners to the trunk pan in a couple spots, nothing major. Tubs? What tubs?
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Stand by, to go below for that long awaited change of scenery. :arrow: :)
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looks good!
That is some really nice work! :D
Some amazing work no one will see.
Lookin' Good .....LOTS of work there .... 8)
Bob... :wink:
awesome work of art there Matt 8) 8)
Patch work quilt completed. :) What will be used for anti squeak between the floor pan and the frame rails? I sure like those Flintstone wheels. :)
Thank you guys for the kind words, I feel downright home, home on the range. :) And boy could I use a nap. Whew!
KB, its all air. Theres no less than 3/8" clearance, everywhere. Is that what you mean? Mount cushions go right there next to the front inner seat mount point and sit on top of the front of the thick center frame section. Aft from that are the back seat area mounts. Planning to add a pair of mounts directly above the axle at tub time.
Today I completed many weld undersides with body on frame, then lifted the body off. It did not collapse! Moved body forward a half inch to jive with chassis guy and had him re-check fore/aft position. Check. Moved on to changing location of tail end mounts from tip of rail to inside corner. Pic angle is from inside trunk looking at the back of the passenger tail light area.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RPSjdMl8_Jo/Wv9AMqAB-XI/AAAAAAAACGM/7mnCWI7mDnMAHbqQh5_quYjc8ZT4NtHUACLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_32625-20180518_132203564550843.jpg)
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Ok. Unless a 400 lb. driver and passenger are in it, there should be no contact. :) I'm thinking that mentally, you are somewhat relieved. :)
Sure am, just had a nap. I'd be willing to make a small wager on the weight capacity. I can't come up with a pair of 400 pounders but maybe 300+. It will not rub.
Floor frame and body mounts all welded except the front two frame mounts. Body, in position for best floor frame clearance, is aligned with chassis center line within 1/8". With mount rubbers in and bolt holes aligned, I put 600 lbs of humans on the tunnel and had them bounce hard. This with an observer alongside to look for overall deflection, and me with my head in the trans hump, I am happy to report that none of us could detect any bending anywhere. Jiggling side to side caused a slight motion at the cushions under the trans hump but they are not attached. In other words structural integrity seems great even at this point. Lighting sucked in the trunk so the pic was crap. Just imagine the big boy bouncy house floor test. They didn't want their picture took. :lol:
I made these today and tacked them on. Firewall body mount frame brackets. They are too low right now, I'll need to cut tacks because I didn't nail it first try. But I think I'll wait until I can fully assemble all the mounts and just use shims until then because with these barely reach bolts snug... one floor weld hits the frame. KB. :) :wink: The toe board seam really hugs the frame like a bear and I wouldn't mind adding a pair of cushions there also. If anything rubs after I've had my way with bolting down the body and panel gaps, one of two things will happen... I'll move it up until it doesn't, or stuff like goes on top of rod frames can go there. Was that the right thing to say? :?
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Another gut shot:
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-K18qZjc-1Cs/WwSjYiG_sLI/AAAAAAAACGw/m8BpiP5ziBM4z1DiYCRjRsRQLkryM9M-wCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_7415-20180522_160851558405125.jpg)
Just about have this patch trimmed to zero gap now. Back to outers until more stuff is here. Trigger was pulled on the 335 meats. Speaking of meats, nothing like crusty hamburger to weld to. :roll:
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Looking at this makes me aware that I still need to work on my patience level when doing pita items. :) It's easy to forget how many hours nice stuff takes. :)
Its truly not that nice. A metalshaper could spot slop all over it. I'm sure you can see that I'm a total slob with tubing. Its uneven all over the place except where it counts, and the welds are plenty so they would be adequate. My cues come from observing vehicle construction during a decade of crash work and thats also easy to see. Welding and fabrication study prior to accepting a position like this would normally be a given but I just kinda scooted over into it. The patience thing... well... for me finishing does not mean stopping, just new blurred scenery. My patience (with cars) cannot be finite, it must be infinite or I cease to exist.
Figured I had better get the bumper up there before zapping away on that patch. Good thing! Bottom rear corner needed to come outward. Got that but now theres a small rub to address at the very bottom yet. Only have a couple bolts holding the bumper on right now. Had to add some rectangles to the frame ends flush with the outside and put holes for the rear bolts.
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nice work 8) 8)
Thanks, Chris. 8) Have a seat and run your hand over it if you want. I hope to improve the straightness once I finish grinding the inside. Getting to both sides with a slapper and dolly is barely within reach from any direction, which adds difficulty for me.
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I vote no for the "murdered" look. :roll:
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Perhaps a little funky like a funhouse floor but the right side trunk pan is in. Dot was here :D Center section of pan, in between tank braces will be left open until ride height, tank shape at fuel sump, etc are hashed out. Tires are on the way.
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The square holes are at body mounts. Next is to dig out a lead repair and fix dents above the quarter patch on the other side.
Last October I made a patch for the left quarter. Now is the time to straighten adjacent areas. The deep crease was dug out during stripping but the rearward portion of this spot was covered with lead. I got down to steel and started working dents out. Forgot to get a pic of the trunk pan after grinding.
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Thats supposed to be bat-fuzz around the windows. :lol:
So if the windows have bat fuzz, does that mean that there's naked bats somewhere???? :)
A country bat can survive. I was able to spelunk my way into their hideout all unbeknownst-like holding a sheet over my noggin and flush them out whilst collecting the loose fuzz what falls off when they fly away. See? There was a mess of em and I nearly got flocked myself, leastwise I reckon I shore would have if I'da turnt loose of that flocking sheet. :shock:
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1PeFYyij5YM/WxXHWHynQbI/AAAAAAAACMI/53zi5c3dGRMfZ5FwmJ1twJzZdl9VnqSSgCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_13818-20180604_165632426465399.jpg)
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(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oqraN8g4d4E/WxXHiJItgUI/AAAAAAAACMQ/Q0KwRPZe8_wM3Gc8dsRnJehjlYZB7126wCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_13818-20180604_170053465724252.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bReyHonIGFU/WxbOpxxFfCI/AAAAAAAACMk/br3NvGM0RqARFGIXXgzZXdp2MlFKS0QFACLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_13818-20180605_1031441818630217.jpg)
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(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dAzqQbZfQqk/WxcgJYl0wmI/AAAAAAAACM4/3zRCQiKsPyAEbHu0mrLFdAZyS7MxCtw6wCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_9056-20180605_1703181294798737.jpg)
Matt, I suppose I should thank you for showing more rust repair. I'm not to far away from doing that on the F100. I should be in practice for self control of maximus eruptus. :)
I know how it is being annoyed by constant unwanted communication with younger people and wishing it was stoppable. You know my only solution.
Being a seasoned old truck builder, you should expect rust on your projects or our customers'.
No thanking required. :)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9oRFaBrNlJg/WxgS5iR8M0I/AAAAAAAACNM/WjCugeFVxZ89vfjNGB1rPMmak8M7G5cngCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_12625-20180606_114754703282939.jpg)
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Those invisible wheels must be real expensive! :)
Quote from: "kb426"Those invisible wheels must be real expensive! :)
Yes, but they are very hard to steal. :D
Sorry bout the AM grouch post, turbo guy killing me with nonstop chitchat. :x
those rims make it real easy to check the air , you can see it !
You guys have never used levitating electromagnetic hubs? :?
Chassis guy is lengthening control arms 3/4", should let us see a viable fore/aft axle placement before cutting. I got the quarter thing done and inside of it tended to then started on the left trunk pan alterations and prep.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-u9Np8CzMFsc/WxigV4sIZkI/AAAAAAAACNY/NjaeB6K8leQdIYSzK7IgiR0kcnFDYChwwCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_21710-20180606_131918241459074.jpg)
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That was like being dragged through a knothole in the fence by the tail, weren't it? Next item up on the price is high... trunk latch support area.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mydQ4PTcm9s/Wxnfk30YN6I/AAAAAAAACOY/qHIVb53aoTYwAS496Ko7yCftTZ3q_CiCQCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_26222-20180607_165935394417758.jpg)
I'll have Monday to work on the Pontiac but then am switching to assembly of the yellow 71 Chevelle.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-octDPmvEf9s/WxrZ5mRuQjI/AAAAAAAACO4/AAKgbUgscAwfOzPup3jr_Femx0IME-tiACLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_26222-20180608_111813588610785.jpg)
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(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eldSy4PUtL0/WxrbJj96XCI/AAAAAAAACPQ/o33WrhWXW6YNejT045gzXY8gJpb8EjYbQCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_26222-20180608_1246001213814466.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8oTyDxuEli8/WxrbNEwUnBI/AAAAAAAACPU/p-VDDANCyJYG3B8tBHzlsNc4pptuik72QCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_26222-20180608_112025397893523.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/--dHy6j0yHEg/WxrblvQT8RI/AAAAAAAACPg/qFDaFb2GfP0el4411J5TPJ-BrVV2pUH1wCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_26222-20180608_124648612274734.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pXsXIYT1us4/Wxrbwyk138I/AAAAAAAACPk/Ubav_3jsF5kUTg9UVibeBtopPhlU7SfigCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_26222-20180608_130500674703014.jpg)
We've been watching this other projects so long that I had forgot there was a yellow chevelle. Chalk that up to old and no memory. :)
Yep, and everybody knows what a Chevelle looks like already so guys I hope you can find another build or two to support your pic watching habits. Think of this as the end of a season of a show on TV... look forward to next season because its reruns or nothing for a spell. :lol: :arrow:
Its a decent stopping point for me mentally, floors done and body mounted. But I figure I'll walk to the wrong spot by default when heading for my toolbox for quite awhile this time. Better find myself a new favorite ratchet to buy this weekend.
Secretly I am fiending to lay hands on the blue Model A. And I figure chassis man will have some time with the Cat. And all I gotta do is hang Chevelle stuff we do have and point out what is missing... its a job. :)
Its easy to forget some gallons that pass under the bridge so here is a link for Chevelle flashbacks. What I did was a very small percentage of the work done. The customer opted for show paint once body work was complete, and of course then the job bucked against the painter somewhat in the booth. Its a harsh gear change from freehanding metal fab to show car assembly.
http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2018/02/
Today we reached a point of having established rear wheel dimensions. Good stopping point for me, and it is wide open for chassis guy or epoxy guy to play with for a spell. I did not forget about the tight pan clearance at the toe board seam. I placed sleeved mount bushings at the trans hump brace positions and got them in at all four firewall body bolts too, and using shims I determined that there will be no trouble even if we want to shim at the firewall mounts for more clearance. I may end up suggesting pads at the tight spot on either side if it ends up too close for comfort.
Anyhoo- over the weekend I put window chrome back on the current edit-
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QNzKdrSCPRY/Wx8LP5zCxDI/AAAAAAAACP0/6rQc8mcFTxI3KIvEgNjLA_AftDHMAYjUwCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_1555-greycat18209559306.JPG)
First thing today, I lengthened the rear control arms by 3/4".
Heres the tool I made last year... for this day... its the 16 gauge clock hand looking thing on the hub. It has a bent over and padded foot. I put it at 12 o'clock, hung the tire over it and set the jack height so tire touches tool foot and floor. Then rotated it to 3 o'clock and it went but touched wheelwell. So I cut off the interference and proceeded to set depth by simply moving the tire inward with it hanging on the clock hand tool. Its semi-approximate but theres plenty of room to spare.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3E-z5NHlNc4/Wx8LU2fTHgI/AAAAAAAACP4/o6xHDIeeNFAVMajRhb0IIUnILpslfBWGQCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_1555-20180611_113015888987624.jpg)
With me so far? Wood wheels and clock hand tool make sense yet? Gonna be a 14" wide tire on a 12" wide wheel with the wheel mounting surface centered, 6" back space and offset if I'm using terms correctly. I think. Tubs should be cake. Trunk hinge pockets even get to stay.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FlQUg_okm-M/Wx8LZ-G8dLI/AAAAAAAACP8/ra4JXkVVFIc5khKrxWl8SPEGy2lSNt2cQCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_1555-20180611_151448579175034.jpg)
Looking like a ten inch wide wheel may work up front. Hold down the fort while I go hang one up. :arrow:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7ksf-m31igg/Wyk7IHWJ8iI/AAAAAAAACUw/_gI_NLnvswwUNlp96CTjZqjY5JzFlh8BwCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_17199-20180619_1203588784989714094703607.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-S-QjDOhYvKk/Wyk7CqO9KWI/AAAAAAAACUk/Qy35Vf4kRMY-jmZx7yn2piF9gVzs1JwzQCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_17199-20180619_1201084051325080623417392.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Jz26FqUoiNM/Wyk7FM8ZERI/AAAAAAAACUs/U69oazHV0o0X6OIevpq6cvEsMY0JE03DQCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_17199-20180619_1202266079517678078610305.jpg)
I'm proud that we all use CAD! :)
8) You cut it... instead of the other way around. :wink:
Sneaking in another pair of body mounts for a grand total of 16. This is just ahead of the axle.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZXtuLLxIKEk/WymQS7pXRdI/AAAAAAAACVA/xq0R5jo_M3MiMY0-xnY74MuFA8EFAUJOACLcBGAs/s1600/20180619_165145.jpg)
That inner wheelhouse bottom edge in the previous pic is going to end up covering half the height of the frame rail and following it's shape.
You did say 16? That's a surprise. :)
Well, theres two at the core support. Firewall has doubles like stock. Then theres the two in the seat track indent on the tunnel. Two under the back seat bottom, then this new pair at the rear seat back. Then the pair at the inside corners of the back of the wheelwells, then the two at the tail. Math ain't my strong suit but thats where I got the number.
I made one tub inner wall and got it screwed in. The flat spot on the outer is the only spot it may need clearance work. Ther regulator is right behind that bumpout though so I'll wait for tire on wheel to modify that make the rest of the wells. I'll probably make this for the other side after I fix a little fender bender job.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Cbyg5vqDNa8/WyrRu_Z5KMI/AAAAAAAACWA/ibw9lD8xFPUMhtY068stL6NkK3UdWz_EQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180620_165454.jpg)
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(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_HqrmpdEya4/WyrRwrsdgnI/AAAAAAAACWE/OSkzZ1Lb90gWM-HoMIwolXC-WuLJj-NbgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180620_165144.jpg)
I want some of that magic cardboard that turns into metal. :)
Psst... Its called prestidigitation paper. Ask for it at your local alchemy suppy outlet.
