The Rodding Roundtable

Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: taxpyer on November 24, 2009, 04:43:04 PM

Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: taxpyer on November 24, 2009, 04:43:04 PM
I am finishing a new shop 30X60. It's divided into three 20X30 bays. Does anyone have any good ideas about bench/work space layout that will help me avoid the old "damm I wish I hadn't put that there" thing.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: enjenjo on November 24, 2009, 07:37:30 PM
I would set up one for dirty work, welding, grinding, ect. One for bodywork and paint. And one for clean work, final assembly. As an alternate to bodywork bay, you could set up that one with you machine tools. And a hoist in the final assembly bay.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Leon on November 24, 2009, 08:37:48 PM
I wouldn't build in a lot of workbench space, it just collects junk.  Build a couple benches on rollers that you can take to the area you're working in.  One heavy all steel one is good for welding, and one that has a wood top with a replaceable masonite cover is good for just about everything else.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: unklian on November 25, 2009, 12:10:00 AM
Don't make the benches too deep, definite junk collectors.

Lots of shelves up high, compressor outside, lots of electrical outlets.

Maybe look on the garagejournal.com board for ideas.
Title: Re: Shop layout ideas
Post by: taxpyer on November 25, 2009, 03:58:23 AM
How about Ideas for the messy parts washer we all have stuffed into the corner?




Quote from: "taxpyer"I am finishing a new shop 30X60. It's divided into three 20X30 bays. Does anyone have any good ideas about bench/work space layout that will help me avoid the old "damm I wish I hadn't put that there" thing.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: oiler on November 26, 2009, 11:00:08 PM
I just finished a 32x40 shop and i went with a 16 ft bench on one side wall and 2 rolling benchs 3x6
works good for having a bench in the far bays without taking up permanent room
ditto on the Garagejournal website Ions of ideas there
Jeff
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Charlie Chops 1940 on November 26, 2009, 11:28:50 PM
You guys are all wrong about benches...gotta have lots of them, with shelves underneath...where else ya gonna store all those precious rusty car parts, among other things? I believe in lots of them, and keeping them full - LOL.

Charlie
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Carnut on November 26, 2009, 11:37:52 PM
Yes, one does need lots of work bench space.

(http://goldmonkey.org/images/carnut/P7089218.jpg)

(http://goldmonkey.org/images/carnut/P7089222.jpg)
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: wayne petty on November 27, 2009, 03:27:04 PM
just a question... planning on using all 3 bays for cars????  or just having your tools and equipment along the back wall???

having most work benches on wheels is a great idea...  but one with a vice on it.. needs to have solid legs for pounding on...   perhaps you could rig up some trailer tongue jacks with wheels on it... to be able to live them to move them around... or a crossbeam on each end with some kind of flange or washer under.. so you can jack up the work bench with your floor jack to move them around....     perhaps designing the work benches with crossbar at the height of a HF moving dolly in mind..

i am hoping in the next few months to get my own shop up and running.. i am so tired of working outside or in other peoples shops...
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: GPster on November 27, 2009, 04:54:30 PM
I'm going to change mine tomorrow while my son and son-in-law are here to help. This is my first garage and due to variuos reasons it was built   16' x 32'. I figured that 16' was wide enough for for a car with some room to work around it and I'd have 16' x 16' at the head of the garage for my work benches and the overhead heater and room to work on projects that were smaller than a whole car. Because all my tools and spare parts were supposed to be neatly stored I went wild buying shelves. I have about 32' in length of 1' deep metal shelves 60" high starting at floor level. It would cut my width down to 14' but with a shelf for everything that would be enough room to get on all sides of a car. Now I have 3 rolling toolboxes that when they're where you need them there's hardly any room to get around them to what you're working on. I'm going to tear my shelves out and apart then re-construct them. I'm going to fasten them to the walls and hang them from the ceiling so that I have free floor space. Then can push my rolling tool chests clear to the wall.  I'll make the shelves double thickness (2') so that the things that I use all the time can sit near the edge of the shelves and the stuff that I'm storing can be on the back of the shelves near the wall. One other suggestion, make the bay that you work on cars in the center bay. When I want to stand back and admire my work I have to push it outside. I can't see the whole side of a car with only a couple of feet to back up and look. You'd have a visual advantage if you had a bay on either side to back into so you can judge your work. GPster
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: UGLY OLDS on November 27, 2009, 06:23:44 PM
I too agree on NO horizontal spaces what so ever... They only collect trash & "things" ..... :?

