The Rodding Roundtable
Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: WZ JUNK on January 11, 2010, 03:20:11 PM
I am ready to buy the paint for the 54 Chevy that I have been working on forever. I really wanted to use a good paint and Dupont is my preference and I want to use a single stage urethane paint. I went to Oriellys this morning as I get a little discount there. It was $433 a gallon and I need two gallons plus the activator and reducer. That means a little under $1,000 for materials. Now I am shopping for other brands. I priced Matrix brand from another paint store that I deal with and it comes in at about $200 a gallon. It will take a little more product as it does not reduce as much and I do not know how good it covers.
The last couple of paint projects I did, did not require a premium paint. The paint for Hooley"s Henry J was $88 a gallon and it went on good but I really wanted a better quality for this project as we intend to keep it a long time.
Does anyone have any thoughts or preference on paint? What is the best buy for my money?
John
Check out Urethane Enamel like Ditzler Starthane or some of the other urethane enamels. It is much less expensive than base coat/clear coat urethane. My first street rod was painted with single stage Urethane Enamel, and I could not tell it from urethane.
John,
I've heard good about Kirker paints. I took a look at their website but didn't get in deep. Looks reasonably priced.
$400 a gallon for any paint is getting stupid. Look at Sherwin Williams, R-M also.
I'm using acrylic lacquer from Restoration Shop in San Diego on my '40. It comes a little thinner than the old AL's I remember on the color, calls for going 1:1 mix. Seems to work pretty good but it's a bit more work. I bought my stuff a couple years ago but I don't recall what I spent, but it was dumb cheaper than urethane.
Charlie
These are the guys I use.... http://www.tcpglobal.com/autobodydepot/
I can buy from them and have it shipped for less than buying local
Also if you buy enough (I think $250) they ship for free
MM64 8)
There was an article in rod & custom or hot rod where they used the new paint that Summit was selling. If I remember right it had good reviews. I see if I can find the article. I think someone on the hamb posted about it also.
bob
Let me save you some grief if you'll let me. All single stage fades, period. Don't do that unless it's your only option. Now, I use Kirker with clear with good results. The cheapest place to buy is smartshoppersinc.com. You can't order from their website. You have to call and talk to a human. I've placed at least 15 orders since 2001 and have yet for them to make an error. Summit and Eastwood sell their product. The Kirker people try very hard at making sure you get what you should. Order more than enough product so if you make a mistake, you will have the same batch number of paint. The color match isn't perfect from batch to batch. If you have any questions, I'd be glad to help.
I have used Kirker primers with good results. A local friend whom has done a lot of painting over the last 30 years used their base/clear on his 32 with very good results. He thought it was as good as the premium paints. Bought mine from here;
http://www.smartshoppersinc.com/AutomotiveFinishes/AutomotiveFinishes.html
Price is very good.
Ken
Quote from: "kb426"Let me save you some grief if you'll let me. All single stage fades, period. Don't do that unless it's your only option. Now, I use Kirker with clear with good results. The cheapest place to buy is smartshoppersinc.com. You can't order from their website. You have to call and talk to a human. I've placed at least 15 orders since 2001 and have yet for them to make an error. Summit and Eastwood sell their product. The Kirker people try very hard at making sure you get what you should. Order more than enough product so if you make a mistake, you will have the same batch number of paint. The color match isn't perfect from batch to batch. If you have any questions, I'd be glad to help.
I am curious about your comment about single stage paint. I prefer to use it and I have never had a problem. Have you personally had problems?
John
Yes, I've had problems. My stuff sits outside most of the time. In 3 years the single stage has faded. I have used Kirker and PPG Omni with the same results. Several years ago, there was a thread on this forum or the hamb about this and there were many posters that had the same exp. All my work was done on bare metal, urethane primer, epoxy sealer and not swapping brands. I'm not an expert but I was a painter back in the 60's. I have painted sporadically my whole life. I have enough equipment to be dangerous. :lol:
Has anyone tried the duplicolor paints ? they are laquer and I was wondering about the quality. They sell a clearcoat as well but if it is laquer I wonder how it holds up.A local auto parts dealer here sells it for about $25 a quart.
try
omni, or i think its duponts budget brand called shopline... i think both are sold by dupont suppliers.. they both covered great for me.
i used concept clear
Shopline is by PPG and it replaced Omni. We have used it for a couple of years with very good results. It is about half the cost of reg. PPG line. We had bad luck with Matrix a couple of years ago with no help from the company. The Duplicolor lacquer being sold is already thinned and doesn't cover that great so it's not really a bargain.
A lot of these bargain priced paints are of inconsistent quality and if you have a problem chances are you won't get it fixed.
When we put as much time and sweat as it takes into a project, why chintz on quality at the end? This is the part we have to look at.
Buy from your local paint store, they can help you if something goes wrong.
Quote from: "kb426"Yes, I've had problems. My stuff sits outside most of the time. In 3 years the single stage has faded. I have used Kirker and PPG Omni with the same results. Several years ago, there was a thread on this forum or the hamb about this and there were many posters that had the same exp. All my work was done on bare metal, urethane primer, epoxy sealer and not swapping brands. I'm not an expert but I was a painter back in the 60's. I have painted sporadically my whole life. I have enough equipment to be dangerous. :lol:
I appreciate your comments. I may change my mind and go with the base clear. I do not want to.
John
Something else to consider if you have a Dupont dealer handy would be Imron single stage, it goes on nice, it can be buffed if need be and it does not fade! Several years ago I painted my wrecker and 2 shop trucks with Imron and they sat outside in midwest weather for four years and were still perfect. The same with several customer vehicles also. A friend of mine has a black Dodge 4w drive I painted 6 years ago ( Imron) that still looks new and has never been garaged. Anyway this is another choice in single stage.