Bonus pics to check for awakes :)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-p4ErsAewros/Wyk6zWsXuvI/AAAAAAAACUg/4GxmamFa0vU4UL84BhfzxQPOHsDFZ6m_wCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_17199-20180619_1215393140771658361527531.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ta-0CDOlxUw/Wyh_h5CiCdI/AAAAAAAACUU/kWBfrWMv474Hdb7UtJVGmuoPdu1yP22xwCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_17199-20180618_1639095766228447739956636.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oC-B7OjEJsk/Wyh_NK27gRI/AAAAAAAACUI/4qhvem_yD60wA6kG6UNZWeg-nVSjtJnJQCLcBGAs/s1600/tmp_17199-20180618_1541328844567502115340804.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xxq6DSEUp_Y/WyqNf2llYII/AAAAAAAACVY/wygENoS-rhIxNoPZE4WmjWXCRHD6YnrbwCLcBGAs/s1600/20180620_102252.jpg)
:shock: :D 8) :idea: :!: :arrow:
The coyote gets me the most excited but not because of aesthetics. It's an ugly fat object but it does produce satisfaction in other areas. I'm awake but not for long. :)
You said a mouthful, it sure is fat and ugly. Hey but look, theres gennie steel under the patchwork on the body. At least its not all hacked. And it looks more like a chicken coupe than a shack.
Bonus fender unbender-
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PaVDvRofseA/Wyvb4FNKzFI/AAAAAAAACWo/bbUjtHxX6ug6e8upNgSgzT5nUenynYgEACLcBGAs/s1600/20180621_083156.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-s0dI3sFaXts/Wyvb6EpAghI/AAAAAAAACWs/vFukUYFLjyU8TMWBSlGaA4i60vIFXsv5QCLcBGAs/s1600/20180621_120449.jpg)
Left wheelwell inner wall screwed in-
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NPFDr5nbw6A/WyvcFpG68bI/AAAAAAAACW0/W1e38G6MlvM_FFK315-b0tlKi6qzzJ8dACLcBGAs/s1600/20180621_115740.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4u4WQoy9syo/Wyw5egyoQsI/AAAAAAAACYk/TeyoKR0_6gMgqrQzb52pJL1fRHE8ypmrgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180621_153731.jpg)
Right rocker exploratory-
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OwgYKDNGUE8/Wyw5hYJtHcI/AAAAAAAACYo/50PxkZrmgL4HeXCPynb1lo03mX8ZhK50gCLcBGAs/s1600/20180621_160718.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NI_kKQ6gjfc/Wyw5vscrtdI/AAAAAAAACYw/8q9peSo6NWUvQWUyst49tvnmZ-R8nQQRQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180621_164823.jpg)
Rubber stapled between metal! :)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2LBn_YmhSiU/Wyw5zogRU0I/AAAAAAAACY4/0LvAHp9gWfE7xzntQKp-DokWt5DhXUznwCLcBGAs/s1600/20180621_164853.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ur_QPNJHmkc/Wyw52lYB2bI/AAAAAAAACY8/noiFgccZusQLa0l2kOMGG7s2rFDS7FNGgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180621_165547.jpg)
Was that a whiff of puke I just got? :shock:
Pretty close, my friend. :) Makes me fearful of what I might find hiding in the F100 before it's ready for paint. :)
back in the late 1970's and the 80's... we bought , fixed, flipped vehicles.
I had a 69 Camaro that the trunk had some dirt & pebbles in it. As I tried to clean out the sides of the trunk at the rear fender quarter area... I soon figured out that some body had used the Camaro's trunk to haul dirt & rocks. The lower quarter area was full of dirt and rocks
I lived at least 3 miles from the nearest pavement until I was 15, in 1980. I always figured the 50 mph dirt roads that cars with frames were made for was responsible for this kinda buildup. Man, you could lay frame and do some sparky taildraggin' by loading one of these barges with gravel. :idea:
Today I cut four access flaps in the door sill plate area and made a cannon bore brush type swab out of stiff wire and scuff pads and scrubbed inside the rocker with foamy rust converter then clean towels. Best I could. Will apply a coating in the same manner plus with brush, when done installing the patch cut from the new rocker. Fit of the rocker was poor.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7vE3kShgF-4/Wy10E0WOitI/AAAAAAAACZU/Ml0_7ozYdN0zbccP2lWde9swfmnNxitbgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180622_120133.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-WrZWjURRizE/Wy10LG8pn6I/AAAAAAAACZY/UAC2gUdB26AMSXqSoMw7223jxoNswOIiACLcBGAs/s1600/20180622_120448.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZzQIvkmZAjA/Wy10QwJWTDI/AAAAAAAACZc/tTvLfc0HFq0wdzAnk09GEiUexrzI7rU8ACLcBGAs/s1600/20180622_120341.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5NGSpjWEZDs/Wy10WsrTo-I/AAAAAAAACZk/M5VyN46rhWUf_AFEyo3C3ZHY2eNYJNF0QCLcBGAs/s1600/20180622_125236.jpg)
Welp... I cut those tacks and removed the patch. Forgot to insert some sort of replacement air stopper inside the rocker.
Here you see the old and 16 ga new, and the wad of scuff pads on a sorta stiff wire that I used to scrub with rust converter then rags. I went for one more good dry scuffing session. Stuff wad through hole, twist and stroke, blow out real good. Then encapsulator on a 1" brush taped to paint stick, to cover areas where moisture can settle.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wNh0_byssgc/WzEh-VBLAGI/AAAAAAAACaA/qpC4Bu9V4-E-488fbvBpQ5MPSI6mgoLSgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180625_093756.jpg)
Before encapsulator, inside rocker. Note remnants of red oxide. Paint was also present high inside the rocker cavity so a wand may originally have been used. :idea:
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QmwA_buV2tY/WzEitYz7cOI/AAAAAAAACaQ/f-83novsOmkyHXnQg-ua_vDN1ZOhVEZ0wCLcBGAs/s1600/20180625_095342.jpg)
No wait, that was the lunar surface. :lol: Heres a pic of a spot I missed with the brush. Phone sees better than I do.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wYDbOo3MmqA/WzEivUQi7-I/AAAAAAAACaU/D7n0VRTEOm0yp5opsYYu4XJPmnNGThRNwCLcBGAs/s1600/20180625_115729.jpg)
Heres an after of the front, inside the rocker. I did a bunch bunch of patchwork up there behind the fender around the lower mounting area and cowl plenum bottom corner.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZtxMdyYqPOU/WzEjC3AjwNI/AAAAAAAACak/taJWbrsLaec_dcUDHJlxqCQXsYkstDBqACLcBGAs/s1600/20180625_115658.jpg)
Heres my new air stop from the backside, surrounded by two part seam sealer
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4CloRFpLPuY/WzEjOsCxEYI/AAAAAAAACas/IiCLeXDDJXoZ3CyJqD_vTNRgissxFr9zQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180625_115831.jpg)
And in behind the patch. Three plug welds on a tab at the top, through the door sill, hold the new piece in place.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XZRrFfQxXv8/WzEi0EVIzxI/AAAAAAAACaY/U9Xl98O5HoYmKk_zJMd1BuJaBSEhl3lsgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180625_115320.jpg)
The patch now-
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UI56RhTTFzQ/WzF3zBUckbI/AAAAAAAACbU/BG1EH72YI_EOUjTToMYmzjeOkXxmGG0tQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180625_170228.jpg)
Between rounds of patch welding there, I tackled another couple small ones above the old wheel opening lip which I intend to hack off.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lHNkm6Axh2o/WzF31kAjVzI/AAAAAAAACbY/RlPq5RuT3YkLw-9ICqJ06rplXyfYJWAEwCLcBGAs/s1600/20180625_170116.jpg)
Then heres the access flaps, welded shut. I am very close to having repairs completed on this side of the car. :shock:
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rnpogjkstS4/WzF3394AnQI/AAAAAAAACbc/p9jhLmdu-QsSbQi2SfycejmNjdHJprr5QCLcBGAs/s1600/20180625_170310.jpg)
Back on the Chevelle tomorrow. Wanting to send it home this week. :)
Been working on other stuffs this week but got word today that wheels (not the ones I have shown) and exterior color have been selected. Interior is down to two maybe colors. I was only told brand on wheels and already forgot it. Shock, perhaps? Anyhow the color choice is mundane so to make it more interesting I'll only say this... boss mentioned me final blocking it. They want it perfect. :? :wink: :roll: :arrow:
Official color hint: What iconic thing is associated with both Halloween and Independence Day :?:
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(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-00LTb7H91jE/WzuzlIzlCiI/AAAAAAAACeE/tKPvCpUhUeYoUE2Vby1alu5L-siA31CJACLcBGAs/s1600/20180702_134523.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Dk8KNikcHiw/Wzuzu3sFp6I/AAAAAAAACeM/TgmHc8TsuPU5lRs2sMxslf8Gny5kl2n9gCLcBGAs/s1600/20180703_110810.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rbAEroOK9Lc/Wzuz1fPtChI/AAAAAAAACeU/nhyJ4BRm87kqTixsuAkR7dO0yHO9aYeHQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180703_122330.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KkHAnha7ojw/Wzv_PjIlABI/AAAAAAAACek/faQeaz_qrHIFKG4j_P_9hffJxfObxqPLACLcBGAs/s1600/20180703_162119.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RvVaJfU2mJ0/Wzv_Rv7Ii2I/AAAAAAAACeo/7yGId8A-SPUNeektHyzLeMebsV7-vtQDACLcBGAs/s1600/20180703_165128.jpg)
Matt, the pics I took of the Pontiac in Pueblo made me very aware of what a large project this and the Biscayne are. Once again, it's not done until every inch has been repaired. Job security for you, PITA for me. I know of a 59 ElCamino out in the country. I would like to do that as a project. You have shined the light on what I would probably be getting into. Did I mention I hate rust lately. :)
Well, with a Camino you get to skip trunk gutters, thats a plus. I don't know if I explained on this thread how the rockers are triple walled but I think the last pic begins to reveal that area. If a guy had a normal 59 body and wanted to build on a solid foundation free from untamed rust... he would need to work from the flat, upright inner rocker out... or inward. First. Then the other way. I figured floors first was the best bet for retaining dimensions.
I will be tackling the outer wheelhouses after the quarter skin lips are solid. Aside from where a tire may rub, a small area, the outer will be left in place and get a new, simple, different inside lip fabbed in order to remove the whole crusty outer lip and allow access for cleanup inside the patched and re-lipped quarter from inside while accessible. :)
And yes, these automobiles occupy a great deal of real estate, do they not? :shock: BIG cars!
Upon further assessment of the rust damage, I've changed my plan a little in order to focus and minimize labor cost. In other words, I will not be replacing the entire lip of the quarter's wheel opening. Outer wheelhouse, yes.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lHOU6IQgwYo/Wz0Amv-xDjI/AAAAAAAACfE/x60qcuBm33M62GJ-i9iHvDSTlQtb-sLjgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180704_120109.jpg)
Bottom seam left open, didn't want to stick to wheelhouse.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SbFWBVH8Mf8/Wz1Mr5AwAvI/AAAAAAAACfs/0pDkfoMF4zoG9Tb8zboe43OVAIJK6c2mACLcBGAs/s1600/20180704_155140.jpg)
This piece will repair the panel which caps the rearward end of the rocker.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dTB7NzTFUkU/Wz1MpSWwDoI/AAAAAAAACfo/3EZthNsxhRYjmcxmiPCLXLY0AIdZG7dRgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180704_155200.jpg)
nice work Matt 8)
Thank you sir! 8)
I cut flaps and did the rust scrub thing on the driver's side today. Did not find sufficient dirt and rot to merit opening up the leaded seam on this side like the other, and did not find any big holes or perforated zones anywhere on this side. A handful of pinholes scatterd randomly, thats it. Heavy pitting is present on this side, inside the rocker bottom and sill trim plate areas. Thoroughly probed those and deemed all that fit to use. Rust converter is curing inside the rocker now and I"ll use encapsulator and zap flaps back like the other side. I encapsulated behind this patch first thing today.
This rocker end cap piece needs to be tacked where I have the little lip extension screwed in place then I can prep the piece in the vise.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-f31TkUdgP0s/W0Px2LW1zHI/AAAAAAAACgE/8cPq2m6Er-kDuH44cWbw2uU7fX7BpAZQQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180709_165949.jpg)
Then I went ahead and made the patch from a section of new rocker. Its fitted and ready to prep.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-okYIaLr85lA/W0Px4lFGs0I/AAAAAAAACgI/JWCqxGvfGgAREL-cala4aSryHdSyb8YGACLcBGAs/s1600/20180709_165849.jpg)
I sure am glad you have new metal to look at. :)
Buddy, I am just glad to be within visual range of done! :!:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6veWpwz_k1s/W0U_09MDtgI/AAAAAAAACgY/AmZY2Z2ER4sMnRAzk4EulY8t5Tjna0S9gCLcBGAs/s1600/20180710_104744.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pub3RhUL6FA/W0U_3GPOsJI/AAAAAAAACgc/HCx9GcATPqwSyvrXTjLwvES80lUOOOr8ACLcBGAs/s1600/20180710_170006.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YlXcPlbqxFY/W0U_6H8m0DI/AAAAAAAACgg/0uIjEgEyHwAkHsyLQQd2CXxepMFtfWNQgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180710_170135.jpg)
Playing catch up. I get exhausted just watching KB.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XghXWWIkPhc/W0dJ-VpvCOI/AAAAAAAACgw/MATAIeiu0asYFw-KNdnJhb2oal6VHhuEACLcBGAs/s1600/20180711_132513.jpg)
That came out alright but with a wobbldey spot along the bottom due to the different radius on the new part and my haphazard technique. Heres a straightedge up there in case it freaks you out. :shock:
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vI5YStFujV0/W0dKEaAIPVI/AAAAAAAACg0/U_I2PpIspQwEKTnxK_pmAvqOW7KFo_g7wCLcBGAs/s1600/20180711_133133.jpg)
This is across the diagonal seam-
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZGHlhf__ZRI/W0dKHaIb4aI/AAAAAAAACg4/j3kE155mVJkNQPDqcDxFZog-xvWl-2xkgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180711_133105.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HJ8uSUIonNI/W0dKIna_cpI/AAAAAAAACg8/1bYCIBcHKdM3H3lcggXSRkt7H9VMPk8OgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180711_165938.jpg)
Inner rocker treatment done and flaps welded. Since this pic I also welded the scored sides.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JVPv6dmUx_4/W0dKUUu1uiI/AAAAAAAAChA/fsg86qnijhgw1xt1aPjZfE4yGEg9K6MqACLcBGAs/s1600/20180711_165928.jpg)
OK, one corner of the body left...