Charlie ..Those "precious rusty car parts" belong in the house ..Preferably in a bedroom closet ...Less chance of the getting Lost or "injured" there..

The "Extra" precious rusty car parts ALWAYS go under the bed for safekeeping ...... :lol:  :lol:  :roll:

BUT  :!:   My vote goes to Carnut for the best "permanently mounted" bench grinder I have seen to date ...  :shock:  You can even work "all around the wheel" if needed....   :idea:




Bob......... :wink:
Title: Re: Shop layout ideas
Post by: taxpyer on November 28, 2009, 05:16:32 AM
Carnut I loved your pics. I too have ended up with the same thing in my shop for years. I sure appreciate all of the suggestions everyone has made and believe me I am going to implement most all of them.
    This 60 ft building is divided into three bays two for automotive and one for crafts/woodwork(my wife and I have planned this). I have three projects   :roll:  :oops:  a '47 willys Cj2a, a '57 willys PU, and a '23T pickup so one bay will be for parking mainly but I am excavating another 20' area at the end of the building for covered parking outside. Should have power hooked up by Xmas, all wired now, then insulte and finish. Locked up and wired I'm into it for about $25,000. I have done everything myself except place and finish the concrete.





Quote from: "taxpyer"I am finishing a new shop 30X60. It's divided into three 20X30 bays. Does anyone have any good ideas about bench/work space layout that will help me avoid the old "damm I wish I hadn't put that there" thing.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Uncle Bob on November 29, 2009, 08:58:25 AM
When you think you've figured enough electical outlets, double the number.  Same for plumbing air fittings to the walls, though not quite as critical as the electrical (the outside, protected compressor is an excellent suggestion).  You didn't mention height or if there's space overhead.  Overhead decked area always comes in handy for storage of "long term treasures", the "someday I might need that" sort of stuff.  Also lots of light, again, twice what you at first think is a lot.  The older you get the more it helps.  

This will be more controversial; I like the painted floor I did.  I used the Rustoleum kit you can buy at any big box retailer/home center.  I put it down after the concrete had cured, and followed the prep directions.  It's been down for 7 years now without any of the usual problems other folks have posted up that they've had.  It's put up with automotive paint spills, solvent, acid splatter, welding slag, brake fluid, coolant, oil, and so on.  All of which wipe or mop up easily, especially if done soon after hitting the floor.  It's resisted dragging heavy stuff over it as well has steel wheeled equipment/tools.  I've gotten a couple discolored spots, but not too bad.  It makes sweeping a dream, and helps discipline me to keep a cleaner work space.  I went with light grey and I think it reflects a bit of light which helps.

Other niceties; clocks, thermometers, music, heat and vent, and of course a refreshment refrigerator.  Maybe even a computer for internet access (I use the one in the garage as a juke box, there are sites that have large catalogs of stored songs from all eras).
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Grandadeo on November 29, 2009, 11:30:30 AM
My shop is 24' X 40' with 10' X 12' in one corner lost to an office area with 12' of floor to ceiling shelves to hold all those treasured car magazines that I hardly ever look at, a TV with satellite hookup for sirius radio, and an A/C unit.  The other 10' X 12' behind the office is where the work bench, welding table, drill press bench grinders, polisher, etc. are located.  I put a 220 outlet there, plus on at the other far end wall, and one by the overhead door at the driveway.  Have an overhead door on the back wall also that really gets a much needed breeze going through the place in the summer.