Check out Southern Polyurethanes; a small business but good. I did a lot of research before I went with them and talked to a lot of pro painters that had used his products and praised them. Check out his forums as he has had some long time pro painters that are happy and have stuck with him for years.
The only thing he doesn't make is base coats anymore. I bought some of his last base coats before he stopped making them.
Southern Polyurethane clears have been used on many famous cars including the mustang that the producer of several car shows owns.
Here's some pics of my car that I painted. It was my first ever paint job and I had a LOT of advice from the owner of Southern Polyurethanes:
http://s224.photobucket.com/albums/dd16/csmartin33/
Steve
A friend and I painted his wheel barrow with imron 15 years ago :shock: ,,,,,,,,,,, it's still shinny and nice inside and out. :D It's out in the weather all the time. Didn't even sand or prime it. :oops: The car we did still looks great too. :roll: Very toxic though ,, use a fresh air mask for this stuff or any as far as that goes. 8)
I did a lot of reading on the internet. There seems to be two major schools of thought and very convincing arguments for both sides. The major differences are on single stage and base/clear. Then each of these are divided into premium brands and second line paints. One thought that most everyone agrees on is that if you shoot single stage, do not pick a metallic color.
The fading part is bothering me as I am painting a Victory Red GM color and my experience has been that reds tend to fade more with time. However this car will be stored in a garage and that should help.
I plan to do some more reading and visit with a few of the guys I know locally and then I will have to make a decision. Thanks for all the input.
John
Red pigments are prone to fading, the less expensive pigments are worse for this.
With a Red, I would say basecoat/clearcoat. Some reds tend to darken in the sun, some get lighter. I have had good luck with Martin Senour paints. If you can use a fleet color, they have several reds that are prepacked, better color control, and usually a better price.
One problem with single stage metallc fading is buffing or sanding and buffing, that exposes the aluminum powder that makes up the metallic to the sunlight and it will indeed fade. So unless you can spray single stage like glass you will probably be better off using B/C.
Good Luck!
My 2cents worth on single stage is that the DuPont Centari on my truck is lasting longer than I wish it would. It's been painted around 17 years and I sanded & buffed it. If it was fading I might find the ambition to change the color....but no, it's still as shiny as when it was fresh. Just a few stars and normal wear from lots of miles. Using a non metallic single stage makes it easier for me to touch up chips and other boo boo's.
I'm a "wing it and hope for the best" kind of guy and don't really know much about paint tho. It's good to read opinions of those of you that do know what you're doing.
John, I'm sure I'll have the same dilemma you're having when I do repaint.
George, Centari has been hard to beat for durability but I sure like the faster drying of the urethanes especially where I am painting.
I am presently looking at the Dupont Nason line. It appears they have six offerings of single stage urethane. I will see if I can sort through the tech stuff before I go to the paint store and ask stupid questions.
John
I shot plenty of Centari paint years ago. that stuff held up well. I had it on my 71 chev truck. If the paint started to fade-dull out a bit, buff it up some.
Have not picked up a paint gun to paint a vehicle in 10+ Years. I worked for a custom paint shop in the 70's when vans were THE thing to own.
I am looking to get back into painting my stuff ... the costs sure have changed since I put the guns down
I think the last gallon of centari acrylic enamel I shot cost about $80. Its been a while! In my first year of teaching I was assigned the task of painting an extended cab van that the previous years students had done the bodywork on. The local body shop would NOT paint it or even let us use his booth because the body work was so bad he didnt want anyone seeing the vehicle coming out of his shop (I dont blame him!). The "finish work " or bondo sculpting was literally done with an angle grinder. I sprayed it pure white to hopefully hide the workmanship,not a paint code, but the stuff you add toner to to get the paint code colours . It was so bright you could hardly look at in daylight .
when i painted the 50, 5 years ago, i went with martin/seymour single stage, and then "fixed" any errors, and scuffed the entire vehicle, then shot a clearcoat over the top of it. the paint hasn't faded, and i had a slight bit of damage last year after the house burned, ( the cleanup people stacked boxes in the shop, and they fell over and did a number on the side), but when i resprayed the damage, it blended quite well
http://www.crownvic.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1138&d=1187760204
and
http://www.crownvic.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1139&d=1187760217
alot of good info here. thanks for sharing
A PPG rep once told me that a typical hot rod spends most of its' time in a garage, out of the elements. He advised me that for that application, top of the line paint isn't nessesary. I went with a decent quality acrylic enamal with hardener and it's held up very well for about eight years now.
john, we use ppg premium on all of our customers cars, base clear, however the AU ppg single stage dries very fast and covers good and i think in victory red (resellable red) you can beat o reallys price at a paint store. how soon do you needd it. I can get it at my store and bring to the potluck dinner and let hooley pack it back to your neck of the woods if you want me to buy it... sam
Quote from: "dragrcr50"john, we use ppg premium on all of our customers cars, base clear, however the AU ppg single stage dries very fast and covers good and i think in victory red (resellable red) you can beat o reallys price at a paint store. how soon do you needd it. I can get it at my store and bring to the potluck dinner and let hooley pack it back to your neck of the woods if you want me to buy it... sam
Sam, thank you for the offer. I do appreciate it. I bought some Nason today and I have prepared a test panel. Tomorrow I will test it out and see what I think of it. Nason is similiar to the product you mentioned but a Dupont product. My old truck is painted with the paint you mentioned and it has held up well over the years. It was the single stage black with a flatner added. Let us see how the trial goes.
John
no prob, the last i saw of nason on a nissan, haha it turned from red to pink in about two months ... dunno why but he had to repaint it .... later,,,,,,