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yJPIQ86TzZ8/W0eWh-YJ_2I/AAAAAAAAChU/wSy4zzzHC7wjP_4tCDNihFu5TY_KkCi9gCLcBGAs/s1600/20180712_113217.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-42Bl7_OBzos/W0lmH6o4uSI/AAAAAAAACh0/qp7PnMB9XnIBBoabgpn6VcdjrTOku9KngCLcBGAs/s1600/20180712_150031.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TrCr9rEEiIg/W0lmQJfmqJI/AAAAAAAACh4/LKIGD9lKhGo1xKaFY9b4lxnzgdbcBMmkwCLcBGAs/s1600/20180712_165316.jpg)
Had to rush out today :arrow: so no pic. Imagine this cut in three sections and 2/3rds made. :roll:
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gaP_4XZMoys/W0lmSJNrVLI/AAAAAAAACh8/b87sTCGBlLIWU-QA4-Wz5mxZC7RmbqqegCLcBGAs/s1600/20180712_165338.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aq4Y4jKQhuk/W0zTNJ7zObI/AAAAAAAACik/pcsVm76kzskaKUa_9D8K3hPD-_mdcXkTwCLcBGAs/s1600/20180716_085555.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ogd3YN4i9KM/W0zTU6ytYCI/AAAAAAAACio/DXwaUJTljyUDvZebIaLX8w4D9utqCOumgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180716_120916.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FHPEO1JGoIo/W00jAmTJNUI/AAAAAAAACi4/DLI8qdvSQKo5yHdZrrQ2SdA-qEUaHeMfQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180716_164518.jpg)
How about some fresh scenery with a milestone and a deadline? I said I'd be done with metal work on the body next week. Various welding under the body, over the frame (plus some grinding) remains, plus constructing the rest of the inner wheel wells (all but the front section behind the seat)...
...and that should be it. Whew. Except for this, which I have the patch nearly made for. Last rust patch! :shock: :lol:
On the right side, the lip under the wheelwell-
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JnFY37EE4YI/W04oySKF8fI/AAAAAAAACjE/VDHPOWshB28sALgt5pybvanxGd3CNqVfQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180717_121123.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J77pobQg4pk/W04pC1Tz9AI/AAAAAAAACjU/L9zWW6NMumEuQ39z4Q5Ev-tbmTi8cBf4QCLcBGAs/s1600/20180717_121018.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NLWU9Ji_h4c/W04pAgyiBFI/AAAAAAAACjM/H51mPLsZ20YpHcrtIIhha9uM8nPltmYlgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180717_120740.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mUMJgEOfp2I/W097jatXzBI/AAAAAAAACjo/Wbig_aplRGM0EoiCG15Bfj5dOOGJp0nuACLcBGAs/s1600/20180718_123610.jpg)
Nope, theres no holes in that, sayeth the LED flashlight. Sometimes I wish I did not hold myself to the no pinholes standard. It was like chasing rabbits while being chased by warpage wolves, I tell you whut. Heres the inner patch-
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bwuHa07dWok/W097hohsDPI/AAAAAAAACjk/NQAEIg_ExN8eAlGR4x4ODExsCA7kqyWGQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180718_123454.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Lc-0WZPVdN8/W0_QA02tOmI/AAAAAAAACj0/WLLYSe_Gw1ktHVdMbmMMaJdm3u0DHo4pQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180718_160428.jpg)
Stay tuned for side 2 :arrow:
And now... for the flipside. :)
Can I turn up the details a sec? He's gonna use tools. :-o
Story begins at TAD U, where in a slipshod and haphazard manner I'll attempt to make a thing for a place. :idea: :arrow:
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-H4gGERhr3TU/W0_QegQaVzI/AAAAAAAACj8/Ygsr0ooWAqYz7vHFv_duGtMyjyQySGCPgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180718_160204.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bvIWdm-RSoc/W0_Qwcc9mgI/AAAAAAAACkE/3d8RuCgtLLAzAD1RsNDIp2RoFa-piV3jgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180718_160512.jpg)
Awright, theres the thing and the place, now heres the dealy bobber-
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-u6gxwr-rQgg/W0_Q_-6GILI/AAAAAAAACkM/sCcnH0GdaiAsf2oYmA6MuXNmReNwyWlmQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180718_161557.jpg)
Hey that was fun, I just mashed the pedal and it bended that whole thing. Let's ride that other wheel thangy too, can we huh?
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fz8Mwi31rMQ/W0_RTPqsSAI/AAAAAAAACkc/9ZSBAEXLUzIZ4dpa7joDT9uoEluDFo9yQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180718_161929.jpg)
Look out, here comes the tippy part on this pass-
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-K0yOQ_yZ7tc/W0_RfkUfuII/AAAAAAAACkk/fW0BVkC9GN0_3aek5-gDOW5OfQZ3A-kxgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180718_162208.jpg)
Hey, I know! :idea: How bout lets visit the VA-
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-npwkKFZwFH0/W0_RznV5d8I/AAAAAAAACkw/ZBu6Mkb4fXIoLysZN38RzpxpF8GuIcaKQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180718_162714.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7RViDbvkbRQ/W0_SJa3NzYI/AAAAAAAACk4/qOXvZPcnBzgWg57hHCkFNzWtFIgcnnp4wCLcBGAs/s1600/20180718_163659.jpg)
Wohoo, howdy Grandpa! :D Do we have enough tickets left to ride the beady thing again? We do? Twice? This piece might make it into that spot right soon...
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CR8yesB0QLc/W0_SU4HxErI/AAAAAAAACk8/pDm5sbtDlKIEBwD5ZXBx_3rzKLaG_WL2wCLcBGAs/s1600/20180718_164758.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wsMc4V_IR5s/W0_SjCVCGpI/AAAAAAAAClA/K6dUdBettzwo-4LXkhip_zd-MXxuraKQgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180718_164820.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iQKK_fnHlKQ/W0_Sup93FZI/AAAAAAAAClI/9LnogYz8JksEfz_2LVYAIBHhDdZosyc5ACLcBGAs/s1600/20180718_165225.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yrWYOkyg2tg/W0_TCmFTB6I/AAAAAAAAClc/5H6iTdq0inQJVbgeNBXAaEKVLehiWEjDwCLcBGAs/s1600/20180718_165746.jpg)
Whaaa? Time to go home? Aw maaan. Well, at least I had been welding up the leftover seam at the bottom of that previous above the lip patch. Scary part is, I don't think this is a record for most patches. :lol:
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qcemmEiFGC0/W0_S5EFq16I/AAAAAAAAClU/1bbBffGZvHwGFiEf2aJs05PC2uT2_uHLACLcBGAs/s1600/20180718_165518.jpg)
And now- for the thrilling conclusion of the barf war segment of this presentation. :D
Had to squish is some more then fine tune it with channel locks...
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WiEreVNxjEI/W1DNSw2w7sI/AAAAAAAAClw/6nuiud--DycilbpycA-9dNmRdNEIx2JsQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180719_092347.jpg)
But it went. After I cut it. :roll: :lol: In my defense, the wheelhouse goes around the quarter brace right there so. :)(
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-61R_t6aZcG4/W1DNWLSEBsI/AAAAAAAACl0/5BAUDYExE04GaR-nsk7Pb-rladse5y9uACLcBGAs/s1600/20180719_104831.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jH3Rhx5Lf_g/W1DNf9DcUvI/AAAAAAAACl4/u_-lhQzrGag7pEGpw5KgvofLZYIwb4mqACLcBGAs/s1600/20180719_121143.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sIlpJxxOpkI/W1DNzoIOLWI/AAAAAAAACmE/p_tUJ-fCWKA3Q9AD_I0cIjFo-phsBFBJACLcBGAs/s1600/20180719_121112.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KYTng8SjHiQ/W1DOFVyiwQI/AAAAAAAACmM/-vcF1Vej7GM6qjPqcVg6aa567D--9cU0ACLcBGAs/s1600/20180719_123241.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZigSEgBQBiU/W1Ebg3pp_FI/AAAAAAAACmY/Hdaz2dpq9GcNgjTK-mQ4twhXdiz4ocY0gCLcBGAs/s1600/20180719_164519.jpg)
Thats that. I started putting this newfangldey thingamajig together for wheel orderins' and tub finishin'. :idea: :arrow:
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oeafJrDBEpQ/W1EbkX4gt1I/AAAAAAAACmc/e0hBUmT2JBorb4TiJcd2RDUsA3_TigeBgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180719_170100.jpg)
English wheel became your friend for a bit. :)
I dream of some day using it in proper context, too. :)
Not much to show today, short day. Been making CAD patterns to close up the tubs except for the front panel.
I put the Wheelfit rig in place at our estimated wheel dimensions: 20 x 12" with 6" back space. Its a little tight inside and loose outside but brake rotors are not yet in place. Plan is to proceed with bodywork (which might be me also) and fab the front panels of the tubs after true ride height can be established. Pic shows it 2-3 inches above our desired ride height. Those tub front panels are small and of little structural concern. Next, I'll finish up the big upright well sections and close up the wells at rear.
This tire fit thing ain't particularly precise but it is a help.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cWEe3oLezaA/W1JEdf7VwVI/AAAAAAAACm8/K4GVN1ek660Rh3ouiWbuI75oT-hqmvH2wCLcBGAs/s1600/20180720_120433.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VBdIjto3hGM/W1JEiIVeCiI/AAAAAAAACnA/pwGa0iNrGZcN3KbPxxjH_uVO0PWHyAFlgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180720_105541.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-miKPWEMga5M/W1JElB_tqkI/AAAAAAAACnE/AowVSWLutU8noKq8ykB8608MsOU4mFHBQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180720_120225.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nR8NwBL7Nb0/W1JEoSzq1WI/AAAAAAAACnI/wKnEf9Xrorsp-og1FmUDnuk-HzDTyffagCLcBGAs/s1600/20180720_120242.jpg)
What is the throat on the bead roller behind the car? That looks to be at least 36". :)
That sounds right. It is from Woodward Fab. Its my other buddy. :)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QolsYGRW9ck/W1YSAD95TnI/AAAAAAAACoE/VZQXiZLBe2EF-rw883eMRNdu9lvr2dR3wCLcBGAs/s1600/20180723_122350.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gx7CZEKaZn0/W1YR-t-6gfI/AAAAAAAACoA/yGE1hQGPGbIcHgE1dlsdBUqb5W-_rECJQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180723_122434.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GyAZP3WZpwE/W1ZgLE3cSzI/AAAAAAAACpA/hsmYObLd2IUK3F6WjETBU31gHw5O3IQ3ACLcBGAs/s1600/20180723_155324.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GyhicSi0l2o/W1Zge7f3f-I/AAAAAAAACpI/pIjASM4uHtMp9I9Qk3mXSShDg1LHB8vNQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180723_170031.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KFaSS70GDoE/W1YSmRhmH2I/AAAAAAAACok/jUOkLGZI2F0dkEoiFrav4GCRS7q37b5nACLcBGAs/s1600/20180723_082853.jpg)
The chevy pic brings back memories of the 53 I did. Starting with all the holes I filled on the firewall. :)
When we sat it up on the firewall there was one lone stud sticking out so we put pallet wood with a hole in it across there. T'was fairly steady for under floor work that way. I put that pic up for enjenjo in case he would catch a enjoy off it. :wink:
I'll try to show some different angles here.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GCrlhiQvS-M/W1e6bWsnWwI/AAAAAAAACp4/zHdLy7JclqUvylmIifJ1NRYcrP6eRmJKgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180724_164755.jpg)
I'd had that diagonal hiding in the shadows partially welded to the floor frame and rear window shelf but I added 14 ga L tabs for a solid connection. You can kind of also see how the rear facing panel does have some bulge to it. It would clear if flat but this looks less hokey.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aM8V37Jhens/W1e4Q6i1jEI/AAAAAAAACpk/2WW2vp5DWR02NG5gQ-wHqWb4T0NCAVoJQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180724_162026.jpg)
In this one you can see where I've lopped off part of the hinge pocket brace and anchored everything to the intact pocket. Another plug welded panel will close the trimmed area. Both that diagonal vertical tube inside the trunk and the diagonal flange seen here sit close to the front edges of the pocket but I do not plan to weld there unless a need is percieved. Might make it easier to seal things up. Anyway where the inner big panel goes out of sight on top, theres a flange on it that meets the tray plus crosses the L on top of the tube. Right where the corner of the window bed panel is. So theres layers tied together. Seen at front are three welds which connect to the remnants of the big V braces behind the back seat. The rest of this will get built with actual wheels n tires because we don't know just how low we can go until then. Lastly, squint up at the very top of the well and you can see rust throughs where the roof rail connects to the wheelhouses. Um, I don't know yet on that.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TsOb7gB4c9g/W1e6D14_FpI/AAAAAAAACpw/fVpKtcTBJF0JeJvtn4-Oman7XME0-KpvQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180724_164702.jpg) :)
Did not get an end of the day pic but the inner wheelhouse and rear lower extension are welded in and the trunk floor corner patch is made and prepped. The rear panel is made and screwed in but lacks steps on edges and top flange work plus could have a little more bulge to it. Thought I had to swap jobs Thursday morning but found out I can keep going a bit more before passing it to Keith. I hanker a vacation, and how. Mental pulse weak. :)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-F0HhlR8NyFI/W1keL5KrfaI/AAAAAAAACrI/fdcYtIUmalwZmi1HuvbbKesWmFDVfPZ9QCLcBGAs/s1600/20180725_153438.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SSDxIcFcNfA/W1oFyo6Rx5I/AAAAAAAACrc/iFwAbnMKzewcrL_q4T-pcF5xW4Q21R24wCLcBGAs/s1600/20180726_121730.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-R0d_zX5BZi8/W1oF3iuLYXI/AAAAAAAACrk/sTc0VXo2MesVbJDhBeV0AVve1HhlnKgWgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180726_122159.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-A4fc85TbvHQ/W1oF5k7iUUI/AAAAAAAACro/xtIkqkPhAPAfGGnh4mdoNj9ajyWb4lNnACLcBGAs/s1600/20180726_122227.jpg)
I just laid the trimmed out center pan section in there with a couple screws, and thats the original fill neck passage just sitting in place loosely. CAD gas tank design begins early Monday then the epoxy work starts. I have a 5 hour Friday to lift it off the frame, finish welding under the body, then set it back down.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NOssPaRHpdI/W1pbZ38b5sI/AAAAAAAACsA/2HFnZUdrFogeNfSmeOunB0QEM8tc4NaegCLcBGAs/s1600/20180726_143922.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uk2d8Ug5URg/W1pbc5IY7gI/AAAAAAAACsE/N2rz0GxNl_YS50ZUTySS2eirGoEhNq1bQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180726_143941.jpg)
The wheel fitting contraption doesn't hold it straight or even centered but we can get an idea of lateral clearances here-
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jbhiO3GHaR8/W1pbg3PpY6I/AAAAAAAACsI/JzVnIgozPZUelBizyc55kXXThDbxpEF6QCLcBGAs/s1600/20180726_170006.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-I9N4-aDVNbk/W1pbhsSP2qI/AAAAAAAACsM/6CJIa3WIZ8MQMqdevXgsyaZG5wwV1lveACLcBGAs/s1600/20180726_170039.jpg)
You can spot half the body mounts in this pic-
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_LlS0IqB7o4/W1pbjiJ2zsI/AAAAAAAACsQ/QiL1Y7xRboc6ZMGoLqUlRj_rW64PB2C-QCLcBGAs/s1600/20180726_170136.jpg)
Yonder lurks old blue... get used to it!