Tomorrow I will be starting an expedition into the shop to find the floor, the work bench top, etc. and get ORGANIZED then get back to work on my '48 F-1 Panel.  My question to all of you is how to plumb my air system to get dry air.  Plus the best material to use in the process.  That's the one thing I never got around to doing.  Currently just running a hose off the compressor with a water separator that does not do very much good when using a lot of air.  I'm sure this has been discussed here in the past but I'm looking forward to all your input so I can finally do this the right way and run lines around most of the garage with a few outlets to plug hoses into.

Lee
Title: Re: Shop layout ideas
Post by: papastoyss on November 29, 2009, 11:41:38 AM
Quote from: "taxpyer"I am finishing a new shop 30X60. It's divided into three 20X30 bays. Does anyone have any good ideas about bench/work space layout that will help me avoid the old "damm I wish I hadn't put that there" thing.
Pegboard! I put up 2 4x8 sheets along 1 wall & hung up things I don't use a lot such as tow straps, c clamps levels.\, body work vise grips, things that take up a lot of room in my tool box.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Digger on November 29, 2009, 01:34:44 PM
I am fortunate to have a lot of room and I built a four by eight bench with masonite top. But what has turned out to be a good idea is I inlaid a two by two piece of 3/16 steel in one corner which is great for beating on stuff.
Also welded sq.tubing in two places in the steel (flush on top) then made adaptors for Beverly shear, stretcher/shrinker bead roller etc. That way they are all out of the way when not in use , when you need one just drop it in.
Also built a mobile table for the chop saw and put wheels on the brake, shear, and mill drill.
As for plumbing the air, the line works best if it is up high and drops down to the fitting, also drop about a foot below the fittings an put a drain in the bottom. 1/2 in. line should be enough for a shop your size. Also the upper line should drop a little toward the compressor so moisture drains back. There are different products on the market you could investigate but I just use galv. pipe. Buy yourself the best dessicant dryer you can afford and remember to drain tank often.

 Oh and be sure to put a flexible line between the compressor and your plumbing.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: purplepickup on November 29, 2009, 02:20:24 PM
Quote from: "Digger"......I inlaid a two by two piece of 3/16 steel in one corner which is great for beating on stuff.
Also welded sq.tubing in two places in the steel (flush on top) then made adaptors for Beverly shear, stretcher/shrinker bead roller etc. That way they are all out of the way when not in use , when you need one just drop it in.
Also built a mobile table for the chop saw and put wheels on the brake, shear, and mill drill.
Good to see you here Digger.  Your posts have always been helpful on the other site...and now here too.  I like the idea of mounting a piece of plate on the bench top along with a way to quick mount things to it.  

I have as many things on wheels as possible.  It is a great help in quickly reorganizing the shop for different projects, or just plain getting things out of the way.  

Retractable drop cords hanging around the shop come in handy too.

A tall bench or two really helps slow down back pain from bending while you're working.  

As unklian said earlier high storage keeps a lot of clutter organized but up off the floor and bench tops.  I have two rows of wire shelving near the ceiling going around the whole shop.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: jaybee on November 29, 2009, 03:56:28 PM
I really like the idea of inlaying a steel plate on the bench.  I have a spare piece of plate just laying around that would be perfect for that.  Including a place to drop in other tools sounds great too, I have to remember that.

Putting my compressor outside is the best thing I've ever done for livability in my shop.  Yeah, the tools still make noise but not having that compressor noise in the shop means there's less total noise and it's quiet when a tool isn't triggered.

My plumbing is 3/4" copper because I like working with that material.  It also transfers heat out of the air well.  To cut down on moisture it's good to have at least 10' of piping between the tank and air outlet, with a valved drip leg below your outlet.  That'll carry the droplets down past where your hose hooks in so they can be drained later, just like your tank.  It also helps to have your drops come off the top of the horizontal air line, then down.  That serves the same purpose, carrying drops of water past the drop to a drip leg at the end of the run.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Digger on November 30, 2009, 06:26:44 PM
A couple of things I forgot to mention.
I put a lever style shutoff valve for a drain on the compressor and ran a piece of tubing through the wall to outside. No more mess draining the tank! Also remember to put a shutoff valve on the compressor line in case you blow a hose, and while we are on that subject-always remember to shut it off when you are not going to be using it! I never did until I blew a hose when I was gone and it ran til it fried my compressor. that was a expensive lesson. That's when I was younger and stupider--well at least younger.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: TJ's Dad on November 30, 2009, 08:28:17 PM
My Dads place after he passed away ......

