The Rodding Roundtable
Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: enjenjo on July 26, 2010, 10:45:02 AM
I read an article last night, 8 out of 10 new vans are made by Ford. Doesn't leave too many for GM and Chrysler. :shock:
Quote from: "enjenjo"I read an article last night, 8 out of 10 new vans are made by Ford. Doesn't leave too many for GM and Chrysler. :shock:
Or the importers. Leaves me with mixed emotions, somewhat.............
Quote from: "enjenjo"I read an article last night, 8 out of 10 new vans are made by Ford. Doesn't leave too many for GM and Chrysler. :shock:
You must be talking full size vans, I can't turn around here without see a G.M. or Chrysler minivan.
Quote from: "phat46"Quote from: "enjenjo"I read an article last night, 8 out of 10 new vans are made by Ford. Doesn't leave too many for GM and Chrysler. :shock:
You must be talking full size vans, I can't turn around here without see a G.M. or Chrysler minivan.
Yes, full size.
Wait until you see the Fiat that will replace the Freightliner ..oops... Dodge..Oops ...Back to Freightliner again ..Oops ..Now Mercedes Sprinter ...2011 is supposed to be the last year for the Sprinter as we know it ... :shock: THANK GOD :!: :!: :!: :roll:
Bob...... :wink:
Gubmint Motors does have some problems.
Odd how the problems with Toyota cars disappeared from the media over night or it seems like that
Yeah, that Toyota Hysteria problem went away fast. Hard to believe they got all those cars fixed so fast.
Actually there have been news articles recently where the govmt researched the problem and it turned out to be the drivers and not the cars. They didn't get a whole lot of play.
Was just mass hysteria and jumping on the court case bandwagon like what happened with the Audi's.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703834604575364871534435744.html
I got the feeling that either they stopped chewing on Toyota or the whole company was about to go in the toilet :shock: ,,,,,,,,,,, Dammmm not even one case of hairycarey :( ............. Got rid if my mazda headache though,,,,,, I gave, yes, gave the truck away when yet another problem with it popped up. It felt good then and it still feels good now. Got a problem,,, get rid of it! :wink: 8)
Don't worry Taxpayer, the company aint about to dissapear down the gurgler. In fact it's on the way back, stronger than ever and with a level of resolve that will ensure once all the existing 'issues' are sorted there'll never be such problems again.
Quote from: "Carps"Don't worry Taxpayer, the company aint about to dissapear down the gurgler. In fact it's on the way back, stronger than ever and with a level of resolve that will ensure once all the existing 'issues' are sorted there'll never be such problems again.
that reads like a press release from the gubmint.
Was it last week a report came out that closing all the dealerships was a bad idea, not thought through and took away thousands of jobs related to the operations of the dealerships , vendors and local economy around the dealership.
Hysteria , Toyota and the news media? Goes hand n hand I guess
I'm sure Toyota was thankful for the Gulf oil spill. I t took them off the news.
Quote from: "papastoyss"I'm sure Toyota was thankful for the Gulf oil spill. I t took them off the news.
The same way Tiger Woods was happy that
Toyota took him off the front page.
Not too worried about Toyo, they have a quality culture that goes back decades, just got lost for a bit.
I'm not surprised if the unintended acceleration cases mostly or entirely turn out to be feet on the wrong pedal. That's been the case with every unintended acceleration case up to this point.
Ford seems to be on a roll and it's entirely due to having car guys at the helm again. I rode in a new Taurus last week. While it's a pretty good sized car it's very well built and well appointed. The owner loves it. The AWD SHO version might even help them preserve the police market that'll go away with the Crown Vic if they'll put the good mechanicals in a police-utilitarian package for price.
GM is a sad case. They invented, production-perfected, or popularized so many technologies over the years. After 1964 every CEO came up through the Accounting ranks. No wonder they starved and almost died. I believe strongly that you can't build an outstanding product if you don't have a passion for the industry.
I'll never understand why the Chrysler/Daimler Benz marriage didn't work. Seems like a no-brainer. Use last generation MB chassis to build new Chryco products. The engineering would certainly be adequate for a moderately priced offering, compromise some on the materials and redesign some of the expensive bits to keep the cost down, wrap it in a style Americans can understand. Should work. I think the cultures just didn't mesh properly.