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LFqQtSBoVHI/W1pbl2HgzOI/AAAAAAAACsU/pNmoGYRsaDEmFn7aYcgljeQSFvixo1HdQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180726_170114.jpg)
You know that hand gesture when you finish something and act like you are knocking the dirt from your hands with smug expression? "Thats that." :?:
Yep, got under it and finished, then put it back down. For the next guy. :arrow:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dIqjpu-Xc_A/W1ttVWwKAkI/AAAAAAAACsw/4piqVAbwXQ0fptgH_HG_VB0mJgoVtj5jACLcBGAs/s1600/20180727_122945.jpg)
These enormous back to back jobs hurt. No rest in between is just contrary to my spirit somehow. The long term fatigue is impossible to shake if a guy can't heal. Whew. Did anybody get the license number of that truck? Ow.
Still need an aspirin. The new job is a nogginful, wow. Anyway, heres the start of a gas tank mockup. Its 7" tall so will need a 2" pump hump at top center and a sump hump of about 1/2" under the pump.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1ZVvxwuYSHU/W1-hJW6QdEI/AAAAAAAACw4/yxk1fOsM95AsGmlBnZ62hDs22pOxNoFTACLcBGAs/s1600/20180730_161504.jpg)
They hung a door and took molding clips off the quarter. I hear the core support needs to come down more.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-u9VSBiWgkAA/W1-hN8nG8pI/AAAAAAAACxA/e_g8HSbvaBgHKCPUzYHu_hvbyxIKINF4ACLcBGAs/s1600/20180730_161703.jpg)
Both doors still fit good :!: );b( :P>
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SZ5ud6NAhBs/W2HvAiz0WtI/AAAAAAAACzA/gl-xVFXAT_ce3qD3VNlv8lY0rq581jjCACLcBGAs/s1600/20180801_122357.jpg)
That bumper looks like 150lbs. :)
It is a chunk, I guarantee. Reason why the baffle thingy is still on the core support is that its part of it. Be a good place for bolts, but no. Its spot welded. :roll:
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NFNVht0y9GM/W2Jd8xgDTOI/AAAAAAAACzg/W4A3AJM1Y70jsEZRJg_Z_3ztyY4Q-w7dQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180801_165944.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oEVO9pcnx2M/W2OhN7nSyWI/AAAAAAAACz8/2U-Jfp75XtYb0IPZcir44DRskgmMbbvbgCLcBGAs/s1600/20180802_123526.jpg)
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Everytime I look at this, Big Bertha comes to mind. :)
Quote from: "kb426"Everytime I look at this, Big Bertha comes to mind. :)
A lot of powder would sure fit in the trunk. Probably be easiest to toss it off a B-29 though, you'd need pipeline for a barrel to fire it from. Railway mount would not be big enough, it would have to be a ship. I was just clearing all that up for Keith since he's on it now... they were saying the car is a land yacht. No sir. Barge? Getting warmer. This heres a liner, boys. The owner is going to need a generously sized sized harbor. :lol:
Anyway yeah, no pics but Slick has whacked the front horns off the original frame and is adapting them because they are sort of complex and the frame is half a foot narrower at the front now. The reason you can't see any of that is that darn welded-on baffle. He needs to drill that off to proceed, I think.
I sure am glad to see him focusing on what to actually do with that headlight mod thing from the rendering. At least if it does end up like the Pfaff rendering and with tight hood clearance, we could plumb a hat to the "eyeblack" ducts. :roll: I tried like heck to do a photo edit with different treatment. Wasn't working out. Now would be a good time to push a better idea through :arrow:
I may have to resort to pencil, theres a wicked and simple front end treatment in my head for it. Bonneville-esque but kustom.
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Will the bumper be in the original location on the body as compared to the grille and valance?
Quote from: "kb426"Will the bumper be in the original location on the body as compared to the grille and valance?
Yes, see post before last. The one with the jack. No tucking anticipated but he will probably fit it a wee bit closer than stock if possible.
Frame modified to hold bumper-
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neat job looks like it was always there 8)
Quote from: "chris spokes"neat job looks like it was always there 8)
That straight-on view made me do a double-take because you can't tell how much it drops. Slick builds custom frames for super-low bagged pickups fairly often at home so he has lots of practice at making things look like they belong. I told him it is beautiful. Now they are planning to move the rear frame crossmember (came just tacked in, I think) two inches rearward. Not sure what thats all about but hey I put mounts back there! The car is sure to be a stunner, dark as night when done. 8)
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They are going to use the original pair of body mount nuts on the tail member now.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uPFW4EP2-0I/W3cf4PinADI/AAAAAAAAC_U/HQIhY7O0LHMTUUxytvwm9bbojD-5OJ4VQCLcBGAs/s1600/20180817_130733.jpg)
Not to be picky, but I would LOVE to know how far that tie rod is screwed into the tie rod end ..... :shock: :idea:
Bob... :wink:
I think you can call in on Nikki Sixx's late night radio program with all your love questions. :lol: :arrow:
the wood wheels appear to have a few miles on them
Quote from: "Crosley"the wood wheels appear to have a few miles on them
I think they oughta get shod in set-screwed bicycle rubber. :lol: When I asked about another additional set, I was told we're getting "the metal ones" and OK I'll believe that when I see it. :roll: Alchemy has achieved critical mass if we're making trees with steel now. :wink: :idea:
Looks like they figured a way to ditch the corner brackets and run exhaust out the bumper tips :idea: :arrow:
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HBVAPxojpWk/W3tVUwbd6jI/AAAAAAAADCI/xoH67K2YKugPdNh5cgkqyYDy5ZobvdwMwCLcBGAs/s1600/20180820_170205.jpg)
No Cat progress today. :(
But in the interest of Pontiaction, can you tell which wimpy set of marks are a couple weeks old? The innie or outie? Boss likes to keep a few fresh ones around but I ain't very brutal.
This is him 8) This is me :0-0 ...and those are the Coopers, there on the floor. Intertwined.
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Darn crickets.
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Hot diggity, they started sliding paper on it! :)
So it begins-
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I heard everyone has seen bondo, sooo... :roll: :arrow:
Hey but the owner was by today and I am happy to report that exhaust outlets will be UNDER the bumper tips which get to STAY. :D Both bumpers will be tucked and bolts shaved. :)
Any word on color?
Quote from: "kb426"Any word on color?
Yessir. Black. 8)
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Is it common to cover the whole car with a coat of bondo? I've heard that before but not from a shop that's still in business. LOL
LOL all you like, thats a fairly direct jab, man. :? You sure go to a lot of car shows for someone who knows so little about show cars. :P What you see is par for the course, my friend. :)
I meant no disrespect, Matt. You are correct, I know little about show cars. :)
No worries. Less work to not show this step. I'll update when the car is finished.
Skim coating the whole car is the way you get those great reflections in the paint. Most high end cars are done this way. Unless the owner wants a metal finished car. Then instead of skim coating it, they spray on several coats of high build primer to do the same thing. Back in the day it was done with lead, and 30 coats of "hand rubbed lacquer".
I've posted enough builds to know that rust makes people go can't you buy a better car, and that a skim of filler sets off bad bodyman alarm when nothing is further from the truth. I've not had a customer opt for all primer rather than filler. My take on it is this: First theres an epoxy layer. Every other product is polyester until final primer.
Show car SOP goes like this
Sand off bulk of existing material to assess panels.
Blast. Epoxy. Metal work. Spot epoxy topside. 1-2 coats
Filler. Polyester primer full application 2-3 coats.
Sand, Poly primer spot application 2 coats
Sand. Acrylic urethane catalyzed primer surfacer, two coats. "Final"
Everything gets a coat or two of "wet-on-wet" sealer, probably same product mixed as primer-sealer. Sometimes it gets dried and sanded too.
Then paint, right then or next day.
The way I came to view polyester primer is as the glaze coat.
I will seize the urge to not post mud stuff or really anything body wise until its grey. My reason just follows my moral pattern... I show what I do, in detail. I respect the other guy plus don't have the ability to closely follow the works of others. Frequent updating is a habit thats really easy to break but folks do count on some level of persistance from me and I'm aware of that whether I can sense it or not. So I contribute as I can. Depend on that!
All these skims and glazes sounds like a dairy aisle. If you're confused, ask and get your head bit off, haha. But yeah perhaps I need a mud and rust disclaimer up front and a beware of junk sign. I have ups and downs and find myself with a sufficient number of projects behind me to expect repeated alarms but also... have been around long enough to observe that they only come from those who really do pay attention. So I should go past it smoothly because each car is there so long. Last week I was volatile enough to alarm myself. The one thing I may never figure is why online I'm the guy needing slack because of being young. I've been hearing how old I am from coworkers since I was thirty. Must mean I am in my prime at work. Ouch.
There were lively discussions about styling on the Catalina. I personally have throwed a whole case of shells at the shotgun approach, figuratively speaking. None of our ideas got any grip, nor did the pro-rendered idea for exhaust outlets. But I threw down a solid fresh idea that really had em staring at it. Still think my ideas for various trim revisions could possibly stick. We stuck a 7" headlight in the outer bezel and it was instantly cool looking 8)
For my next act, I'll replace the face of this panel. I had suggested doing so after fabbing all around it and warping and stretching the bejeepers out of it. Now its a reality. Never leave any bejeepers in anything if you can help it. Seriously, I am shaving seams at the edges and doing as little damage as possible just going for a flat panel there...
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Boy howdy. :) All I have to do is stop when the music does and I might get cake? :D So far, so good. Just a flat panel with a step with only a couple wiggles rolled in it. I'll bend the back edge straight down and overlap in the jamb, probably just plug welds up front also, under the molding. Then I'll see where the end seams lead me. I am thinking trim the new piece directly over the old seam with the old panel's edges knocked down so the new part is flush.
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Here are some pics from way back that may help explain why my current task is necessary. That panel was a "hey, if it turns out good enough, we'll leave it" item. Since its going to be a black show car, they are letting me go ahead and replace it. The repairs shown below were done with the repair above in mind, knowing that fabricating the entire panel was beyond my realm and that this part should be easy if the first repair's result proved unsatisfactory. The decision to do this new piece sure made the mud man smile. But if you examine the pics and follow the story, I swear theres a foundation in logic that you can find.
Call this a prequel?
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Nice panel. :)
I'm curious--do you treat the under panel that showed surface rust before your weld on the new panel?
I sanded and wire brushed, cleaned with SX330 and applied two coats of Eastwood rust encapsulator. The pic is after cleaning.
Good to know your process for taking care of that. Thanks.
Quote from: "kb426"Nice panel. :)
Thank you sir. Still mud ahoy but better than it would have been.
Quote from: "rumrumm"Good to know your process for taking care of that. Thanks.
Its a bare minimal approach. Within the timeframe there was only room for one product and well... thats about the amount of clean rust that encapulator works good on. Acid scrubbing and epoxy would have been overkill there.
Now these first two pics are strictly for educational purposes. :) :arrow: :arrow:
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:wink:
The rest are about exceptionally dramatic fins and trunk gaps and overspray on my masterpiece. :lol:
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It's easy to forget how large that car is. :) That would need about double the primer and paint that one of my truck projects would. Insert noise of calculator whirring here. :)
It looks swoopy... 8) Is this one also going to be painted "Arrest Me Red" :?: :?: :lol: :lol:
Bob.... :wink:
Going black as sin, Bob. 8) KB he sure did cover a lot of ground for a guy nicknamed Footloose. :lol:
I think a metalflake silver roof is in order here :D
Quote from: "chimp koose"I think a metalflake silver roof is in order here :D
I keep fantasizing about stainless roof a'la 58 ElDorado. Honestly, carbon fiber crossed my mind as well but didn't stick.
The car has heap big potential as a flake boat, seriously. Thats the beauty of being a custom kind of bodyman, you get to deplete the budget to a point where the customer only has enough money left for a solid color. :idea: Thats how I keep flaky thoughts away. Flakes are for cereal. :lol:
Pearls, now... well thats another matter entirely. :D Needs blue mica like a hog needs slop. :shock:
I actually thought about the fleetside T today. You just never know what I'll feel like doing, when. :wink: :arrow:
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I used to have a pic of a T pickup which looked as though it may have been made from a Tudor sedan. It looked great.
:shock: Activity! :D :arrow:
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Turns out to be another full application of polyester primer, as insurance for the black show car. Fingers crossed that I don't block that. But I might. :shock:
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This car is gonna be sweet . there are so many features in the body lines that make it interesting . I hate to say it but this car would not suit metalflake except on the roof . The lines of this one need candy or pearl to really set it off . 8)
Candy would be stellar! 8)
Its together again-
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Often, customers need to see repairs completed before deciding on added modifications. Better late than never!
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I did some coaching today, helping Footloose Jr imaginate how to do AutoLoc large bear claws with this design which has so much space in the jamb.
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Thats about where that needs to sit but its just sitting there hung in a slot. This shot is looking straight down the driver's B post with door open a little. Striker has to be all the way inward as far as the nut cage will go, right near the windlace. You'll see.
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He got the passenger door shaved also. No pic.
While coaching in posterboard, I said to myself if we didn't get rid of the ugly window adjustment bolt... we'd be passing up a dang good chance. So, this piece is going to go all the way down the back of the door. All smooth and welded.
If you look closely to your left, you will see the actual Loose Foot. :)
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Heres how its going to still work but with the bolt inside the door. More coaching. ;) The channel has only been smoothed on the bottom, no significant length was trimmed. Where the old bolt is will be welded, and the shell will only be cut out in the latch area.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CVlrHVD2Y7c/XArlgCfPb0I/AAAAAAAAEUE/c1Hv73FM5mQcxsgL5pNRl1Epl1CYskY9ACLcBGAs/s1600/20181207_114938.jpg)
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How could I have forgotten to post this? :shock:
Thats a rear, 20 x 13 or 14", says Schott on it. :!: Yes its made to order and that box is gigantic.
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Its a topsy-turvy world :shock: :arrow:
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Mike wanted to see the bumper upside down. :idea:
Is it :roll: or :lol: or ~:) or does it look like :)( :?: :?: :?: :!:
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That bumper has had the chrome stripped but not the nickle. The plater advised that we could save a bundle by grinding that off for them.
The bear claw is coming along, with extensive coaching-
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Bumper activity! :)
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Fancy engine cover next ?