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b279/streetrodder48/TealDrive009.jpg)

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b279/streetrodder48/TealDrive005.jpg)

This was an 8 car shed ...... no room for cars tho ..  :wink:
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Crosley.In.AZ on November 30, 2009, 08:51:43 PM
I thought I had enough electrical  outlets on my shop walls... wrong,  I added more after the building was finished


For folks that may have an excess junk storage problem.... :)  1 800 GOT JUNK  may work for you.

My brother is a pak-rat. His patio is non usable with a narrow passage on it.

I went over to his house 3 weeks ago and in about 4 hours had near 1/2 of his crap on the patio  moved to the street with a sign on it "FREE"  , remainder into trash bin or  back of my truck.

The FREE stuff was mostly gone by 2pm ...  we helped the folks load their trucks , and they sent friends over for more FREE stuff


He had new(?) cartridges of caulk  that had sit on his patio so long  as I tried to pick up the tube.... it collapsed in a gooey  pile
Title: Re: Shop layout ideas
Post by: taxpyer on November 30, 2009, 10:54:48 PM
WOW, you guys, this is so excellent. Thanks so much for sharing your ideas and comments. I going to print off the whole file for reference!
The only thing is........ doesn't anyone have that oozing, dripping, smelly parts washer in the corner some where in your  shop? Any ideas on that on how to make it better?




Quote from: "taxpyer"I am finishing a new shop 30X60. It's divided into three 20X30 bays. Does anyone have any good ideas about bench/work space layout that will help me avoid the old "damm I wish I hadn't put that there" thing.
Title: Re: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Crosley.In.AZ on December 01, 2009, 12:11:13 AM
Quote from: "taxpyer"WOW, you guys, this is so excellent. Thanks so much for sharing your ideas and comments. I going to print off the whole file for reference!
The only thing is........ doesn't anyone have that oozing, dripping, smelly parts washer in the corner some where in your  shop? Any ideas on that on how to make it better?




Quote from: "taxpyer"I am finishing a new shop 30X60. It's divided into three 20X30 bays. Does anyone have any good ideas about bench/work space layout that will help me avoid the old "damm I wish I hadn't put that there" thing.

I have a transmission parts washer in the corner.. a water based unit for transmission case and parts.  You need a water hose near by.   Machine  is close to the garage door , so I can roll it out to the yard for a service when needed.  Washer is next to my tear down bench for oily trans , engines, etc.

5/8  inch sheet rock is on the walls with semi gloss paint.. every 1-2 yrs , I wash the walls down with a  degreaser - Simple Green or similar product

Make sure you have a good shut off valve at the hose bib.  I did not get my hose bib  fully shut-off a few weeks back due to a worn washer inside the hose bib.. next morning I had water at that corner , about 4 feet wide , 20 feet long that ran along side the inner shop wall.
Title: Re: Shop layout ideas
Post by: UGLY OLDS on December 01, 2009, 05:53:27 PM
QuoteThe only thing is........ doesn't anyone have that oozing, dripping, smelly parts washer in the corner some where in your  shop? Any ideas on that on how to make it better?

 Mine is next to the sandblast cabinet..It's clean & seldom used..( It gets cleaned after every "Major Project" ) ..  8)

It has but one MAJOR flaw..... :? ....It has one of those $%^$%^* HORIZONTAL SURFACE COVERS  :!:  :!:  :evil:  :evil:  Yet ANOTHER place to  "pile" things ....  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :roll:



Bob......... :wink:
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Glen on December 01, 2009, 09:27:27 PM
Here is a quick run around my "Tree Fort".....You will proably hate some ideas and maybe you will like others.  there is a row of cabinets along the west wall you cant see.

http://www.hotrodsbyglen.net/shop.html
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Digger on December 01, 2009, 09:59:32 PM
A whole bunch of things came to mind looking at your pictures but I think "WOW!" pretty much sums it up.




P.S.--Showoff (LOL)
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: wvcab on December 02, 2009, 12:55:42 AM
i have a shop that is 20 x 24, and a closed in attached carport 10 x 20(3 sides closed in)on the south side, with a man door in to the main shop area. the carport has concrete floors and houses metal storage rack, tire machine, parts washer, and the sand blast cabinet. i try and do the dirty work out there.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: taxpyer on December 02, 2009, 02:27:01 AM
Damm Glen, I always knew there was a shop around some place like that,,,,,,,, wow. :shock:  Say, how do you like that roll up door?





Quote from: "Glen"Here is a quick run around my "Tree Fort".....You will proably hate some ideas and maybe you will like others.  there is a row of cabinets along the west wall you cant see.

http://www.hotrodsbyglen.net/shop.html
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Glen on December 02, 2009, 08:59:10 AM
I love the shop door.....the height and width are very nice when moving things in and out.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: papastoyss on December 02, 2009, 09:45:54 AM
Quote from: "Glen"Here is a quick run around my "Tree Fort".....You will proably hate some ideas and maybe you will like others.  there is a row of cabinets along the west wall you cant see.

http://www.hotrodsbyglen.net/shop.html
That place is waaay too clean.  HaHa I'm really envious.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: 38HAULR on December 02, 2009, 03:38:41 PM
Those with the clinically laid out sheds,never experience the joy of being re united with something that was "irretrievably lost' :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Frank.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: enjenjo on December 02, 2009, 03:57:03 PM
Sorry I have been gone, I was out throwing rocks at my shop. :roll:
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Charlie Chops 1940 on December 02, 2009, 04:05:08 PM
After that tour of Glen's shop I'm just gonna lock mine up and throw away the key. Although I do have admit I like 38HAULR's attitude and guess I'll adopt it. Appropriate useage fees to follow.

Charlie
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: phat rat on December 02, 2009, 05:11:42 PM
Quote from: "38HAULR"Those with the clinically laid out sheds,never experience the joy of being re united with something that was "irretrievably lost' :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Frank.

You mean you sometimes actually find those lost things? :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: river1 on December 02, 2009, 05:33:18 PM
Quote from: "phat rat"
Quote from: "38HAULR"Those with the clinically laid out sheds,never experience the joy of being re united with something that was "irretrievably lost' :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Frank.

You mean you sometimes actually find those lost things? :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

eventually, normally while looking for something else :lol:  :lol:
or after buying the replacement item


later jim
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: UGLY OLDS on December 02, 2009, 06:06:00 PM
Quote
Quote from: "Glen"Here is a quick run around my "Tree Fort".....You will proably hate some ideas and maybe you will like others.  there is a row of cabinets along the west wall you cant see.

http://www.hotrodsbyglen.net/shop.html


Nice photos Glen ...Now show us where you REALLY work.... :?     :lol:


Bob.............. :wink:
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Glen on December 02, 2009, 08:11:22 PM
Ok...obviously its not always that clean...I did pick up before taking the pictures.  
But, I dont do any grinding in the shop.  I usually grind outside or if its a big project I will take it to work and use the shop there.  Once I had the bandsaws, I never used the chop saw again.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: taxpyer on December 04, 2009, 06:46:04 PM
One of the reasons I am so thankful for everyones input is because I'm due for a change, As you can see, and so I've built a new shop not wanting to have this happen again. :lol:



Quote from: "Glen"Ok...obviously its not always that clean...I did pick up before taking the pictures.  
But, I dont do any grinding in the shop.  I usually grind outside or if its a big project I will take it to work and use the shop there.  Once I had the bandsaws, I never used the chop saw again.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: taxpyer on December 04, 2009, 06:58:48 PM
Ok, OK just an old barn find here,,,,,,,, believe it or not there is this old buick and two T pickups in there.


Quote from: "taxpyer"One of the reasons I am so thankful for everyones input is because I'm due for a change, As you can see, and so I've built a new shop not wanting to have this happen again. :lol:



Quote from: "Glen"Ok...obviously its not always that clean...I did pick up before taking the pictures.  
But, I dont do any grinding in the shop.  I usually grind outside or if its a big project I will take it to work and use the shop there.  Once I had the bandsaws, I never used the chop saw again.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Harry on December 04, 2009, 11:05:17 PM
Where in BC are you?
I'm on the Island.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: taxpyer on December 04, 2009, 11:19:24 PM
I live in the southern interior. Lillooet country, where we can't log the mountains any more so we let them burn.
This old shed was incredible. Full of cars and time. All the old tools scattered all over and two  Model T pickups completely disasembled in the corner. Engines, wheels with the frames standing up against the back wall. I believe the Buick is late 20's :roll:


Quote from: "Harry"Where in BC are you?
I'm on the Island.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: DLHCC on December 09, 2009, 12:31:30 AM
as far as the compresser goes it can be wired to a contacter switch , then it will only have power when the lights are on
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Grandadeo on December 09, 2009, 10:56:02 PM
Hey, this garage cleaning is OTAY.  Today I found the pitman arm and steering joint for the Toyota box in my F-1 that I bought from No Limit  on one of the recent trips to the Roadster Show.  Like two or three years ago.

Lee
Title: Shop Ideas
Post by: taxpyer on December 10, 2009, 01:47:41 AM
I've built myself a "safe" box. :idea:  It's literally a trunk size box about 4w x 2h x 2d  and  it's the "safe" place where I put the things I don't want to lose. 8)  When one is full then I'll build another. :D  I have lost soooo many things over the years putting them some place "safe" where I won't lose them and then never seeing them again. :shock:
Title: Re: Shop Ideas
Post by: enjenjo on December 10, 2009, 01:49:50 AM
Quote from: "taxpyer"I've built myself a "safe" box. :idea:  It's literally a trunk size box about 4w x 2h x 2d  and  it's the "safe" place where I put the things I don't want to lose. 8)  When one is full then I'll build another. :D  I have lost soooo many things over the years putting them some place "safe" where I won't lose them and then never seeing them again. :shock:

Iake a look, and see if my Buick exhaust manifolds are in there. :roll:
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Grandadeo on December 10, 2009, 09:01:13 AM
Frank. I think I found them yesterday.  No, sorry, those are for my 215 aluminum Olds.

Lee
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: enjenjo on December 10, 2009, 11:23:39 AM
Quote from: "Grandadeo"Frank. I think I found them yesterday.  No, sorry, those are for my 215 aluminum Olds.

Lee

I have been looking for them for over a year now. I should be finding them any time now, since I repaired another pair and have installed them.
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: taxpyer on December 12, 2009, 03:35:45 AM
Hate to say it but I found a brand new antenna for a 72 Datsun pick up still in the box that I put away in 1986 :oops:  :shock:  oh well. The box I had it in had several other things in it but the worst part is I can't remember what they were for. :?
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: Crosley.In.AZ on December 12, 2009, 09:50:59 AM
Quote from: "taxpyer"Hate to say it but I found a brand new antenna for a 72 Datsun pick up still in the box that I put away in 1986 :oops:  :shock:  oh well. The box I had it in had several other things in it but the worst part is I can't remember what they were for. :?

eBay item...  NOS part , restoration  8)
Title: Shop layout ideas
Post by: UGLY OLDS on December 12, 2009, 10:32:38 AM
When we moved from the "City" to the suburbs in 1975 a packed box was mistakenly placed in a corner of the attic of the new house.. :(D)   When we moved to the "country" in 1992 it was found & now resides in a corner of our current attic.... 8)  

 If we ever re-locate it may be opened at that time ... :roll:  I know its not cash & we never missed anything , soooooo........ :lol:  :lol:

Bob..... :wink: