The Rodding Roundtable
Motorhead Message Central => Rodder's Roundtable => Topic started by: WZ JUNK on May 06, 2009, 12:11:41 PM
What year did GM begin placing the ignition switch on the column ? I am needing to guess what year the column I have is so that I can get an aftermarket steering wheel assembly. I am concerned about the horn hook up. This one apparently did not use the common pig tail to hook up the horn.
John
I know that 67 Caddy was on the dash & a 68 was on the column. Dont know about the rest of the GMs.
some in 68, some in 69. Trucks changed in 73 Are you sure you have everything? As far as I know, they are all the same back into the early 60s as far as the horn goes. If you are using a late wheel on a 67 or earlier column, you have to use a seperate horn contact/turn signal cam.
I'm thinking '68. I think the new style Chevy Novas had locking columns when they started in '68 and I had a '69 that had one. One thing that might further lock in the year, To pull the key tumbler out of the early ones there was a clip coming out of the tumbler that you could depress by putting something in a slot under the steering wheel and steering lock disc. After about '75 you had to pull the steering wheel and that steering lock disc and remove a philips screw to get the key tumbler out. Remembering (maybe) the start of this question. The horn on S10s I think is the tan and light green wires in the direction signal harness. I changed the column to a tilt column on my project and I pulled the switches before I junked the rest of the old column. Looking at the switch in a box I think that's the way it is. GPster
The tan, and light green wires are key=in-lock warning buzzer. The horn wire is black. 68 Camaro still had the key in the dash, but most other models change.
I'll learn to quit trying to help. I thought he was still working on his S10 and was trying to gather parts going by Crosley's suggestion. I went to see if I still had an extra switch and I looked at the directional swithch and thought those wires went to some kind of feeler contact. GPster
Quotekind of feeler contact. GPster
They do. the contacts they go to are attached to the switch, and closed with a key in the ignition. When you open a door, that powers up a buzzer to let you know the key is in the ignition.
Maybe a picture will help.
Thanks to all of the replys so far.
John
that steering wheel was used in a lot of various early 70's gm cars and trucks depending on the diameter...
it uses a spring and a flanged rod held into the turn signal cam to contact the weird tin cup that is held down with 3 screws through an insulator... with a wave spring below it...
the turn signal cam below it is the same as all the others... the pin does pop out if you depress the plastic retainer and turn it 45 degrees left.. like taking out a turn signal bulb...
i clipped a few images to help out...
oh.. don't throw out that wheel... put it back together.. market it by its diameter and color... bag the horn contact which is the second image below..
hope this helps you ...
wayne...
ps.. and a tip... if anybody ever ends up with a broken tab that holds these horn contact in.. you can with a small sharp drill in a drill motor add to the slot that got broken out... it will get you through in a pinch...
how about some more pictures...
just for everybody who reads this post...
i have been called in to put a bunch of these back together after somebody took them apart...
Wayne thanks for all the information. That is the steering wheel assembly that I have.
This site is incredible.
John
Hi John...
'78 - '82 GM full sized vans also had the Ign switch on the dash. They also were tilt style, and had the cruise contol on the column. I've managed to scrounge several of these up over the years. I have one in the '38 Coupe, and one also in the '54 PU...
Gud Luk....
The wiring connector may also be a guide.
From what I can find out, the 3 7/8" wide connector was used from 1969 to 1974 and the 4 1/4" wide connector used in later models without the ignition switch.
If anyone can update this, please let us all know.
Canuck
Quote from: "Canuck"The wiring connector may also be a guide.
From what I can find out, the 3 7/8" wide connector was used from 1969 to 1974 and the 4 1/4" wide connector used in later models without the ignition switch.
If anyone can update this, please let us all know.
Canuck
Thanks for the info on the connector. My problem is that someone had cut the connector off. I added another one back. I did notice that the wiring color code for these wires was slightly different than others I have worked on. It was close enough that I could figure it out.
John
If it is any help, I was told that the column I have is a 72 Van (?).
The Tilt and Turn signal knobs are pebbled and rubbery. The shift know if smooth hard plastic.
The wiring runs in a metal channel along the bottom of the column.
The wiring connector is:
G = Black
H = Light Blue
J = Dark Blue
K = Brown
L = Purple
M = Yellow
N = Green
P = White
The first 4 wire are bonded together and the second 4 are bonded together.
THis is all original GM.
Hopefully this will help with the ID. I am going thru the same thing here.
Canuck
there is one more thing...
once in a while on higher end models... you will find that the normally empty connections on the turn signal switch connector have 3 wires in it..
that is for the cornering lights.... these are usually 1156 bulbs in the sides of the front fenders that light up the area you are turning into ... also lets people know that you are planning on moving your tuna boat in that direction..
switched power up one of the wires... the other 2 feed the lights individually.. there is not a lot of amps drawn by a single 1156 bulb.. so if you want to use them for some brighter bulbs.. you might want to use a relay for both sides...
when installing or removing the turn signal switch harness... it comes out with a little doing.. you do have to drop a few parts and remove the plastic wire cover/guide that stops the gear shifter bowl from cutting into the harness and shorting things out... i usually tape the one end of the connector to the flat ribbon of wiring harness.. then with a long skinny screwdriver work it out... with tilt columns.. you do have to work the tilt sometimes to get a proper angle to feed them through... but it is far easier than chopping and splicing them....
when a turn signal problem pops it head up.. turn signal switches do not have to be installed to test the cars wiring... just plug in one who's plug matches...
and for those with jaguars... and the bulb failure light pops up on the dash and won't go away... resoldering the relay boxes internal circuit boards will usually make it go out...