I think we're calling it the air cleaner. :? If you recall how the 73 Trans Am looked, it had a big fancy bit of ductwork but I think the idea is to visually obscure everything between the valve covers. I could draw up 3 or 5 designs myself pretty easy but its his baby now. I brought him an old set of stock chrome valve covers to play with since the customer doesn't like the Butler logo ones. I can't blame him, personally... I think valve covers are not a place to be seeing welds no matter how perfect. I say that with all due respect because they are amazing as welding and engraving showpieces go. Mike says no names ought to show unless they sponsor, and wants the covers to say Catalina. Me, I'd like to see good old Cal Custom finned no logo painted black with ribs silver. And no matter the outside shape of the air cleaner thingamabob... I'd like to see three humps and nuts on the lid in the middle, or have the original, oblong lid as the centerpiece.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2E8BkfHN4P8/XFOSs_cqBkI/AAAAAAAAFE0/paCbWWCwik4rXPFRFGRDDJnpbDlS3qKfACLcBGAs/s1600/20190131_094935.jpg)
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(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mVMZ3nSSnho/XFOSJMGumjI/AAAAAAAAFEg/wWBQDuHY_4cuqjw9ca239tQYtHHLWPQYACLcBGAs/s1600/20190131_094950.jpg)
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Let the wheel hating begin. :roll:
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so what would this car look like "el caminoed". I THINK IT WOULD BE A WINNER 8)
Quote from: "chimp koose"so what would this car look like "el caminoed". I THINK IT WOULD BE A WINNER 8)
(https://assets.hemmings.com/blog/wp-content/uploads//2018/10/1-4.jpg)
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2018/10/15/an-el-camino-pontiac-style-the-1959-el-catalina-prototype/
8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Gohqhsvz7Cs/XHWHkkWAQZI/AAAAAAAAFVY/_KqOz6UuU3QGsXxuvIgFQmSP_kyAi4M4ACEwYBhgL/s1600/20190226_103340.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xcQ5uMVrD_s/XHWHmSAdSPI/AAAAAAAAFVc/8SrjPS710SAyB12RSLzRYEkDr3UxvEOiQCEwYBhgL/s1600/20190226_103415.jpg)
Nice looking car, it just keeps getting better. The exhaust space is really tight but it works. Hughes Performance transmission? Huh. Think I've heard of them somewhere...
That exhaust space with bucket seats but not knowing what the pipes would look like was just about like building B pillars for the Model A... like pulling something from thin air. Torture-esque. I walk the tightrope of how much to finish vs leaving every option open and try not to screw anyone over who works on it after me. Mike sounded comfortable with the exhaust thus far except (emphasis on except) the tail section. Known parameters being can't have a visible tip, can't point straight out the back or straight at the ground, and nothing which might deposit soot on paint. No fancy ideas flew but he gave noble effort and I haven't checked back in a couple days but he seemed happy Friday. My suggestion was an exit in the wheelwell with a specific angle and cut for a balance of function and stealth.
I have deduced the Hughes connection guy long ago but what the connection is exactly I have not. And I am OK with that. :wink:
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Thats all Mike 8)
This is a miniature mockery of what I envisioned here... vertical above the wedge cut with that angled lower half following the bottom of the grille opening and of course with tall enough fins and set to the coolest looking depth.
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To satisfy my own curiosity, I took a chunk of a pic of the brown convertible 65 GTO that Mike made a grille for years ago and plunked it onto a web-found Cat pic. I was shocked by how good the style looks. :shock: I tried a vertical variant of same and it makes the car look worse. Good eye!
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I like the horizontal bars too. The vertical bars look too busy to me.
Yeah vertical was just awful, wow. I had to see it though. Sent that pic to Mike and he wanted his 3" off each bumper end and inch smaller headlights.
I guesstimated. :idea:
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that grille is a keeper for sure !
Beyond that...
Tucked headlights-
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These two are all me.
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Hope you didn't just eat-
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Back to business, boss wants to send it to the guy, Can we add fogs in the bumper? Yep and I'll slam n' black it-
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Oops, forgot painted lower bumper :arrow:
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5MpnVGnmt10/XIXBhRKtV0I/AAAAAAAAFgY/fQsv1Mw5IZsm9ErW-N_D5pw8t9_ftLxvwCLcBGAs/s1600/catgril11.JPG)
If it were mine, it would oh so very get a half dozen headlights. Imagine the freak value, I think its a wee bit disturbing. :D
what would it look like with just one larger diameter headlight at the outer edge ?
Good question. Be around 20 hours from now before I could explore that but I am also curious. Can you verbalize anything about either of the staggered size ones?
I think that the black space between lamp and bezel is going to be a key thing. It could be a gap or a stripe on the bezel and fine tune the look by how much.
Fairly certain its going to turn out like the bottom one, maybe I won't have to do any more serious stuff to it. The quick n dirty edits seem like a very effective tool but some times I like doing a more finished looking image. This was a grainy little pic but it was easy to do a rough edit with. Only other image I found to work with had lighting issues worse but is much higher quality.
Quote from: "chimp koose"What would it look like if you put the one larger diameter headlight in the place of the outer ones AND used the headlight trim from a 62-63 pontiac acadian to lower the light, filling in the gap below it and also blending into the lower hood ?
In due time, I will investigate this. I am curious. However, single headlights idea drew sneers from Mike. Footloose had the same question about singles. I may just let the PC cool tonight though. :wink: Thanks for the idea :idea: Soon :arrow:
That was easy. Looks Barracuda.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Z07Bc0M88yU/XIcSykDXB0I/AAAAAAAAFi0/qiTbCcXUS8AEncN20iTVRtrZ_2rvWa6PgCLcBGAs/s1600/catgril12.JPG)
The grille & bumper is a keeper .... 8) Use stock headlight assmb in stock or raised position...Are there any dual lamp assmby's that have a smaller trim ring :?: :?: :idea:
The six headlight thing :?: Ahhh....NO... :shock: ( It looks like ca-ca...... :oops: )
Oh...Another thing ...As far as the external headers on the Model A with fenders :?: :?: :?: See the six headlight suggestion... :roll: I don't think it will look good .....The rest of the car is too smooth to do that ....It will look "cobbled"......Too "Busy"....Maybe in 1959..... :lol: :lol:
Bob.. :wink:
I'll take that as a compliment, Bob... on the 6 headed one. Considering the source. :P I saw slices of big pipe as headlight bezels today.
The exhaust won't have any effect on the body so... who cares? :roll: If he needs outdoor exhaust, there it is. Cut a hole. I don't really get why having it over the rail is so much different from under, with no hood sides. :? The indoor routing is sure to be "ugly". :lol:
This was the first one I did, to see horizontal vs vertical. Four or six new ideas came up now though. :idea:
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Tn-OyAmLnCI/XIg_m1MtCII/AAAAAAAAFjw/cpUUJFC6TuAJ89tslCxGic5hglFxk7UBACLcBGAs/s1600/catgril03.JPG)
Mike's new ideas-
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I believe I have found the missing visual element that makes it click, and that the bottom one here would be difficult to top.
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(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-56KvqfqSdpQ/XIjqjPyhjKI/AAAAAAAAFkM/6BCyPJOqbL8YJvNIsYZnV_PpyNfY7IE9QCLcBGAs/s1600/catgril17.JPG)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JWFfisieAEU/XIjqld9SB6I/AAAAAAAAFkQ/fp52mJNdWJQu2ab-Ob_3-DzIBcFrkFrUwCLcBGAs/s1600/catgril18.JPG)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AZOTbzXaazk/XIjqmIuBRFI/AAAAAAAAFkU/BvcNRwblNvYpuHUfOmjpA9nFC8Ow-0rpACLcBGAs/s1600/catgril21.JPG)
How about this for head lights? 5" by 7"
:shock: umm... :? uuuh.... :lol:
DING DING winner winner . I pick the last picture 4 lights ,diamond pattern grille , and the embellishments plus the Pontiac emblem . 8) 8) Most would walk by thinking the car came that way , those who know different would appreciate the refinement . That in my opinion is a truly good measure of a mild custom
Quote from: "idrivejunk":shock: umm... :? uuuh.... :lol:
They also have a 5" round version. :D
Quote from: "chimp koose"DING DING winner winner . I pick the last picture 4 lights ,diamond pattern grille , and the embellishments plus the Pontiac emblem . 8) 8) Most would walk by thinking the car came that way , those who know different would appreciate the refinement . That in my opinion is a truly good measure of a mild custom
Just as soon as I added the grille treat, I knew. 8) Thank you, sir. I believe that one is tough to argue with. :D It ties in the bizarre side molding in a way. There was just too much negative space with the grille plain. ith the painted lower bumper, it needs the bright strip between the lamps in the bumper slot, too. I saw that piece on some car like this, in a pic. The reason I guess I think its the ultimate is because of the "that might be stock but..." factor. Blame it on a Pontiac mind. I sincerely hope they choose edit #21, the owner's style choices have reportedly been unpredictable in some areas.
:idea: :arrow:
Next render project is probably A tails.
Quote from: "enjenjo"Quote from: "idrivejunk":shock: umm... :? uuuh.... :lol:
They also have a 5" round version. :D
:wink: aaah... :? errr.... :-o I bet they do, and plenty! :D
Seriously :lol: You just never know :shock: so... maybe! :!:
They look like they could fuse at least pop cans. Did you get some for the sportwagon? ~:) );b(
Frank, I did ask for Mike's thoughts on halos for it. Positive response. I was so entertained though just now I almost forgot the show-n-'splain part.
Yonder I go-
Here is mysterious expectation-vs-reality shot. All catgril edits (except the Cyclops and Phantom) were sent to the owner, whose style choices have leaned toward the unexpected in some areas.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-S_Qr0u9vqQg/XImctR_Nl7I/AAAAAAAAFms/wI8OSwUTxYYuumkBmFvX4Q1PsUvFMmiRQCLcBGAs/s1600/20190313_170713.jpg)
For example, the flex joint was spotted and nixed. But, but... moving it forward more is the only option since with the hourglass chassis the remainder of the exhaust will be mounted solid. Here are a couple tailpipe shots. He is fusing nearly all of it with TIG, adding rod as little as possible..
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/--Lkk2SlIE8g/XImc2UxyIZI/AAAAAAAAFm0/n_U3etrVElcmhuXMbJ0_nPFbhZjVIdeAgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190313_171058.jpg)
He wants to test this outlet style with a leaf blower to be sure it doesn't blow downward, but this is where she stands-
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ag2lT7vHtJ8/XImc3yc87uI/AAAAAAAAFm4/_v-S9wTXOOw72y5t91W7V_PSswNtUG7FQCLcBGAs/s1600/20190313_171127.jpg)
These hinges, previously shown, are worthy of note because they are not made for a 59. These are the 60 Biscayne part number. Chances are good that you haven't seen this done, especially with Douglas Fir. Pocket-style conversions, perhaps. :idea:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xcRHPr0TcPE/XImcwUj5mNI/AAAAAAAAFmw/_Aix_DRGDzo3neZT2pLAysSmayjkTWEqACLcBGAs/s1600/20190313_170815.jpg)
I like the last front design also but without the v emblem on the hood. I like the stamped in wind splits that continue to a point that stands out without the hood emblem.
Tom
8) Thanks for the cool input, Tom. Pontiacs are my favorite so while I do adore arrowheads on the front of cars, I think you're right. The emblem shown in later edits is merely an effort to refine the image to a more realistic and presentable quality. My assumption that it will be retained is guesswork.
Just as a side note, in person that emblem is the most freakishly disfigured arrowhead I am aware of. It's elongated in such a manner as to have the proper shape from this view only. Due to perspective.
Love that grill on the bottom. I'll through in my votes with the others, that's the deal.
Right on. );b(
Looky, stuff getting did! :-o ~:) :arrow:
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Pmfe4WkLFpI/XJu5D2B1g4I/AAAAAAAAFwg/WnR30PkJDVgvTd4vlyA-08ImZ5VG1wXUACLcBGAs/s1600/20190327_115148.jpg)
Thats fairly handsome, I'd say. :)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eqWtUUMZYHk/XJu5OprEQHI/AAAAAAAAFws/a07kjPdCv9IIjjh-7spgGMW2cHsJ5V6bACLcBGAs/s1600/20190327_115216.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ew4uNHLAqcI/XJu5KUiznaI/AAAAAAAAFwo/ka2zt6KCj_op3JiGPEEn0Y6349-aoReOACLcBGAs/s1600/20190327_115106.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bJOt83CkSuw/XJu5IFek1uI/AAAAAAAAFwk/qFlkB3-fM-gIc49rFj2dQbw207burmq0ACLcBGAs/s1600/20190327_115039.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mhuD2aAq9eY/XJu5Rsj2e2I/AAAAAAAAFw0/D52Zr6LtLLk35ZNaMZZuGEbcuMNDm8ZbwCLcBGAs/s1600/20190327_115254.jpg)
Well, well.. ~:)
The grey Cat is in the grey room.
