The Rodding Roundtable

Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: chimp koose on January 28, 2015, 07:46:04 PM

Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on January 28, 2015, 07:46:04 PM
Hey all, I thought I would ask here before going to pester the parts guy. He is going to ask for an application and when I say 77 -88 GM metric caliper  he is still going to ask for an application and I am not sure what that application is. I am thinking it is a Malibu or similar body style car that I need front calipers for. The speedway caliper brackets I have are for GM metric calipers but they don't give a model or a year so I am not going to be able to get a parts guy around here to dig up a set on their computer screen .Can someone help me out ? Thanks in advance .
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: enjenjo on January 28, 2015, 07:55:21 PM
1981 Malibu would be a good start.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on January 28, 2015, 08:34:17 PM
Thanks . I will take a bracket with me when I go see the parts guy.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: BFS57 on January 29, 2015, 06:15:11 AM
Hello;
If it is the Chevrolet metric caliper, I'm thinking that CPP has an updated version of it that they make for this (Classic Performance Products)
It's beefier but fits the application.

Bruce
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: timkins on January 29, 2015, 12:16:39 PM
Speedway also has a metric caliper with an oversized piston. The normal piston has a diameter of about 2.49 and the oversize is about 2.70 and size does make a difference.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: BFS57 on January 29, 2015, 06:27:29 PM
Quote from: "timkins"Speedway also has a metric caliper with an oversized piston. The normal piston has a diameter of about 2.49 and the oversize is about 2.70 and size does make a difference.

Where do you think Speedway gets theirs?  (CPP)

Bruce
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on January 29, 2015, 08:09:57 PM
when I consider the application , 2200 -2500 lb car withdriver , and front end weight with the engine set back of a T , (maybe 1200 lb ?), I really wonder if a 6"tire is going to need any more piston than stock? I will be buying parts locally for the next while for sure as our CDN dollar is only about  $.72 US right now. I kind of prefer using OEM style parts on a build so the parts are easily sourced from anyones inventory as well . I saw all those big bore calipers in the speedway catalogue and wondered if it would really be needed . I am all for optimizing any system but I would prefer to do it without speed shop stuff.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: Rochie on January 30, 2015, 09:09:52 AM
Chimp,
I used callipers  from a 74/76 GM with Speedway brackets on my 2200 lb. 29 roadster and it pulls down straight and hard. I don't see the need for anything more than stock
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: jaybee on February 01, 2015, 12:37:11 PM
Good thinking, Chimp. Bigs and littles put far different needs on the brake system than stock/same-size tires at both ends.

If anyone is interested I've been playing with a very detailed braking calculator that's downloadable and operates as a spreadsheet. You can find it here; http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14424

Using the spreadsheet you can plug in different brake components to get the system as close as possible to "ideal". There's even a place for proportioning valve and balance bar (for installations with twin master cylinders) adjustments.

Two limitations to the spreadsheet...it's only set up for 4 wheel disk brakes, and there's no provision for a brake booster. I haven't been able to find a rule of thumb for how much pedal effort is reduced by a brake booster, but for our purposes It'd probably do to say "pedal effort is too high...add a booster."

Would the spreadsheet be appropriate for the tech archive?
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on February 01, 2015, 07:17:14 PM
Thanks guys , I got 85 Camaro calipers today w/pads and 97 aerostar AWD front rotors . Looks like I have all the parts I will need for a while. Just used the pin hone at work to fit my kingpins to the axle and spindles.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: kb426 on February 03, 2015, 06:45:06 PM
Jaybee, thanks for the link. That led me to another site so I can build my own Lotus 7. I really need another toy! :)
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: jaybee on February 03, 2015, 07:44:06 PM
That's the trouble I always have with chasing car questions I have online...I always end up going "that'd be cool!"
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on February 04, 2015, 01:49:56 AM
For anyone wondering about the brackets I got from speedway motors ,they are part # 91641009 @ $9.99 each. The calipers I got were from an 85 Camaro w /5.5" bolt spacing. The rotors are 90 -97 aerostar  awd .I just got my spindles to fit the axle tonight, had to machine up a cutter to face off material to get the econoline spindles to fit the 39-48 ford application axle .Now I will be modifying the caliper brackets for use on my spindles .I will keep you posted on how it is going.I will likely have to machine a bit off the OD of the econoline hubs to fit the new rotors .
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: taxpyer on February 05, 2015, 01:00:06 AM
Quote from: "chimp koose"For anyone wondering about the brackets I got from speedway motors ,they are part # 91641009 @ $9.99 each. The calipers I got were from an 85 Camaro w /5.5" bolt spacing. The rotors are 90 -97 aerostar  awd .I just got my spindles to fit the axle tonight, had to machine up a cutter to face off material to get the econoline spindles to fit the 39-48 ford application axle .Now I will be modifying the caliper brackets for use on my spindles .I will keep you posted on how it is going.I will likely have to machine a bit off the OD of the econoline hubs to fit the new rotors .

Thanks for the info Chimp, I'm still undecided on whether to go for the disc or stay with the drums as I want to retain the 4.5" bolt pattern.  Aside from looks I really can't see much benefit when the drums are so beefy.................... Thanks again. :wink:
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on February 05, 2015, 01:15:29 AM
Taxpyr  the aerostar rotors fit your econoline hubs. They may require a little clearancing on the hub OD to fit inside the rotor but that could even be an angle grinder job.They are the same bolt pattern. If you would like,  let me get mine working and I could copy the caliper bracket for you. Then the job would be a bolt on for you.I have $211 into calipers pads and rotors so far. ($50 core charge to get back yet).The speedway parts cost about $50 with shipping and exchange so all in it will cost about $250 with new bearings and seals.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: taxpyer on February 06, 2015, 01:08:45 AM
Quote from: "chimp koose"Taxpyr  the aerostar rotors fit your econoline hubs. They may require a little clearancing on the hub OD to fit inside the rotor but that could even be an angle grinder job.They are the same bolt pattern. If you would like,  let me get mine working and I could copy the caliper bracket for you. Then the job would be a bolt on for you.I have $211 into calipers pads and rotors so far. ($50 core charge to get back yet).The speedway parts cost about $50 with shipping and exchange so all in it will cost about $250 with new bearings and seals.

Thanks Chimp, I'll watch for updates. You've helped me get going,,, thanks for that.
Started my engine last week for first time,,,,,,, starting other mock ups as well.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on February 07, 2015, 06:06:11 PM
Update ,knocked the drums off the hubs and machined them down to fit the aerostar rotor .Requires about .200" to be removed .  Glad I didn't use an angle grinder like was suggested on the site I found this swap info on. 5.812 " od on the hubs fits the rotors fine.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on February 12, 2015, 01:26:04 AM
Machined up some .500" spacers for the caliper brackets. Mock up shows them to leave about .050" clearance from rotor to outside pad with new pads and caliper fully seated to bracket . that should make them easy to assemble with a decent centering of the caliper. I will have to run this setup with the calipers to the front as they will not clear the steering arms when I try to run them to the back. I was hoping to run them in the back to clean up the look of the front as the T fender really exposes the front half of the wheel and I wanted to make some kind of fancy rotor cover scoop thingy to bling it up a bit. Oh well , at least I think I can route the brake lines so as not to have them flopping around out in the front of the car.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on February 12, 2015, 01:40:05 AM
Forgot to mention , the spacers I made were 1" od and drilled and tapped for 7/16 NF so they will fit snugly into the 1" counterbore on the back of the spindle and be torqued on to the spindle with thread exposed for caliper mounting . The info I saw had the spacers drilled out to 7/16 thru holes and welded to the bracket . I don't believe this method would have held the brackets as securely as what I have now.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: kb426 on February 12, 2015, 05:57:35 PM
Where's the pics?
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on February 12, 2015, 10:09:15 PM
Wheres the pix...........I never seem to take any and worse ,I need help from my daughter to put them up. I have been here many years and never posted a picture. If I ever spend the time and get it figured ,the internet may have a brown out as I start sending a decade worth of back up shots. And then I would get even less done in the shop. I am taking this computer to a friend for a tuneup and maybe he can get me schooled on the pictures thing.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: kb426 on February 12, 2015, 10:46:44 PM
When you click on reply, the next bold print under that is "add an attachment". You click on "choose file" which will allow you to look through your computer files until you find the desired pic. As long as the file isn't too large, you doubleclick on the pic file and it will be listed in the next box under choose file. You click "add attachment" and it should list it under that. You hit submit and you're done. There are several addins that allow you to right click on a pic and resize it if it's too large for the forum rules.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on February 13, 2015, 06:06:21 PM
ill try
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on February 13, 2015, 06:06:46 PM
didn't work!
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: enjenjo on February 13, 2015, 07:41:34 PM
Did you get any type of a message? Did you hit load attachment before you submitted it?
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on February 13, 2015, 10:50:22 PM
I went down to add attachment and clicked browse . It sent me to my computer, I found a picture and clicked ,open , the number appeared on the filename browse box. I clicked add attachment and it just kicked me back to typing in the post reply area.I may get my computer buddy to help me.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: taxpyer on February 14, 2015, 01:24:31 AM
Actually, I had the same problem trying to post pics last week :(
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: enjenjo on February 14, 2015, 11:11:44 AM
Right click on the picture, click on properties, and see if the picture exceeds the allowed size.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: tom36 on February 14, 2015, 12:09:03 PM
I use Irfanview to resize my pics to post here. http://www.irfanview.com/
It's free and you can resize pictures among other things that it will do.  I resize pixs to 640 x480 pixels and they load here fine.  Tom...
Title: gm caliper brackets
Post by: Beck on February 14, 2015, 01:18:22 PM
I read somewhere that some of the light duty GM caliper brackets are bending under heavy braking. One user had them on a buggy and was doing some brake steering. The brackets didn't survive. With your light weight you may not have an issue.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on February 14, 2015, 03:18:02 PM
try again it says internet explorer blocked pop up from my laptop. that's when I right click something when the picture is up. now I cant get to my pictures!
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: enjenjo on February 14, 2015, 04:01:31 PM
Quote from: "chimp koose"try again it says internet explorer blocked pop up from my laptop. that's when I right click something when the picture is up. now I cant get to my pictures!

At that point, on my computer, I would run a malware scan. You might check your security settings too.


honestly, you have exceeded my knowledge of computers, neither of the steps above can hurt, but they may not help.

I have a program on my computer called team viewer. My son has it on his computer too. When I run into a problem I don't understand, I get him on the phone, and he logs into my computer with a password that changes every time we use it. I have to give him the correct password. He can the see what the problem is by watching what I am doing. If need be, he can take control of my computer to fix it. Some times I can fix it myself with his directions, sometimes he has to do it. I get called an idiot a lot, but I am used to it.  :shock:  I have the free version.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on February 21, 2015, 09:23:31 PM
removed my wheel studs from the hubs today. They are swedged /peened over on the front side to lock the drum in place. If I had just pressed them out I would have ruined the hubs . Put the hubs in the mill after sawing off the studs and milled the back side of the studs off ,then pressed them out the front. A pain and time consuming to say the least. I found a wheel stud that should work well Papco 560-173 code fr . it is .002 larger on the knurl than the stock ones and should give me 1.1" of useable thread past the rotors . My wire wheels are 1/2" thick at the bolt flange so I will have 5/8" of thread out past the wheel face. Also machined the notches into my kingpins a few days ago . I need to put grease grooves into my spindle bushings and then I can assemble my front end back into the car .Steering mounts for my home made unisteer next !
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: kb426 on February 21, 2015, 09:26:05 PM
Kool!
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on February 25, 2015, 12:49:26 AM
put my steering arms on the spindles today. Econolines have a press in arm with a threaded stud retainer and a flat edge to line up to. Had 2 of my students help with the job. It was a good experience for them to help plan out the setup so the cooled parts were pressed in without running around in a panic looking for press fixtures while the frozen part warmed up. The parts fit nice and look really nice if I say so myself. If I have calculated right , based on inside spindle turning angle the car should have a curb to curb turning radius of about 38'.
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: kb426 on February 25, 2015, 08:47:52 PM
Sounds great. Umm, where are the pics of the smiling students? :)
Title: brake caliper help
Post by: chimp koose on February 25, 2015, 10:51:06 PM
couldn't post pix of students if I wanted . School division requires waivers /permission from parents to any photos or use of name attached to photo. But I get your point , I will have to figure out the photo thing one of these days.