Cerburus is simply comprised of criminals. They bought an empty shell from Daimler Benz for the express purpose of selling a pig in a poke to someone else. No product development infrastructure, aging products, and the need to make a bunch of money flipping the property. They're the piece of the auto industry bail out I have the biggest problem with. The US taxpayer has more or less made Cerburus whole for their investment. I wish Fiat the best, it would be a shame to see even more names with history hit the dustbin.
FOMOCO has certainl;y been the quiet achiever over the last couple of years.
They identified and admitted to themselves their problems then set about a program of fixing them.
Developed & introduced a great product then made the tough calls on marginal lines and brands.
Got rid of the fat and unprofitable low volume stuff and used the profit and learnings from Mustang to develop the next generation volume sellers.
As for their trucks, they stuck with Henry's tried and well proven philosophy, if it aint broke, don't fix it, just make it better.
It's a shame they've not been applauded by the gummint, but hey I guess it's tough to say nice things about the competition. :wink:
I think some of the success at ford has been due to buyer confidence. They did not go for a bailout . This might instill a little confidence in the buyer who may otherwise question whether or not a company will be around to honour a warranty.Also the buying public may be more inclined to support a company that is not being propped up by their tax dollar as a reward for handling their own problems.
I kinda think Ford just happens to be building what folks want to buy.
About a year ago, I was talking to a recently retired Ford Exec at a car show. He said that there had been a shakeup at Fords' management and that I should watch for the changes to show up in they're products. At the time, I didn't pay too much attention. But I have seen a big change. The cars are alot nicer and the quality seems to be much better. After owning a long of GM vehicles, my next new car will probably be a Ford product.
Quote from: "Carnut"I kinda think Ford just happens to be building what folks want to buy.
That's always where the real action is, for sure.
Quote from: "zzford"About a year ago, I was talking to a recently retired Ford Exec at a car show. He said that there had been a shakeup at Fords' management and that I should watch for the changes to show up in they're products. At the time, I didn't pay too much attention. But I have seen a big change. The cars are alot nicer and the quality seems to be much better. After owning a long of GM vehicles, my next new car will probably be a Ford product.
while i like the fact ford didn't take gov. money, i still wouldn't have one of their trucks....
Ford did not take bail out money , so I do look at that
I had a Ford truck : 2001 Super Crew F-150. It was a decent truck. It had short comings, so does my current 2006 Silverado crew cab 1500
8)
Ford has produced some better product recently. I am not in the market for a car yet unless my VW Jetta diesel car dies or is crashed. I just installed a new Walmart battery with 3 yr free replacement to replace the failed Walmart battery that was 2 yrs and 1 month old
:lol:
If there's something the American companies have a real problem with it's staying focused. They build good cars, then they throw it all away to cheap down the product in a misguided effort to increase profits. I say misguided because the years that they build bad product it destroys any good will they've built up and they always have to sell at a lower price than some of their competitors as a result.
There's also frequently a lack of content, as if they don't even believe they can try to compete on that level. An example is the Ford Focus. They've built a very effective entry in the pocket rocket category and sold it for years in Europe. The hardware already exists, why not sell that car in the US? Instead the usual approach was to try to cheap down the materials enough to undercut the competing Honda, for example, by enough to sell strictly on the basis of price. Not everyone is a car guy, but nearly everyone wants to feel good in their car. So it needs to look good, present the impression of quality, and feel good as you operate the controls.
Quote from: "jaybee"If there's something the American companies have a real problem with it's staying focused. They build good cars, then they throw it all away to cheap down the product in a misguided effort to increase profits. I say misguided because the years that they build bad product it destroys any good will they've built up and they always have to sell at a lower price than some of their competitors as a result.
There's also frequently a lack of content, as if they don't even believe they can try to compete on that level. An example is the Ford Focus. They've built a very effective entry in the pocket rocket category and sold it for years in Europe. The hardware already exists, why not sell that car in the US? Instead the usual approach was to try to cheap down the materials enough to undercut the competing Honda, for example, by enough to sell strictly on the basis of price. Not everyone is a car guy, but nearly everyone wants to feel good in their car. So it needs to look good, present the impression of quality, and feel good as you operate the controls.
I tend to agree on the content of the product. We had a 2000 Impala LS car bought new.. It have some problems , but was a good car for the money and decent MPG for the size of car.
GM brought back some fellow to streamline operations. I forget his name, he was an old fart, be around Detroit auto makers a long time. First thing he did was remove content from the cars. I remember a comment of his about :" A person is not going to decide to buy a car or not if there are no extenders on the visors.
The Jetta we currently own has several little things that most folks would not care about, but i like . The wiper blades are moved slightly when the ignition is cycled a certain number of times. That keeps the rubber from sitting in one position for long times. At first I thought something was wrong with the wipers when they would move as you shut the key off. Kinda wacky the Germans worry about that stuff
8)
Apparently he was old enough to be cranky but not old enough--or well informed enough--to realize that when GM ruled the automotve world it was because their cars were just a little bit better than everyone elses at a competitive price. Buyers haven't changed that much, it's what we still want.
I sat in an HHR SS once. Nice car for a people mover and 260 turbocharged horses plus wide wheels made for a sporty package, but there's no way I would've bought one and it's all down to the interior. Everything in there looked cheap, hard plastic and wasn't any better to touch. The seat was even comfortable, I just couldn't spend years looking at that dashboard.
Well someone at GM actually let the Pontiac Aztek be produced.
Then again someone at Ford actually let the Edsel be produced so, you never know.
Quote from: "Carnut"Well someone at GM actually let the Pontiac Aztek be produced.
Then again someone at Ford actually let the Edsel be produced so, you never know.
The Edsel wasn't nearly as ugly as the Aztek.
Yeah, and just 4yrs after the demise of the Edsel, Ford made up for the mistake and went and produced the Mustang.
Yes, the Edsel doesn't hold a candle to the Aztek.
Quote from: "jaybee"Apparently he was old enough to be cranky but not old enough--or well informed enough--to realize that when GM ruled the automotve world it was because their cars were just a little bit better than everyone elses at a competitive price. Buyers haven't changed that much, it's what we still want.
I went looking... it was Bob Lutz I was talking about who wacked away at content on GM stuff recently. 2002 or so?
Quote from: "unklian"Quote from: "Carnut"Well someone at GM actually let the Pontiac Aztek be produced.
Then again someone at Ford actually let the Edsel be produced so, you never know.
The Edsel wasn't nearly as ugly as the Aztek.
The Edsel wasn't ugly at all, just misunderstood (and rushed to market before it was ready/right), the Aztek, well that's a whole other question. What were they thinking?
Quote from: "Carps"Quote from: "unklian"Quote from: "Carnut"Well someone at GM actually let the Pontiac Aztek be produced.
Then again someone at Ford actually let the Edsel be produced so, you never know.
The Edsel wasn't nearly as ugly as the Aztek.
The Edsel wasn't ugly at all, just misunderstood (and rushed to market before it was ready/right), the Aztek, well that's a whole other question. What were they thinking?
The Aztek, if done right styling wise, could have been very successful. Look at the PT cruiser, Scion XB, and Kia Soul. All of them share a similar concept, but only the Aztek was unredeemably ugly.
the Aztec as puke ugly as it is and the factory accesories available for it... may a sought after collectible vehicle down the road.
Better buy one now while they are cheap. It may be the next exciting barn find in 30 - 60 yrs
You can't aways judge someone by one incident.
Not too many years ago Cadillac was nearly moribund......most of it's customer base were people old enough to be buying their last car....oh, and the coach makers building the rigs to give them their last ride. Today they seem to have some sway with the luxury/sport sedan crowd, and along with the recent Malibu are sales successes in a mixed bag. The guy responsible for that has also publicly stated something to the effect that the Volt is a dumb idea......even though he's on the payroll. That would be Bob Lutz also. One of the few real car guys in management (which means the Obama lackeys probably don't listen to him much anymore) Oh, he was also the driving force behind pushing the Viper to market at Chrysler even though they could barely afford to do it.
Sometimes we car lovers are at an understanding disadvantage. One of the things I learned years ago when I had my shop was that about 80 percent of the people out there see their cars as mere appliances in their life. They have no more emotional attachment to them than they do to their toaster. From a marketing point of view that has a significant impact.
Speaking of toasters, I get a real kick out of the most recent Kia Soul commercial, the one with the rappin' rats. If you don't get the inside joke about the toaster and cardboard box references you're either not their target market or don't have contact with those that are.
Heh, heh, I guess I am "not their target market or don't have contact with those that are" because I totally don't understand that commercial.