:shock:
8) :D :!: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lMDvN2oUUDs/XKuDwptyODI/AAAAAAAAF6M/-GMFqa5FngUnjOiSmAfPsKVqT-2OahfhgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190408_083808.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rH6vKJdDWuM/XKuDySXPYjI/AAAAAAAAF6Q/AEqduRMkNCMrTo9-q10MxCbBMxXpSIacgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190408_083847.jpg)
Remove tailpipe, discnnect shocks, lower axle... to get the wheel off. Barely. High risk of scrapes. :shock: You gotta want that stance bad, I guess. :roll: Wish I could have done something that helped.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1YHIZzyMDIk/XK0teh1GSNI/AAAAAAAAF8Q/vkJTa7s6DVQ1fPWOgvEpa6OOFr781P9GwCLcBGAs/s1600/20190409_171113.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yQRP5xejlbg/XK0uSeZunWI/AAAAAAAAF80/Fcv8O0IVNiANAwoBLjGvho6dJGk4lQzvACLcBGAs/s1600/20190409_171202.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nJg9UfjbK_4/XMJCUtBdmeI/AAAAAAAAGOU/cgxRyWtycr8nOwZXPIXwNQuL-XjTHxHawCLcBGAs/s1600/20190425_170541.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HwmZZWhCuXM/XL9TcTL4n4I/AAAAAAAAGL8/HdKWBEnv5hMZQtnjYOHa_OrlG_YXNM0-wCLcBGAs/s1600/20190423_124252.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zK2zZ91Fbl0/XLi8qTx-C7I/AAAAAAAAGGo/5JRGlUhSXO4yktBlvGB4dIWGLe1MnWSFwCLcBGAs/s1600/20190418_123122.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CzliTEUCpZ8/XLi8uZ4QIrI/AAAAAAAAGGs/OFHK7V0hKhgTL5vaY7C9HsaHQVAskBavgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190418_123055.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dRINS2vAtfo/XMDhQtz-DqI/AAAAAAAAGMc/CAMr8YuTpNMYHyjuJKHU67t2mjF3vSZWwCLcBGAs/s1600/20190424_114351.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IYobcfjGLvI/XMD67ZQ5txI/AAAAAAAAGMw/XcZNL_PYrPEADGHrwb4as8MJ8xrBfwCpACLcBGAs/s1600/20190424_173234.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ijx_UgzhMUo/XMJCVno2riI/AAAAAAAAGOY/lcz2x1060akQvwfT_ZsvfpjVNxEPFmXWwCLcBGAs/s1600/20190425_170343.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-P8LnbQeusKE/XNHGyNIASOI/AAAAAAAAGWM/CwUWV4dtIn8ERHYeyg9fqAZjnpWS-JCvACLcBGAs/s1600/20190507_124937.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p7Ap4JrKS8A/XNIaR0zvZcI/AAAAAAAAGW4/y_og7MQyIEoWaqmWk3pZxTYb8SarYN7YgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190507_170605.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/--yA8cZTIlQg/XNIaTsV9NjI/AAAAAAAAGW8/AdfYoErqZjI_HCJpTVP_WxLy11c4Fgt0gCLcBGAs/s1600/20190507_170540.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2rS6ZzFWDDo/XNIaV0dCQ3I/AAAAAAAAGXA/yUogmqQEaJwYTABLs83ibbmvF6Mbbr5GQCLcBGAs/s1600/20190507_170511.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Uapn-LsDAi8/XNIaXmFJXJI/AAAAAAAAGXE/tnxyTr0q7l4Pxh-0_Z1qPYsXiJOvlkWPACLcBGAs/s1600/20190507_170452.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/--6X5CjsA1-s/XNIabfQ61II/AAAAAAAAGXI/yo28kCyY3-0WY3ie-P_9Ia-M6E-DhhYEgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190507_170435.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6IyN4AADg7c/XNIad-7yeWI/AAAAAAAAGXM/7uCyyl19koArIduvrhml1b49yYksL69ywCLcBGAs/s1600/20190507_170411.jpg)
This is what I like so much about our painter, he knows how to make show cars look the part. 8)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BATcuwc2bQ8/XO8XLLuGuXI/AAAAAAAAGxc/2LPvFhf8DwkjBfLXymBn26broGwCmubPgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190529_170203.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-u1a4Av8vc_s/XO8XONpmxJI/AAAAAAAAGxg/ncrbizKNkTsSaNF1BD-VD6XcKMv2sUEIQCLcBGAs/s1600/20190529_170259.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-x797t5VbrWA/XO8XSQ7_tDI/AAAAAAAAGxk/LKEYvcMbtjIsxTpYSGacKmHsFgutFdMTwCLcBGAs/s1600/20190529_170215.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HPY_lvY1Oag/XO8XUAbYJOI/AAAAAAAAGxo/Omgbh3DshAotLYteX6Jq-NpQnVA-NHbWACLcBGAs/s1600/20190529_170314.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q3PBOvFgXH4/XP_lDN7x9hI/AAAAAAAAHE8/d5YGTD9c_J09lQGLtprvIptmg08OH3HoACLcBGAs/s1600/20190611_113114.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zI9x5ToQUSs/XP_lFCWFQlI/AAAAAAAAHFA/Tda41ne0TSs8LDjbfDXDCCgK0f9R4QHHACLcBGAs/s1600/20190611_113125.jpg)
Here are some pix I took last week,-
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Dozmw5jLw5Y/XPv4AmrVCqI/AAAAAAAAG9I/IfUp56XRh_4L4rwJSSbeM4en9rXR-9LxgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190607_130848.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XqcdgnENkvI/XPv4Dd9EuMI/AAAAAAAAG9M/gA4UZTmDfQk0CW0tDBXu7gdWsTch-6iUQCLcBGAs/s1600/20190607_130951.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GfEaaqS0VNo/XPv4Hc8MXOI/AAAAAAAAG9Q/CBI8C9vbc10tl5XluGmSHoUeryd1PXXgACLcBGAs/s1600/20190607_131343.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9Kj8x7KaRe0/XPv4KmDSzAI/AAAAAAAAG9U/k9fJxJjdsxIb2uoZo0ZP2mnW9mGBRYuLgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190607_131402.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8S_pbGUZlQE/XPv4KlmB-KI/AAAAAAAAG9Y/qGkwe9UnAREu5Veo8wVU-PsxW5IzfcvsQCLcBGAs/s1600/20190607_131413.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CEmkDMl8Llk/XPv4VyYz9cI/AAAAAAAAG9g/xf6qTxSih_4ZE4gB-1Oohf7Ljace2ub7wCLcBGAs/s1600/20190607_131007.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PKL160Gok_Y/XPv4ZIk3nDI/AAAAAAAAG9k/W71A0z-IKwc5fSKyMXPc3kmnUA04vc4QwCLcBGAs/s1600/20190607_131035.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4efKa1BdFz4/XPv5N2H2cDI/AAAAAAAAG90/pqG_3y6BlzwYZ-XLeT2bxoqUM6HaDZCPACLcBGAs/s1600/20190607_131318.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ihhmUFMSbbk/XPv5Q6gzjcI/AAAAAAAAG94/OVwrA9qNsYsFlmlQA7SGtg6KtutHTAKYQCLcBGAs/s1600/20190607_131128.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IDmzBYua5gU/XQGG-df1DLI/AAAAAAAAHHo/MV8CHEs_0pQMXYbSL52ozM9UKy5VvURigCLcBGAs/s1600/20190612_165833.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Stnz1WWm7lY/XQGHAZsHiUI/AAAAAAAAHHs/8fO2bxq3wAE0FDcx26EYn8AwHFvbSlH0wCLcBGAs/s1600/20190612_165844.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DrPcl-vWrrw/XQKGOIIG-II/AAAAAAAAHJA/tiZJ-vgblBkXb62V53nW8Yoxf_0HBI7dgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190613_083756.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VPx2TTh6iH0/XQKGJ6-wH6I/AAAAAAAAHI8/Q93FmKE-Goc7FV2T0YQJp6r9lV9X3_8VACLcBGAs/s1600/20190613_121347.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K70M9CWgR1s/XQKGIWSUpdI/AAAAAAAAHI4/mpBnBDGjbsQlqoXQLdYEdf1P3QW3G87pwCLcBGAs/s1600/20190613_121243.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MWLThYbYxPs/XQLcxMhSE_I/AAAAAAAAHJ0/RwbKQ1k-pb0JzdaqimCbTYBnAlICvCdxACLcBGAs/s1600/20190613_163740.jpg)
Time for a brief rendezvous with an ex... ~:)
It won't be long now, gentlemen. I have some no-biggie finish up welding to do under the car where the frame blocked access before now. Painter applied 2K seam sealer topside today so he means business. Some poor guy will have to sand underneath first but progress will be unrelenting. Time to scoot this one on out the door. :arrow:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Hz7_M7DFf3w/XQmGU3YAksI/AAAAAAAAHO4/dLi3xr-Yv_gDwe0QQ1_4C70TTauM8PJEACLcBGAs/s1600/20190618_165128.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nbyENhq0-I4/XQvABIp9NfI/AAAAAAAAHRE/YRtCq9S7Z-cNsqFwfeyiUNBrNcyFHIYtgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190620_120421.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8oLV0o32fyQ/XQ0v6CgYUqI/AAAAAAAAHSU/8odjxO9liggoHvT5YflljS3t_u7HvBfAgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190621_123147.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ki_mWXlHHEE/XRENtnM1ytI/AAAAAAAAHS0/YGtIbOtEQaYB3BIMLnwpR3B12lsaxMXXgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190624_123825.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QfAgywH_gds/XRJWbcsdN8I/AAAAAAAAHTw/XPGkNAo-_-4hb0ToQEYuiWYi93w3oycLQCLcBGAs/s1600/20190625_110150.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-leQjdJZMoLY/XRJWaU-0UNI/AAAAAAAAHTo/RxBFyX96JJIRK5VaizjWCLyE7aWibvaPgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190625_110212.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YJWTlZPJNSU/XRJWV5vthJI/AAAAAAAAHTg/khCVOu6fOG04Yp3pNZbNVhzqH7UwWu8jACLcBGAs/s1600/20190625_120157.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jgMDa1hn3G4/XRT76CvNqWI/AAAAAAAAHWU/00mFs0w-HRMeqmS_zg5zIuDa8i__B-2UgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190627_121515.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QhZDmZbR9WQ/XRT719g0xmI/AAAAAAAAHWI/q2FITx-UMpMtQ-3Ak0hrWp7iumVIYHiXwCLcBGAs/s1600/20190627_121457.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-be-zqd98gAE/XRVSlBSCsrI/AAAAAAAAHXA/h5bupUkcQQ87z7nOGQV7pQLOTjKANXIJwCLcBGAs/s1600/20190627_170554.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UkyH3TvBgqM/XRVSjXW7ssI/AAAAAAAAHW8/mQkViXiG9V0z2q-r2zpm3GR7OoQFECJrgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190627_170519.jpg)
Thats a Ford color called Magnetic.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FcDxGjlDrDE/XRpBHZt-lmI/AAAAAAAAHYA/rNYdMAOmvu0q_M8Xa27iKK4QrgImEw9jQCLcBGAs/s1600/20190701_121321.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Xr7hTjRl5cI/XRqTsr-mp3I/AAAAAAAAHZc/88R7KakNYn0kHnfK76o3eo7Z2n0r1vaeACLcBGAs/s1600/20190701_165808.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tFxTD4FYRAA/XRqTq-z-n1I/AAAAAAAAHZY/68YgUmtgd7MF0acjtXXKeNrCu3dQzZfxgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190701_165738.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EEXsSb_86Wg/XRqToYcOeUI/AAAAAAAAHZU/7gZAZi3EHDw74MPSTHz4cTTWYW4vG-4fwCLcBGAs/s1600/20190701_165709.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kBH9Iwmya90/XRqTmWFrlEI/AAAAAAAAHZQ/xpGJ1cZr_DwBYdpp0Hhg8UR6_KkdxRsuQCLcBGAs/s1600/20190701_165643.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OyGlSJZMLGk/XRwE6t-N1rI/AAAAAAAAHak/AZCamMucNyAu227u9XkywrZHM9UIXX_XwCLcBGAs/s1600/20190702_134931.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hcsGoyjOS6I/XRwE_gmrQhI/AAAAAAAAHao/I1KMVugL4XQkALUkIUv2BOj-ZtITJDjdACLcBGAs/s1600/20190702_135515.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZjSZKGTuPzQ/XRwFKpWRahI/AAAAAAAAHaw/zZSnC0rF30MLvin_tdok3R9AHp70ZCfjACLcBGAs/s1600/20190702_135558.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LA9kzV336zs/XRwFMrRLVaI/AAAAAAAAHa0/lFDvkkhu0XMSWH4QmDpGtfMQlfd0te30QCLcBGAs/s1600/20190702_135724.jpg)
Painter hosed seven cans of 3M no-cleanup rocker panel spray under there after epoxy and seam sealer. These are after oh maybe 5 cans. Theres never enough to make it all nice and uniform, he complains. But the bottom of the footwells are really all that might be seen. In any event, he does a fine job and they all look great done this way. The gravel guard stuff gets another coat of epoxy as sealer then paint is applied.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vFQrTPclDfA/XRzsztXOfVI/AAAAAAAAHbU/iCaC3utUXAYG-cKHESnP7be-TsYLmvN9QCLcBGAs/s1600/20190703_125324.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-h_pTwiZVfDA/XRzs5oZIQsI/AAAAAAAAHbY/VXc_BHcj8x0BveYtsYc647GQ_CDcdzoPQCLcBGAs/s1600/20190703_123050.jpg)
After we all left for the holiday weekend, Painter stayed and finished the underside. That was the plan anyway. Lizard skin goes inside, both kinds. Trunk, too. Thats the popular high-end treatment we offer, and a reduced gloss clear over the body color is the usual choice for underneath. I like it a lot, as much as the customers do. It is effective. With the Cat being black however, a single stage satin black may be used rather than a flat clear. That would make sense to me also.
Being all comfy and relaxed looking at these pics... kinda drives home the amount of work I did there. It was a lot! Same thing with the A. Working on it after being off it a couple weeks does the same thing. It seems to go so slowly day by day but having both of these tremendous projects side-by-side, well... I get it. Profoundly. My sense of accomplishment is off the scale but seeing the labor that the rest of the crew heaps onto mine humbles me. I just hope I have done my part well. Pardon my moment of reflection there. I realize how uniquely cool my work situation is.
And I can't wait. We are to the "good part" of the thread now. There will be the most glorious fresh paint pics I can get, real soon. Then will come the roller shots and as time goes by the goodies and panels on shots and I won't be involved. In the end will emerge just a slick black 59 with wheels too big. At a glance. Then will be the time to appreciate the modern technology throughout the build which has nothing to do with bodywork. I think that will be something.
Sounds like you feel you're part of a great team. That's a great place to be.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-a4XO_B0iu4g/XSN6dZIuaLI/AAAAAAAAHb0/PsaAVB6eU7Ahdkko7otvnpYW3BQ-ReABgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190708_083004.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cxeAsavG9aA/XSN6gJpIRzI/AAAAAAAAHb4/5TAAl2tC8MMIu34-gYSUO5CV5t2lVQA-wCLcBGAs/s1600/20190708_083107.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cjNLDLtZinY/XSN6hyDVMXI/AAAAAAAAHb8/StacuEembNgIwxb-0IhPEcxMyY_D5az9wCLcBGAs/s1600/20190708_083318.jpg)
Lizard Skin. We all know whats next. :arrow:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gA6NuQvobNE/XSTQ4fxlbtI/AAAAAAAAHdc/kutglcNyEkEQ_WXnTvd2P251u9Qbo95kwCLcBGAs/s1600/20190709_094249.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lGgXQeDh6CY/XSTQnW9mw_I/AAAAAAAAHdQ/mQGyfkDUVmMWitGzoB1QBr2qL82Og7bGgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190709_094436.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LKxv1VTp9VU/XSTQeH68BuI/AAAAAAAAHdM/5hEjR6xzXXEMnTX_cvdKGTBA3CxbKK4SACLcBGAs/s1600/20190709_094228.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-m1SRRtrWM9s/XSTQaZkzoDI/AAAAAAAAHdI/vXgFKs3Qevs-D8UekvlV-8fMA0op5bZ2gCLcBGAs/s1600/20190709_094142.jpg)
Painter feels like it is close to ready. I have been known to call him Little Father which if you say it right sounds like a little farther. That reflects the lengths he goes to when he walks the QC tightrope before a big shoot. Here are some peeks at detail areas that make all the difference on a show car paint job:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-I5eH8wnqzK8/XSYgiaHyNyI/AAAAAAAAHe0/565O0IVhrNsxSV8ZYWtdi2N3vxIC75XDgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190710_121748.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dkj2qyZkQ-Q/XSYgk9OhVWI/AAAAAAAAHe4/PNN78IXcocYlt2__wrWWCvUawN5X18QWgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190710_121805.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kB6JkRJLCsU/XSYgflnWxaI/AAAAAAAAHew/7KWXY0msbv8RT6jc__2kX2aQBiz5ao3cQCLcBGAs/s1600/20190710_121917.jpg)
Oh, the suspense!