Maybe this will help:
88 GM column wiring
E - tan from drivers door switch" for key buzzer ground with door open
F -Light green from "key in ign switch" warning buzzer
G - black to horn switch
H- Light blue to left front turn signal and left turn dash indicator
J - Dark Blue to right front turn signal and right turn dash indicator
K - Brown from hazard flasher
L - Purple from turn flasher
M - Yellow to left rear turn signal/brake light bulb
N - Dark Green to right rear turn signal/brake light bulb
P - White from brake light switch
I have the same problem.....only I took it apart sooooo many years ago that I forget how it goes together. Does the bellville washer go in with the cone up or down? Any other pics that are clearer? I don't have the single round horn button, but a large ring which follows two spokes and around the wheel center. 66 Chevelle.
Quote from: "enjenjo"some in 68, some in 69. Trucks changed in 73 Are you sure you have everything? As far as I know, they are all the same back into the early 60s as far as the horn goes. If you are using a late wheel on a 67 or earlier column, you have to use a seperate horn contact/turn signal cam.
To be precise: all GM cars sold in the USA had the ignition switch on the column by the 1969 model year with the exception of the Corvair.
And 1970; Ford, AMC, Chrysler, etc. also moved their keys to the steering column.
Now for weird: those few RHD 1969 American based GM cars sold in RSA and Australia had their ignitions on the dash.
Everything else I did today went bad so I thought I would get back to this.
I opened up today. This is what I found. No cancelling cam. So I will have to make a guess as to which one it needs. It did have a thin rubber gasket that covered this area.
The Grant tech info is no help at all. I am just shooting in the dark until I find one of their adapters that will work.
John
just a question.... was the cir clip, the lock plate and the turn signal cam missing???? how about the big spring on the shaft....
i would be that it takes the white one... if you have to replace it....
but if you need the other parts.... you will need to get to the junk yard.. or a column repair guy... there are a lot of them now a days...
got a side view of the splines where the steering wheel fits on... ones with a groove around the middle have metric threads on the steering shaft...
how many bolts holes on your steering wheel... big in the middle.. and three or a big circle with tiny screws like 5, 6, 7 ,holding it to the adaptor..
post a picture of your steering wheel hub.. i will look up the grant catalog and get you a proper part number...
EDIT... looks like a grant 3196 fits from 69 to 94 chevys might be a good place to start...
end edit
take a photograph of the parts that came off after the wheel ...
i have seen on some columns.. a spring steel wire ring that doubles as the turn signal cam.. and the horn contact rubs on a brass circular contact on the back of the wheel...
more pictures please...
wayne...
i was surfing looking for more data..
the steering wheels with more than 3 holes.. take adaptors like the ones listed on this yahoo page..
http://shopping.yahoo.com/t-Steering-Wheels/spacer
the grant part number 2001 is also a neat thing... you get out and take the steering wheel with you... makes it easy to work under the dash also.... and when the significant other tells you that she can drive better... unlatch it and hand her the wheel.... :lol:
Quote from: wayne pettyjust a question.... was the cir clip, the lock plate and the turn signal cam missing???? how about the big spring on the shaft....
Since this is not a locking column, I did not think it would have had the locking plate. I may be wrong on this.
I have a Grant 3196 but I think I may need a Grant 3162
What do you think of this mess? The picture is of what I had once I removed the steering wheel.
I attached a picture of my steering column junk pile.
What you have there is a van, or pre 73 pickup column. I'll see if I can find the parts you need in my stash, and take a picture. The white cam will work, and fits over the heavy spring over the shaft . Under the spring should be the upper bearing inner race, and a wedge washer to hold it in place. There should be a collar on the bottom of the column shaft that keeps the shaft from coming up too far.
a picture is worth a dozen posts........
It looks like I need a Grant #3163 adapter. I will pick it up and the white cam this morning.
Frank, I will see what else is missing.
John
looking at the used column pile.... i bet that a turn signal cam is in the black housing laying on the ground with out a steering wheel...
when you mentioned.. what year was the key in the column.. i figured it was a locking column.. i did not look close...
i just thought i would save you a trip to the junk yard with stuff that you already have...
Quote from: "wayne petty"looking at the used column pile.... i bet that a turn signal cam is in the black housing laying on the ground with out a steering wheel...
when you mentioned.. what year was the key in the column.. i figured it was a locking column.. i did not look close...
i just thought i would save you a trip to the junk yard with stuff that you already have...
I used the white turn signal cam, the #3196 Grant adapter. I put it together today and it works.
Thanks for the help.
Grant steering wheels are not my favorite for sure.
John