OOPS, my recollection on Lutz's criticism on the Volt was incorrect, it's the notion of global warming that he thinks is nuts.
Carnut, there's a partial hint in Franks Aztek entry above. :wink:
Quote from: "Carnut"Heh, heh, I guess I am "not their target market or don't have contact with those that are" because I totally don't understand that commercial.
Okay, since you're a visual kind of guy, below is a picture of the Scion reference. The cardboard box is a reference to the jab that the Honda Element is the box they ship the Civics in. I guess you could call it ricer humor.....
neighbor had an Aztec.. she loved the vehicle, admitted it was a bit ugly.
I do not watch commercials on TV. I record 90% of TV shows I watch on DVR , so I buzz through commercials on fast forward.
I never understood the caddy SUV thing... why pay 5k to 10 k more $$ for a vehicle that does the same as a GMC or Cheby .
I see many Chevys with Caddy look alike stick on stuff , like fender vents , emblems , etc ... Caddy front sheet metal clips on Chevys
OK, just watched the Kia Rat commercial and saw the toaster and box car scenes and can now understand what statement may have been being made.
But still wonder about the Rats, whats the deal with them?
Can't they be considered making fun of a certain racial group?
Quote from: "Carnut"OK, just watched the Kia Rat commercial and saw the toaster and box car scenes and can now understand what statement may have been being made.
But still wonder about the Rats, whats the deal with them?
Can't they be considered making fun of a certain racial group?
I thought of that too. By the way, they are hamsters.
Quote from: "enjenjo"Quote from: "Carnut"OK, just watched the Kia Rat commercial and saw the toaster and box car scenes and can now understand what statement may have been being made.
But still wonder about the Rats, whats the deal with them?
Can't they be considered making fun of a certain racial group?
I thought of that too. By the way, they are hamsters.
I could go on a whole riff on the false charges of racism thing, but we don't generally do politics here. Let's just say that the charge is abused/overused to the point of uselessness. Which is not to say that some good folks aren't still affected by it, right or wrong.
The current one is the second time they've used the hamster theme. The idea being that hamsters are noted for running the wheel and getting nowhere. With this commercial the implication is, drive a Kia Soul and you're getting somewhere. There is a third one in the works for release in November. I probably caused confusion with the "rappin' rat" reference because hamsters, to me, look like rats without tails, and I just like the alliteration of the r words run together.
I'm doing a poll on another forum and it's pretty clear that folks over say, oh 35, focus more on the hip hop "music" component than the message of the competing cars inferiority (by Kias estimation). It's that target audience thing again. But from an advertising point of view this commercial is working great. How many times have you remembered a cute commercial but can't remember what product it's for about a minute or two after it's done. That ain't happening with this one, folks (at keast the likely buyers) remember who it's for.
Anyway, to tie it back in to the original point of the thread, it will be interesting to see if GM can figure out a way to effectively advertise it's product. What would be a way to market the Volt to the holier than thou, eco-* types anyway? :D
Heh, heh, I think the Volt is gonna follow the Aztek into GM's hall of shame.
since I laid on the couch most of the day and the TV was on , I saw this commercial with the rodents, Kia and toaster.
I safely say I do not get it.
Quote from: "Crosley"since I laid on the couch most of the day and the TV was on , I saw this commercial with the rodents, Kia and toaster.
I safely say I do not get it.
So it's safe to assume that the hamster themed clothing line this commercial series is spawning won't be on your Christmas wish list? :lol: :lol:
Quote from: "enjenjo"Quote from: "Carnut"OK, just watched the Kia Rat commercial and saw the toaster and box car scenes and can now understand what statement may have been being made.
But still wonder about the Rats, whats the deal with them?
Can't they be considered making fun of a certain racial group?
I thought of that too. By the way, they are hamsters.
i thought they were gerbils and the target market was richard gere....
and i don't get it, either.
anyway, it looks loke another copycat scion xb to me...
Don't give up on GM yet!! With this kind of marketing savvy it won't be long now.......
Take THAT you silly hamsters! :D
Definitely brings back visions of 'See The USA In Your Chevrolet'.
Quote from: "Uncle Bob"Don't give up on GM yet!! With this kind of marketing savvy it won't be long now.......