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-P0bmFSN9GYU/XSdvxT0FkNI/AAAAAAAAHf0/Qq7vCXjy4PArpRdYm3qF3qI9uFtlNM__ACLcBGAs/s1600/20190711_103221.jpg)
It is getting color now. :arrow:
excited :D 8)
I guarantee it will never go back. ~:)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nZ_R4j3AIsc/XSfFZzQEfsI/AAAAAAAAHgI/YYK4oQDlsf0AwqOsOqvNq_ziXRoXA9ivgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190711_170033.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TpvlzS1jMa0/XSfFcjxEfaI/AAAAAAAAHgM/d4YMxW8DX9QbsPc0z8TT1MtNrsuugRTowCLcBGAs/s1600/20190711_170049.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4vTauJVGRP0/XSfFexyx9sI/AAAAAAAAHgQ/jdLwf1sIrusceVQcLr-WZE550Vuap_ioACLcBGAs/s1600/20190711_170111.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-I7oa-_tUvEk/XSfFgjgEjOI/AAAAAAAAHgU/dsxmSBfLkbkDCqWTxMh7iCGBdB3b6Kq6gCLcBGAs/s1600/20190711_170117.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-l1BZRvlAMbg/XSfFnNqqCLI/AAAAAAAAHgY/m3oQLZjsvI0mxg9TfcmdKhR1QvTABlY1ACLcBGAs/s1600/20190711_170214.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qMkTW20D5-4/XSfFq2hGB0I/AAAAAAAAHgg/QKULOSlUXYUUw42JYBvBL4cCDZFgyj85QCLcBGAs/s1600/20190711_170236.jpg)
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The booth was pretty much S.R.O. at quittin' time. Paint job papparazzi had it thoroughly engulfed. );b(
Congrats to all who worked on the big cat!
8) 8) 8)
On behalf of the crew, thanks and 8) back.
For the record, waterborne PPG basecoat was used. Its the strong black toner, straight.
awesome 8)
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Did I read earlier that the exhaust is solid mounted? I assume you can do that with the flex connectors to the headers?
Tom
Quote from: "39deluxe"Did I read earlier that the exhaust is solid mounted? I assume you can do that with the flex connectors to the headers?
Tom
Could be.
I was just the rust guy but my understanding (assumption) is that between the cylinder head and the flange at the frame pass-through behind the rear wheels, there is no support. Not unlike cars with no hangers before the axle, but in a much more confined space. I can certainly look at and / or ask about it if you are considering a similar challenge. Today I stuck my head down there to see how much crank pulley to steering rack clearance is present. It isn't much but I'd bet one of the polyurethane blocks on the engine mounts would have to completely crumble and fall away before any interference could occur. And that is with very minimal air cleaner to hood clearance also. It is possible that our man plans to have an exhaust mount where the H pipe is. The crossover seen at the back of the transmission is a placeholder for a piece yet to be designed. Reluctantly, I might add. Mike would rather not have an H pipe in this case. Thats the impression I got when I asked about that part. I will try to show whatever he ends up with.
I think I would be ceramic coating the exhaust to bring the outside pipe temperatures down if it was mine. Maybe that's the plan, huh?
Quote from: "rumrumm"I think I would be ceramic coating the exhaust to bring the outside pipe temperatures down if it was mine. Maybe that's the plan, huh?
Don't know. Probably.
The exhaust is to be ceramic coated.
One of the front exhaust-to- frame attachment points-
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Buffing-
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(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-O7Y-TfQJyIc/XUB9E2SN62I/AAAAAAAAHyE/FZQw_fvQpZQhztKXNuDk8jY4DIgIls2PACLcBGAs/s1600/20190730_085646.jpg)
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Mike installed the 4x4 lift kit today. :wink:
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He is just sizing things up, readying for the approach... y'know. :arrow:
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I believe a man may have to take a knee to glimpse a lugnut back here, all said and done. :shock:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-soW8z3Oh6Wc/XUN4YH5ORjI/AAAAAAAAH3A/L5jkPKWse-8_-6SCgkkS7kCh-vBGoVOCgCLcBGAs/s1600/20190801_170529.jpg)
I also believe that is going to be one striking automobile. My goodness! :-o
i believe striking may be an understatement . 8) 8) 8)
Just don't strike your head looking underneath.
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Top picture on this page shows diff black ,last pic shows it bare and cleared or chrome . i really like it the way it is now , shows some contrast . is it chrome or bare metal with clear ?
Quote from: "chimp koose"Top picture on this page shows diff black ,last pic shows it bare and cleared or chrome . i really like it the way it is now , shows some contrast . is it chrome or bare metal with clear ?
The axle housing and everything suspension, and the frame... are just one dark grey metallic color. Base / clear, nothing special. Its just the reflections. Hazy day outside. 8)
It could limbo 52". Here are some exhaust pics.
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Mike is on vacation. :shock: :roll:
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Its all painted now. :shock: Black interior pieces are in the booth.
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(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-E4ygy5EnmCk/XaZS7huksHI/AAAAAAAAI8I/2e6oTOaTGG0El-owmZsSl0vLjuUBkRuiQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/20191015_164702.jpg)
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(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mdrOu1imQ_I/XaZTEHVxyHI/AAAAAAAAI8Q/QB9nRAzw45AILcJ0ibjYbO_vW-ZJ1W3DQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/20191015_170721.jpg)
Its almost getting to where if you squint, and get just a glimpse of it, outta the corner of your eye, at a glance... you can have a vision. And wowee, when I do :!: Not responsible for anything that happens if your bifocals are on upside down. :lol:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RpUmM1c7NwY/Xae1N3-Mu6I/AAAAAAAAI9g/EzHEloToU3E4P74TiR-5yUdA9c4uTR1LwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/20191016_160221.jpg)
As added wow to break the monotony, enjoy this years-ago and went-home-on-roto shop project that I didn't work on. The li'l cutie is back for her post-assembly buff n' stuf. :wink:
"Lookers is meant to get looked at." - Festus
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(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-C213lozr7p8/Xae1vpyVa8I/AAAAAAAAI94/a3mYN-sELAUjQCPcH0B_BsaBT0iorInugCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/20191016_132313.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sutTx5dd09A/Xae12V6MgHI/AAAAAAAAI-A/g2x4--gwGJsliDclL7lI3GTGvyxPkPbTgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/20191016_132230.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WXOHdCrQuuI/Xae2GMsYpwI/AAAAAAAAI-U/NMybThU5_f8b2j2qq0-xO3XB-NaWnJACACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/20191016_132656.jpg)
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That is just a slick ride and I would love to try it on. :0-0
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-I_htitDKirY/XbsYa25kWUI/AAAAAAAAJNY/jKbZkaDM6WQzMRAtXDO9-tNNlAl0gxPtgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/20191031_112939.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iqYwtZThyN4/XbsYdM3spxI/AAAAAAAAJNc/b6flKLeKIsgpCwW-h5k8tR_ukOsmIu8hQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/20191031_113100.jpg)
I heard he hung a fender today after those pix. :arrow:
I don't think I've seen an AMX that nice before. :)
Quote from: "kb426"I don't think I've seen an AMX that nice before. :)
It sure has a strong "cream puff" vibe, don't it? Thats what drew me in. Its unusual yet minty as a toothpick. I think this old feline barge will have some of that appeal plus the pricey, showy kind of eye punch. 8)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-t4QsNMFOkKQ/Xbx_LVCYR-I/AAAAAAAAJOo/uk5vl_6r7UEcCfx2F1S0dp4UUMFPcMDuwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/20191101_124049.jpg)
There's no way I could assemble that car with out something getting scratched. In high end work, the assembly is what I'm most impressed with. Years ago in the body shop when I was in high school, 2 guys would try to install bumpers without error. Seldom happened. Must be magnetism in new paint. :)
The assembly IS what deserves ALL the recognition. But if you think scratches don't happen, you're dreaming. :wink: I used to get involved and was considered good about scratches. That was before I was fab guy. Last put together I did was Gary's Camino. Two scratches, one paint one trim. The red 33, I was told to oversee mounting of the body. The same guy who never waits to lift his corner tipped it off one lift arm and a horrible huge gouge went right up the cowl side. :shock:
Hopefully those couple stories will quench the collective thirst for idiot moves to focus on. If you never scratch fresh paint, you must not work on cars!
Years ago I was involved in a high end build. This was down to the end, and one of the guys was drilling a trim hole. The drill skated across the front fender putting a gouge clear to the metal in a four step candy paint job. It was fixed, but it wasn't easy.
I was devastated when the 33 got it. Had to just get it sat down and walk away. Boss man took it like a champ and personally fixed it in the blink of an eye. Said it took all of us to do the damage so no individual shouldered the blame. We didn't get any pizza lunch for quite awhile after, though. It WAS a very sketchy maneuver due to the tiny area available to lift by. But that one guy always lifts with a * to this day, before anybody else is ready, and way too high on his corner. Now I know.
First car I did there, 67 Imp SS, and the 70 Mach1... were unblemished and I "built" those two. I had been in collision repair a decade and was actually known around town as the guy who can not mess stuff up. There was a gasp once as I lost grip on a lightweight tool which tumbled down the raised Mach hood and onto the fender. Didn't leave a mark or dent, whew!
Now, I really can't trust my bum hand to not drop things. A seasoned painter knows to expect this kind of thing, a boss watches for patterns, tendencies. Sincerity of excuse is considered, along with attentiveness and preventative measures, but a consistent stuff scratcher won't build for long. I think Mike found a way to beat the odds by buying stock in yellow 3M tape. Doesn't matter how overkill you go about protecting fresh paint, the effort is all practical. But for what its worth, I use a minimum of tape and maximum caution, aided by gobs upon gobs of experience hanging parts. That does scare some folks but when I have to, I still do alright.
Thats the nice thing about my rustoleum paint jobs , easy fix fir scratches , just roll on another coat ! :lol: :lol: Seriously , the re assembly must be the most stressful thing on a build . Must be why I never finish anything :oops:
Looky there, I double dipped that post like an ice cream cone (make mine swirl flavor please) :shock:
Forum was running like a sloth in a peat bog for me right then. :lol: I done good to just not lose the heartfelt and genuine, non-rant batch of text. :lol:
Here are the buffed dash and lizard skinned bobbed wheelwells. Say it in your Grover from Sesame Street voice...
Smooth.
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Rough.
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This subject aught to be shown to the guy that wants frank to lower his car more. Of coarse It didn't have much of a floor when you started but your work shows how much thought is needed to accomplish that goal. GPster
Quote from: "GPster"This subject aught to be shown to the guy that wants frank to lower his car more. Of coarse It didn't have much of a floor when you started but your work shows how much thought is needed to accomplish that goal. GPster
I built a half inch body drop into my floor structure, thats it. Room for big tires is the harder part.
I am told it will scorch grass but nobody can get an idea how practical the ride height is until the car is on the road. As it stands the roof is around four feet and four inches high and rockers should be around six inches from the road. Which will probably drag somewhere if the driver doesn't slow down when they see the dark spot ahead, down the center of their lane. :wink:
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High beam / park / turn-
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Mike tells me there was fire in the hole today, with a bottle splash of gas in the TB. It made its first baby talk! Tank should be on it's way now.
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Its like that hunka Ponch is just floating over an abyss. 8)
Them A/C lines and engine bay panels are to die fer.
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Goodies!!
Yeah! 8) I didn't know it was getting cutouts. :shock:
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sealer or interior color?
Epoxy.
No bumpers still, but theres a push to get it to the interior shop.
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The wiring looks like some of my days. :)
That picture from drivers rear makes me smile 8) 8) 8) 8)
Quote from: "kb426"The wiring looks like some of my days. :)
It takes a big man to make his way around a plate of spaghetti that size. I have the utmost respect and admiration for them that can hit all the automotive bases.
I know it's a long way from done yet, but it's really starting to look like a car now.
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Just a bumpity post to maintain interest... there is progress every day. Will the bumpers arrive before it goes to the interior do-er? What of her first words and steps? Don't touch that dial :!: :?: :?: :?: :? :arrow:
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Looks like a retro missile, straight outta hell :twisted:
I would imagine the owner is drooling about now. Unless he's unaware of the stage it's at, I would expect him to be properly excited.
No idea, we never see him. :? Met him once and we made tri power noises for one another. But you don't fund a build like that without being a busy individual. :wink:
Better yet, imagine the day it creeps forth from the mechanic shop. We hear it, then we see it. In motion, alive. It parks and kills. The smirks we share and can't shake until we are all back in our stalls working... apart, together, on another. Thats a team high. Makes us all want to keep on. :)
Back in '59 my high school pal's brother bought a triple black '59 Bonneville convertible. It was a gorgeous car that he got to borrow once in awhile. Back seat was huge and comfy.
Another over the top restoration at your place of work!
Quote from: "Charlie Chops 1940"Back in '59 my high school pal's brother bought a triple black '59 Bonneville convertible. It was a gorgeous car that he got to borrow once in awhile. Back seat was huge and comfy.
Another over the top restoration at your place of work!
Thanks on behalf of the crew and myself. 8) They had to be absolutely stunning brand new, particularly the one you describe. And silky smooth. And expensive! (But probably less than a decked out Impala)
I noticed that even in the GM literature for hardtops, rear seat passengers' heads are beneath the rear window. I will be interested to see where that ends up with the floor modifications. I hear tell that this car has rear A/C as well. Don't know if that means two evap cores or what. :? But heck yeah, and again thank you much. :)
Saw these grille area pieces today, painted. The grey on the grille shell matches the frame.
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They chose shiny black for the bezels-
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Shakedown :!:
Are we having fun now? :)
Thats gotta feel good seeing it running and driving. Maybe one day ill get one to that point :oops:
Someone is having fun or will be soon. All I did was stick a floor in there. :)
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that is awesome matt 8)
Amazing car.
Thanks, on behalf of the crew. Its a tall drink of water, yep. I gave it a little boost in the assembly department via digital treachery-
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I am almost ready to suggest making sheetmetal bumpers with tube reinforcements. So somebody could plate fresh made top halves. :idea:
Beautiful. As I was looking at it, I was thinking the front section from a '59 Chevy bumper might follow the lines of the hood since it peaks in the center. But that's just me. It's very nice as is.
No offence Matt but that plain bumper needs something in the center and a little more volume to match the car. What does the original one look like? Or a post number that it is on.
Quote from: "416Ford"No offence Matt but that plain bumper needs something in the center and a little more volume to match the car. What does the original one look like? Or a post number that it is on.
the original bar is on page one a few picks down
Woops, missed those replies, thanks guys.
The one on this page with bumpers is edited, I put an approximation of bumpers on it with my PC. Lower section of the bumpers are to be shiny painted but whether black or grey is up in the air. HL bezels looked best shiny black so thats the plan for those. Mike originally wanted to invert the front bumper. I told boss I can make an easily plated sheetmetal bumper or even make a metal top half face bar and fiberglass or metal valance off of them, along with rebars. If it came to that. Plater is really pulling their hair out over a persistent front bumper scratch, its been chromed like 3 times and they are beyond upside down on it but the plater has made it a matter of personal challenge and vows to produce this one and never tackle another. So who knows what'll boil to the top.
I know the grille mesh used looks pretty nice. 67 GTO-ish. :)
Peace! 8) Or is it arrowhead? Hmm.
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I must be getting old. Failed to utter engine sounds. Its a lot of work being this cool. :lol:
Got one bumper-
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real purty! 8)
I'd love to see this thing up close, but now I'm half a continent away so not too likely to run into it. I've enjoyed watching all of it and it's a beautiful ride.
Thanks, guys. 8)
I heard yesterday that it moved from the storage building into the mechanic shop. Don't know any story.
Owner specifically requested an engine cover. Here is a sketch of the idea-
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8) 8) 8)
Mike has been making up some interior pieces. I hear tell that the upholsterer will be ready for it this month some time, and that the bumper is promised next month. It seems as though theres a push to get it to SEMA this year. Nothing went last year but we had been in the habit of taking two before that..
SEMA was cancelled, Matt.
Quote from: "kb426"SEMA was cancelled, Matt.
Scratch that then. :oops:
I'd be happiest if it just went to another four letter place... home!
Three years deep in vehicle construction I am, with nothing on the road yet. You built three or four in that time.
Interesting look to that engine cover, very sleek. It's almost like a hood under the hood.
That is the idea. I am not aware of any styling choice options given by us that have been accepted so I have little reason to belive that idea will make it onto the car. I did spit out an image that the boss thought was cool. Taking the original tri-power emblems and modifying to read EFI power. :shock:
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I think just one of those, at the front of the "inner hood" might be cute.
Here is an unrelated bonus image. The hovercraft I drove in college. :lol:
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:roll:
Quote from: "idrivejunk"Here is an unrelated bonus image. The hovercraft I drove in college. :lol:
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:roll:
Cool hovercraft. did George Lucas see you drive that thing before he made Star Wars? :)
I like it when builders make emblems which look like the originals but reflect the updated parts under the skin.
custom badges are 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Catalina is at the interior place. Any action on color speculation? :?:
red or grey 8) 8)
If his wife picked the color blue. Otherwise gold & creamy white.
Nope. Nope.
You're cold as ice. :T)
black
GREEN METALFLAKE vinyl :lol: 8)
Red or black.
Now you guys got it. No, not bicycle seat flake green!
Dipped in pure sin. 8)
Silver......maybe and if in the stock pattern it will be a tri-color as in silver, black and cream; my guess!
Frank
Black.
Wasn't black and white a common combo on Pontiacs in the early 60's?
My ex 68 and 72 Chevelles both had white seats, door panels, and headliners with black carpet and dash. Stock patterns are not likely to be used here, it is getting what some of the world calls a full custom interior. Stockish dash and the rest is up to Oz but Mike built a console and back dash speaker / rear air thingy and I don't know what all else.
Quote from: "kb426"Wasn't black and white a common combo on Pontiacs in the early 60's?
Not a Pontiac, but my '68 Cougar had an odd combination of black dash, carpet, package tray, and kick panels with white seats, console, door panels, rear trim panels, and headliner. After the front driver seat hinge broke as they often did on those cars I put in a pair of high back buckets out of a Nova. They were black, and I painted everything else but the headliner black as well. Though upholstery paint had a really bad reputation at the time I scrubbed everything really clean and got good adhesion. None of it flaked off, though I did scuff it in when I shoved the back seat full of cardboard boxes.
Last post was in August and its May now so we may never see an interior. Calling off the search and notifying next of kin of MIA... gives a guy a hint at what big factory workers must have felt watching MovieTone newsreels in the early-mid 40s when the global objective was to put as many tons of the other guy's best on the ocean floor as possible because...
No idea what happened to this car. A straight answer about it may be too much to ask for. Only other job I know of that disappeared was the green 69 Camaro body shell I skinned. Bygones, I reckon! :?
Paint jail and interior prison both exist. Thanks for the update.
Omigosh! :shock: I forgot about POWs! Theres hope :D
Lets endeavor to accomplish a covert mission to liberate her. :idea:
Shes a looker, I for one would like to look at her some more. ~:)
I heard it will be back this week. :shock: 8) However, the help is spread real thin right now. Theres a great deal of stress about. But the prospect of any of my work from the last few years being competed is a pleasant thought. :)
Looking forward to pics. :)
Look no farther. 8)
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Thats by Oz. Outta Kansas. :)
stunning !!!!! 8)
I'd like to sit in the front seats. The shape looks like something I could spend 14 hours in and still be smiling. That's been quite a project for us to follow along. Pontiacs aren't as easy as some of the others. Plus, that's a big car. Lots of sheet metal to work with. I'd have to have a map to get from one end to the other. :)
Stunning! And to remember what it looked like when it came in. What an amazing transformation!
This here object is the makings of a stunning engine cover- :shock:
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What is the green material on the foam base?
Unsure. Looks a bit runny for bondo. I suspect it is a mold-to-be or maybe just a buck to fine tune clearance with. :?
It is supposed to be a single-use mold. I offered what guidance I could to the guy tasked with it. Our best guess is the first layer was a mud and resin cocktail. The guy who roughed it in doesn't really acknowledge questions. :)
progress-
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9_sc5Wfz1Gs/YNYqX88wPBI/AAAAAAAAPRs/yq6SgxkIoIEOXEOE6WTCTECj5T6xalDkwCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210625_124139.jpg)
I'd have tried out the seat but was covered in a mysterious white powder. ;)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FkAR85J7uZY/YN8R_JiHKrI/AAAAAAAAPUA/yZgImK4S0wo-uPzr6GH9Q1tgaGBDwUVXQCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210701_163003.jpg)
This fine old Pontiac, like mine, flies in the face of all who believe nothing screams lame-suck like a column shift. :)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Hzwvzz_AK4Q/YN8R_OSl-0I/AAAAAAAAPT4/-yeedV59QsEcVOgk3toAtMS8ZgHEZ-q-gCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210701_163031.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jWl9j99PBGI/YN8R_HM1VjI/AAAAAAAAPT8/2QTwAo3zt2Ih1sK8HM9vd2dtt2Qwg4w2gCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210701_163107.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-c0XO33QW418/YN8SCQVrfNI/AAAAAAAAPUE/E4fc-ddGtI4h_dxbcEZY4_OwxZTvVJ0AgCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210701_163121.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-whbOJevv6b4/YN8SCt_Bq6I/AAAAAAAAPUI/83Ph8LVZb7Ez3b-fYz6A0hi2SoDXRntNACLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210701_163158.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uH4C4aUIs7U/YN8SDFvsAjI/AAAAAAAAPUM/D6i21UsPB8glv44pp9yYBSqxMdGoVyo2ACLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210701_163324.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6OKLeV5BhlQ/YN8SG8N-wUI/AAAAAAAAPUc/gvr19r2g5UwyiSt72PI25U5huFsoCxLkACLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210701_163553.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-E0eZ3KPsSVE/YN8SFgDI6QI/AAAAAAAAPUY/ufQCCQ4zU-Q_4XXKrlpFbBBgXoxe68OSgCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210701_163530.jpg)
Thread fluff from the back shop below, a new insurance replacement Camaro (Dynacorn body) and a low gloss square Bronco-
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--NIUs7m_bmY/YN8SFcxABGI/AAAAAAAAPUQ/1Z2lbzIJsncJ_OrjCC5udl9Zvbc59vBCgCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210701_163354.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MEmcdFu0tAg/YN8SFn9YyII/AAAAAAAAPUU/V7EhkgkZBpIku4ff2jdIbaM9FbReRLr6ACLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210701_163406.jpg)
Is the bronco supposed to be flat white?
yep
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CrKXfUYEt9w/YPcFcNmPQuI/AAAAAAAAPd8/e10S-rrWk4wUg5bqCqL809ztFCayEVbfACLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210720_120957.jpg)
Makes more sense with some accent color present.
How about some Cat news? :-o
I see both bumpers on the car and headlight bezels in the paint shop.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--qflJ0L-fIA/YPcFah9nytI/AAAAAAAAPd0/Y02VDFWysBAfAixEsb1nWigh5lRKeoQqQCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210720_120856.jpg)
Thats lookin right smart, all gleamy chromey now and getting "bump" in the trunk.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GaaWl_Ef4q0/YPcFa9KDrcI/AAAAAAAAPd4/mRzpXfKWscYflqVqdskXvnxrQzbRybYAACLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210720_120928.jpg)
I see real progress there. :D 8)
This was a great build to follow. It didn't look that bad until you started digging. :) High end builds are a PITA but it sure is nice to see the finished project. Do you have any idea if the cat will be a driver or a queen?
I'd be lying if I said I did. My observations could be misleading but...
They are queens the first couple years while owners get their show fix with a near flawless ride. Light usage, lots of wiping. Until theres a front end chip or foot scuff on a kick panel or a tire gets hurt, stuff like that. Then they are sold while theres still a money pile to be had or, less frequently, they are kept for a bit longer and start driving to favorite shows. Then sold. Six figure rides don't get kept, as far as I can tell. Hopefully buyers of ex queens are driving the snot out of them but its more likely they live the lives of baseball trading cards if you ask me.
This one I think is a driver, still with the guy who had us paint it. Don't know that its six figures though. It is SO beautiful and sounds SO good. 8)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-njXVjM-n7oU/YPdfjXVW4SI/AAAAAAAAPe4/QFhjU2daLhYy7oHjhvN6bugypRw12tyawCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210720_154906.jpg)
:lol: Spoke too soon, that one just left in an enclosed trailer. Shows how much I don't know. :roll:
Something I do know... IF this one ever gets an interior there will be some challenges in that. It will leave on a trailer too, but its a great looking black Pontiac job that I did touch and has first chrome hung on it so I figure this to be a spot to drop a pic of it, too.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kDKYpSd-pw0/YPlnxrpqV3I/AAAAAAAAPfw/BxFdMDFOh-IScSSpNgGWmRqe0MVJlpxMQCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210721_170125.jpg)
Black Pontiacs are just cool 8) enough that I have two. They were born a little bit too late though. :oops:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JtoJJMBTBKs/YRQIR5FhjjI/AAAAAAAAPnM/Ii_gfMl9GFgFml88zRktEe1_VYFssp7mACLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210811_121856.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WAQ1R-Ft2OI/YR2c6Jz-x7I/AAAAAAAAPrY/NAzHj1FOCkMAhMl2y7y-FwAAM6Ko08AQQCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210818_141519.jpg)
Well, they popped a part off that mold :-o
I heard the big Cat roar today. EFI's pressure sending unit is telling the system theres 90 PSI and shutting off the pump. Sender seems faulty to Mike. Maybe because it sat so long? He had a workaround making it talk a little. Alls I know is my 99 black Pontiac doesn't know its fuel pressure. You have to check that at the rail with rag and pocket screwdriver and all you get is yes or no. Wet too, if yes. So this must be whizbang stuff. Not as whiz-bang as three deuces. Trips. Tri-Power. Yeah. Like it came with. :wink:
Whiz. Bang.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XSLRdFt4IOg/YS0YIs7CffI/AAAAAAAAPvg/oE3gNydahSwlE1sFwNxFdZqD_kPXnJbvQCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210830_121821.jpg)
Is that the bottom of what will be the air cleaner - engine cover assembly?
Yessir. Almost just like the drawing. :)
I squatted in that same spot today and if either this shiny black headlight bezel or grille mesh had been a snake, they'd have done bit me. So I shot them-
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Bu-0V6is71w/YS666sVZg8I/AAAAAAAAPxM/PXBcvxJqdPwkCeV4pJ65SVYXZ1MYDD2dQCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210831_163157.jpg)
8)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-V6Lq4j5kq7A/YS-5hltf4TI/AAAAAAAAPxw/stIIVxmHMQMCymy0bcluZaKEWEbg6o7HQCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210901_101015.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g4h9PSUOZfo/YS-5eFfA9fI/AAAAAAAAPxs/2V4sADCk89wYZtsBuyvECHpLi0Klc_6ngCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210901_100809.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3ADRRVNac10/YS-5iTQBlOI/AAAAAAAAPx4/wy4pGE3abAkhGW56hb1kBuChsRdfYkvCQCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/20210901_101111.jpg)
My brother came by yesterday. Went to show him the Cat but it wasn't there. I was told it got hauled to Ft. Smith for tuning. On a dyno I presume.
The engine cover task was halted, it was costing too much. Wish I'd have got asked to make it.
End of thread. Photos from shop no longer allowed. Thats that. :blank:
Quote from: idrivejunk on October 20, 2021, 07:33:52 AM
End of thread. Photos from shop no longer allowed. Thats that. :blank:
That's very disappointing.
We will just have to rely on the hobby builders here to provide a replacement twice-daily stream of their current project pics and info to compensate for the loss of content for our beloved forum.
Quote from: idrivejunk on October 22, 2021, 08:40:15 AM
We will just have to rely on the hobby builders here to provide a replacement twice-daily stream of their current project pics and info to compensate for the loss of content for our beloved forum.
Sounds ridiculous, don't it? Did to me, too.
The fact is I could probably post "money shots" only. But that would be disapponting to me, and I am no judge of what is or isn't money.
Far as I know, this car is still out for tuning.
Got it back. Painter was addressing blemishes last week with a stick or two of trim off it. Must be getting close. I just work there. :)
"Tuning" did not go as expected, theres no dyno sheet but the fuel pump seems to work. So I heard.
I know it's not your call but I'd think additional exposure for these sorts of cars would be a good thing. Especially with nearly all the magazines gone.
Oh... its all drama until done, then its like the drama never was. One thing I have noticed is the print mags that are left are super nice quality. I mean the production of the magazine. Kind of like how in the final years, all Rivieras got superchargers not just some. I would wager that the Cat will one day be featured somewhere. If the Lord is willin and the creek don't rise.
That's a magazine-worthy build for certain.
That car is definitely magazine worthy . 8)
At the moment I'd rather they left my name out of it. Feeling disgusted and ashamed to be a part of this crew right now. :(
The drama this week was record-breaking. I got yelled at and car got messed with. Those are both "stepping over the line" by me so it was a mental dodgeball match from stem to stern. Pulled through it with enough holiday spirit to mind-bleach with a Cat shot regardless of consequences.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEj0cyFVbb-9KbB4QwlAHz0RSOlLji3Xho2kSS0kkhpprD_4tMur63FQVrZ6s2uTH1hiDOCWl04W7U2c6j4vezpJeJHORS_Eu_m3Fq7XgpaUf5RdJzgZwOWvaFS-U4ciUGDxmQDVIkQOi_oHxK2qLyk6NslJD-Vp84kB04Ttp__SZwY9nKvICywlaxa9=s2560)
Sure is fine 8)
All those different curves and contours coming together, playing off each other in a multitude of ways. I don't know which is more impressive, that it's all so perfected or that they even attempted it in 1959.
Definitely art right there ! 8)
Yes I, for one, would find being a time traveling fly on the wall during the design of that area in the pic... highly intriguing. :)
Noticed the hood ornament today and thought now thats sexy. Shiny black bezel, iridescent ( reflective ? ) shimmery stock looking pearl colored center. Big long swoopy arrowhead sliding off the front, all stock. Made her look kinda finished. :)
.
^^^^
Looks good.
Well, it sure is shiny.
Love this car, I have since you first started telling us about it.
This car is soooooo nice !
.
Whoo Hoo!
no words , just 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Unique and beautiful. That's a great car.
Some amazing work went into that car. The results speak for themselves.
.
I love it when a plan comes together. :)
8) 8) 8) I am usually not a fan of big wheels but this car makes me a believer . WOW what a nice finished product!