Take THAT you silly hamsters! :D
i got thru 10 seconds before i puked...
wow, a whole 40 miles before ya gotta plug it in and get some of that "free" electricity... :roll:
I would like to trry the car on our commute. it is 35 miles each way. If I could plug the car in and charge it during the day at work that would work. My work place would expect some cash for the power = which is fair.
At the price for the car , they can KMA
Does any body remember how far the EV-1 would travel on a full charge?
I get a kick out of electric cars being touted as zero emissions. That electricity came from somewhere.
Quote from: "chimp koose"I get a kick out of electric cars being touted as zero emissions. That electricity came from somewhere.
sometimes, and this is true more everyday, it comes from wind or solar.
later jim
Quote from: "chimp koose"I get a kick out of electric cars being touted as zero emissions. That electricity came from somewhere.
Even if the energy source is green, how much emissions
were created to manufacture these types of cars ?
I'm 59 and have owned GM cars since I was 16, with a couple of Chrysler products thrown in (never again, sorry MOPAR fans), but I think they mishandled Oldsmobile and Pontiac, never advertising either like they should have and right now they don't offer a single vehicle I would be interested in, except maybe a Caddy CTS-V but that's out of my price range. If/when the day comes to by a new car I'm going with Ford, they have impressed the heck out of recently. However, my street rods will always be Chevy's. 8)
Quote from: "unklian"Quote from: "chimp koose"I get a kick out of electric cars being touted as zero emissions. That electricity came from somewhere.
Even if the energy source is green, how much emissions
were created to manufacture these types of cars ?
i would think "comparable" to gas powered vehicles. the only alternative to that would be to NOT make ANY more cars. i hope we never get that green :?
later jim
ah, that Wind and Solar energy ain't exactly free or cheap.
Quote from: "lofat46"I'm 59 and have owned GM cars since I was 16, with a couple of Chrysler products thrown in (never again, sorry MOPAR fans), but I think they mishandled Oldsmobile and Pontiac, never advertising either like they should have and right now they don't offer a single vehicle I would be interested in, except maybe a Caddy CTS-V but that's out of my price range. QuoteIf/when the day comes to by a new car I'm going with Ford, they have impressed the heck out of recently
. However, my street rods will always be Chevy's. 8)
You prolly grew "Used to them" over the years ... :) 'Specially the "form fitting bucket seats" & the "lock-out" low gears ..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hey ...You goin' to Hampshire Sunday????
Bob...... :wink:
We are starting to have issues with some of the Hybrid's in our fleets as they gain mileage ..People looking to buy in the used car sector don't realize the cost of repairs once the 8yr /100K mile Hybrid system warranty expires....
How about $3900.00 installed for a '05 Prius battery? How many people know that Hybrid's have a separate "Cabin Filter" for the battery compartment?? Or putting '09 Malibu's in New Mexico , Arizona & Utah with no spare tires or jacks?? You see...There is no room for them in the vehicle ..... :roll: And the "flat tires" you get in those remote areas cannot be resolved with the "fix-a-flat" that comes with the car....Who covers the $350.00-- $550.00 tow to get the car to the nearest replacement tire :?: OUCH :!: :!: A LOT of fuel must be saved to cover those kind of "adventures"...... :roll:
Bob....... :wink:
Quote from: "UGLY OLDS"We are starting to have issues with some of the Hybrid's in our fleets as they gain mileage ..People looking to buy in the used car sector don't realize the cost of repairs once the 8yr /100K mile Hybrid system warranty expires....
How about $3900.00 installed for a '05 Prius battery? How many people know that Hybrid's have a separate "Cabin Filter" for the battery compartment?? Or putting '09 Malibu's in New Mexico , Arizona & Utah with no spare tires or jacks?? You see...There is no room for them in the vehicle ..... :roll: And the "flat tires" you get in those remote areas cannot be resolved with the "fix-a-flat" that comes with the car....Who covers the $350.00-- $550.00 tow to get the car to the nearest replacement tire :?: OUCH :!: :!: A LOT of fuel must be saved to cover those kind of "adventures"...... :roll:
Bob....... :wink:
A fellow at work traded off his Camry hybrid synergy drive car. Near 90k miles on it.
he siad the cost of a hybrid battery failure was something he could not get out of his mind. So...... he bought new a Honda Civic
8)
Quote from: "Crosley"I saw this commercial with the rodents, Kia and toaster.
I safely say I do not get it.
Some things just weren't to be Tony :wink: